Gabe Newell calls the PS3 a 'total disaster'

[Bateluer]

Text

Harsh, claims Sony should do a total do-over.

 

[flyboy84]

Ouch

Can't help but crack a grin though

 

[Sureshot324]

Sony lawsuites against Valve in 3...2..1...

 

[CKent]

Burn in hell, Sony.

 

[Kromis]

Originally posted by: CKent
Burn in hell, Sony.

Sony bashing already? Hell yeah!

 

[Lonyo]

Then on to the topic of multi-core gaming systems. Carmack has expressed his dislike for multi-cores, but with the two high-powered new generation consoles both making use of multiple cores, it may be something he just has to deal with. He says of the Xbox 360: ?Microsoft has made some pretty nice tools that show you what you can make on the Xbox 360 [with the multi-cores] ? but the fundamental problem is that it?s still hard to do. If you want to utilize all of that unused performance, it?s going to become more of a risk to you and bring pain and suffering to the programming side,? he laments. ?So we?re dealing with it, but it?s an aspect of the landscape that obviously would have been better if we would have been able to get more gigahertz in a processor core. But life didn?t turn out like that, and we have to just take the best advantage with it.?

As far as the PlayStation 3 goes, Carmack isn?t thrilled at the lack of developer support in comparison to what he?s received from Microsoft. Nevertheless, he plans to support Sony?s console with his next generation engine and games. ?We?ve got our PlayStation 3 dev kits, and we?ve got our code compiling on it. I do intend to do a simultaneous release on it. But the honest truth is that Microsoft dev tools are so much better than Sony?s,? he comments. ?I think the decision to use an asymmetric CPU by Sony was a wrong one. There are aspects that could make it a winning decision, but they?re not helpful to the developers ? It?s not like the PlayStation 3 is a piece of junk or anything. I was not a fan of the PlayStation 2 and the way its architecture was set up. With the PlayStation 3, it?s not even that it?s ugly--they just took a design decision that wasn?t the best from a development standpoint.?

 

[Schadenfroh]

gaben knows so much


hehehe

 

[shortylickens]

Not a Gabe fan or anything but this is pretty much what I've been saying since it came out.

Remake the thing and sell it MUCH cheaper, also wait a year while some good games come out. Then it will be a success.

 

[apoppin]

It's a different story with Nintendo, however, Newell revealing he really likes "everything that Nintendo is doing."

"The happy story is the Wii," he said. "I'm betting that by Christmas of next year, the Wii has a larger installed base than the 360. Other people think I'm crazy."

i agree . . . :Q



. . . he's crazy

 

[VIAN]

I think Episode Gaming sucks.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Then on to the topic of multi-core gaming systems. Carmack has expressed his dislike for multi-cores, but with the two high-powered new generation consoles both making use of multiple cores, it may be something he just has to deal with. He says of the Xbox 360: ?Microsoft has made some pretty nice tools that show you what you can make on the Xbox 360 [with the multi-cores] ? but the fundamental problem is that it?s still hard to do. If you want to utilize all of that unused performance, it?s going to become more of a risk to you and bring pain and suffering to the programming side,? he laments. ?So we?re dealing with it, but it?s an aspect of the landscape that obviously would have been better if we would have been able to get more gigahertz in a processor core. But life didn?t turn out like that, and we have to just take the best advantage with it.?

As far as the PlayStation 3 goes, Carmack isn?t thrilled at the lack of developer support in comparison to what he?s received from Microsoft. Nevertheless, he plans to support Sony?s console with his next generation engine and games. ?We?ve got our PlayStation 3 dev kits, and we?ve got our code compiling on it. I do intend to do a simultaneous release on it. But the honest truth is that Microsoft dev tools are so much better than Sony?s,? he comments. ?I think the decision to use an asymmetric CPU by Sony was a wrong one. There are aspects that could make it a winning decision, but they?re not helpful to the developers ? It?s not like the PlayStation 3 is a piece of junk or anything. I was not a fan of the PlayStation 2 and the way its architecture was set up. With the PlayStation 3, it?s not even that it?s ugly--they just took a design decision that wasn?t the best from a development standpoint.?

Generally speaking, more complicated APIs (meaning they make it easier to develop tough methods with fewer lines of code) lead to less efficient code and lower performance. I wouldn't really think that Carmack's thoughts on the PS3 relate to the average gamer's experience at all. More work for the developers, yes, but in the end they'll produce a better, more efficient compiled product.

 

[hdeck]

because gabe really knows what the consumer wants

 

[DaveSimmons]

Of course Gabe lied as badly as Sony during HL2 development about the reasons for delays.

Instead of admitting they were still many months away from having a finished game, it was "we have to make, uh, changes because the source was stolenzed!!!"

Maybe he really means "we're not as smart as Carmack so our brains hurt. With wii our old Gamecube code still works fine, yay! Gimme some pie!!!!!"

Just a theory

 

[bcterps]

The PS3 has been a disaster so far, but it's way too early to write it off completely. Valve has never been a huge proponent of console games to begin with, it's not surprising he doesn't like the PS3, but Gabe's comments about scrapping the system are pretty idiotic IMO.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

You know with all these people hating on the PS3, I should voice my experience here. I have both systems and all the best games, and I have to say that the 360 & Gears of War/Lost Planet/etc have not been played in a couple of days while Resistance in part of my nightly rotation, which includes Quake4 on the PC. Guess I am one of those wierd people who want a challenge.

 

[WelshBloke]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Of course Gabe lied as badly as Sony during HL2 development about the reasons for delays.

Instead of admitting they were still many months away from having a finished game, it was "we have to make, uh, changes because the source was stolenzed!!!"

Maybe he really means "we're not as smart as Carmack so our brains hurt. With wii our old Gamecube code still works fine, yay! Gimme some pie!!!!!"

Just a theory

Carmack has said similar things, more tempered, but similar.

LINK


Gabe Newell

"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think It's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted," Newell reportedly said in an interview with Game Informer.

John Carmack

? It?s not like the PlayStation 3 is a piece of junk or anything. I was not a fan of the PlayStation 2 and the way its architecture was set up. With the PlayStation 3, it?s not even that it?s ugly--they just took a design decision that wasn?t the best from a development standpoint.?

 

[DaveSimmons]

See Lonyo carmackquotes above too.

I was, like Gabe, exaggerating for comic effect

 

[Queasy]

Newell and his developers are trying to develop a code base that automatically scales when using multiple processors to make things easier for developers. This works fine for things like dual-core/quad-core/X-core PCs and even the Xbox360 but, according to Newell, it is an extreme PITA to get it to work on the PS3 with its single processor and 7 SPEs.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Of course Gabe lied as badly as Sony during HL2 development about the reasons for delays.

Instead of admitting they were still many months away from having a finished game, it was "we have to make, uh, changes because the source was stolenzed!!!"

Maybe he really means "we're not as smart as Carmack so our brains hurt. With wii our old Gamecube code still works fine, yay! Gimme some pie!!!!!"

Just a theory

Yeah, considering his totally botched handling of the HL2 delays he probably should keep his fat trap shut on this one. Thats not to say I totally disagree with him.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
You know with all these people hating on the PS3, I should voice my experience here. I have both systems and all the best games, and I have to say that the 360 & Gears of War/Lost Planet/etc have not been played in a couple of days while Resistance in part of my nightly rotation, which includes Quake4 on the PC. Guess I am one of those wierd people who want a challenge.

you are one of those few people that can afford a $600

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Carmack & Newell, creators of two of the most revolutionary FPS games (and game engines) in PC history both think something is fundamentally wrong with the PS3? Ouch. This can not be good.

They say it takes time for developers to fully extract a consoles potential. I am assuming this means PS3 titles will take that much longer to look as good as they can.

BTW, I am surprised no one has mentioned Newell is a former Microsoft employee yet.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Carmack & Newell, creators of two of the most revolutionary FPS games (and game engines) in PC history both think something is fundamentally wrong with the PS3? Ouch. This can not be good.

They say it takes time for developers to fully extract a consoles potential. I am assuming this means PS3 titles will take that much longer to look as good as they can.

BTW, I am surprised no one has mentioned Newell is a former Microsoft employee yet.

i didn't know
:Q

thanks for mentioning it ... and he probably has nintendo stock

Considering his Engine is the Most Primitive of the Modern Game Engines, he is one to talk



can't they get a working flashlight yet ... with interactive shadows
:roll:

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Carmack & Newell, creators of two of the most revolutionary FPS games (and game engines) in PC history both think something is fundamentally wrong with the PS3? Ouch. This can not be good.

They say it takes time for developers to fully extract a consoles potential. I am assuming this means PS3 titles will take that much longer to look as good as they can.

BTW, I am surprised no one has mentioned Newell is a former Microsoft employee yet.

i didn't know
:Q

thanks for mentioning it ... and he probably has nintendo stock

Considering his Engine is the Most Primitive of the Modern Game Engines, he is one to talk



can't they get a working flashlight yet ... with interactive shadows
:roll:

When HL2 first came out, putting in full interactive shadows in a game would severly limit level design. That's why Doom 3 only had cramped indoor areas with much less detail than HL2's levels. That is still true today to a lesser extent. Games usually cheat by only having certain objects cast shadows. In any case, when HL2 episode 2 comes out they will have a much better lighting/shadows model, and every source engine game will be upgraded to take advantage of this.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Carmack & Newell, creators of two of the most revolutionary FPS games (and game engines) in PC history both think something is fundamentally wrong with the PS3? Ouch. This can not be good.

They say it takes time for developers to fully extract a consoles potential. I am assuming this means PS3 titles will take that much longer to look as good as they can.

BTW, I am surprised no one has mentioned Newell is a former Microsoft employee yet.

i didn't know
:Q

thanks for mentioning it ... and he probably has nintendo stock

Considering his Engine is the Most Primitive of the Modern Game Engines, he is one to talk



can't they get a working flashlight yet ... with interactive shadows
:roll:

When HL2 first came out, putting in full interactive shadows in a game would severly limit level design. That's why Doom 3 only had cramped indoor areas with much less detail than HL2's levels. That is still true today to a lesser extent. Games usually cheat by only having certain objects cast shadows. In any case, when HL2 episode 2 comes out they will have a much better lighting/shadows model, and every source engine game will be upgraded to take advantage of this.

i may not have know about MS and Gabe but i did know of their lame *excuses*

and *nonsense* on the D3 engine's 'limitations' ... look at Quake 4 or PREY ...
it is miles ahead of that Creaky Source Engine ...

at the very least those Source guys have neither acknowledged nor completely fixed their Engine's ssssStutter ... it is present in DM M&M



and when is Ep2 due? late again for a 3 hour Episode? ... think they can keep their Source code secure?

sure, "gabe knows"

anyway, he is a lot more to make fun of than Carmack

 

[ChaoZ]

Don't worry Sony, I still love you.