G70

[BlingBlingArsch]

http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/index_e.php

Nvidia sucks. ATI rules. So easy.

 

[Killrose]

Welcome to last week :roll: there are already three other threads around here with the same info.

 

[VIAN]

This is very old news. Like - so 4 days ago, or something.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1666756&enterthread=y

 

[Rage187]

Repost of a repost of a repost of a repost, try using the search function Sherlock.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

is that all u have to say?

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: pulsedrive

Originally posted by: M0RPH
Neither one. You should wait for ATI's R520. The 7800GT has image quality problems that nobody should be willing to accept from a $400 card.

Uhm, yeah, either back up your claims, or STFU.

I was getting tired of pointing out the links, since nobody around here seems to have the attention span to read any of the discussions anyways. If you actually read this forum you would have seen it by now, but here ya go:


Beyond3D
HardForum
AnandTech

3DCenter

Conclusion

ATI, with its Radeon X800, shows: Even with activated "optimizations" (meaning quality reduction), there are no shimmering textures. While there is no full trilinear filtering used, this can not be noticed so quickly. Even though ATI's texture filtering hardware does not compute as exactly as a GeForces', the overall image quality is better, for there are not as many questionable "optimizations." Angle dependency when using AF, however, should not be considered as a feature of modern graphic cards any more, ATI's advertising speaking of "High Definition" gaming can thus be seen as an unfulfilled promise straight from the marketing department. At least, ATI shows that the scene in the video does not have to include texture shimmering.

Nvidia, with its current 7800 series, offers graphic cards that can not be recommended to lovers of texture quality?even though texel performance was increased by a factor of 2.5 compared to the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra! Added to the angle dependency (inspired by ATI's R300), there is now the tendency to texture shimmering in addition. The GeForce 6800 (or GeForce 6600) has to be configured to use "High Quality" to circumvent texture shimmering as much as possible. With the 7800, this seems to be useless; even when using "High Quality", the new chip tends to texture shimmering. The old Nvidia GeForce FX shows nearly perfect textures, though.

The quoted passages from Nvidia's Reviewer's Guide can be easily disproved. That means: All benchmarks using standard settings, no matter if GeForce 7800 or 6800, versus a Radeon, are wrong: Nvidia offers, at this time, the by far worse AF quality. Radeon standard settings are better (speaking in terms of image quality) than 6800 standard settings, whilst the 7800's standard settings are even worse. Thus, the so called "performance" should not be compared either. One should also not compare 7800 standard vs. 6800 standard or 7800 HQ vs 6800 HQ, since the 7800's texture quality is lower. Real "performance" includes on-screen image quality. (Otherwise, why bother to have and benchmark with AF at all? Should an AF implementation just have only minimal impact on the rendering speed or should it result in greatly improved textures?)

What advantage do you have of 16x AF if you get 2x AF at maximum at certain angles only, are exposed to texture shimmering while other cards provide flicker-free textures? All benchmarks using the standard setting for NV40 and G70 against the Radeon are invalid, because the Nvidia cards are using general undersampling which can (and does) result in texture shimmering. We know and love GeForce 7 for the Tranparency Antialiasing and the high-performance implementation of SM3 features, but the GeForce 7 series cannot be configured to deliver flicker-free AF textures while the GeForce 6 series and the Radeon series can (of course) render flicker-free AF quality.

If there should be any changes with new driver versions, we will try to keep our readers up-to-date.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

if u look at the forum ull see ppl suggesting g70 like crazy. they seem to not have heard of that topic...but okay, mod can close this thread if this is such old news.

 

[Rage187]

video forum needs to be just like the cpu forum, any flame wars(Nv vs. Ati) = bans. We should start w/ this thread and ban the OP for blatantly trying to start one.

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch


Nvidia sucks. ATI rules. So easy.

The complaint charges ATI, Kwok Yuen Ho, David E. Orton and Patrick G. Crowley with violations of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. More specifically, the Complaint alleges that the Company failed to disclose and misrepresented the following material adverse facts which were known to defendants or recklessly disregarded by them: (1) that the Company substantially relied on its high-end offerings to fund other parts of its business; (2) that the Company's high-end offerings failed to offset the negative impact of weak gross margins and declining average sales prices in consumer electronics; (3) that the Company, due to production and design issues, was late to the market with its R520 chip, thereby losing market share to both Nvidia Corp. and Intel Corp. which caused downward pricing pressure for ATI; (4) that the Company's inventory levels were at a historic high, while current sales levels were insufficient to support the existing cost base; and (5) that the defendants' positive statements about the Company's progress and future growth lacked in all reasonable basis.

there are about 75 lawyers going after Ati for a number of things listed above, Nvidia may suck but Ati is in a sh!t load of trouble.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

Originally posted by: Rage187
video forum needs to be just like the cpu forum, any flame wars(Nv vs. Ati) = bans. We should start w/ this thread and ban the OP for blatantly trying to start one.

obviously uve not been to the CPU forum lately, have u? With ur ban rules the forum was dead already .

 

[MBrown]

I dont understand what simmering textures is fully. The article doesnt explain it well. Can somebody explain what it is in different words?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/index_e.php

Nvidia sucks. ATI rules. So easy.

1. The "horrible shimmering" is barely noticeable when you look for it.
2. Enjoy your "ruling" :beer:

 

[impemonk]

whoawhaowhoahwo SHHIMMARRING YOU SAY?! like I give a damn... hahahahahaha. Seriously people: ITS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. If I see a small dent in my car am I going to shun it off and say it sucks? Big whoop life is beautiful please move on

 

[Acanthus]

I hope they fix it in an up and coming driver release.

But its not nearly as bad as anyone makes it out to be.

 

[BlingBlingArsch]

Just curious how Nvidia tries to fool ppl. G70 has reduced picture quality to get higher fps in benchmarks. If u call it a fair deal for more than 400$, have it your way, u will be the king of benchmarks, but do u like the shimmering? not me, sir.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
Just curious how Nvidia tries to fool ppl. G70 has reduced picture quality to get higher fps in benchmarks. If u call it a fair deal for more than 400$, have it your way, u will be the king of benchmarks, but do u like the shimmering? not me, sir.

STFU Troll.

They didn't lie, nor did they reduce quality from the 6 series. Stop making things out worse than they are.

There is supposedly, SLIGHT texture shimmering. As Rollo said, you REALLY have to look for it to notice it. You are making out like the whole screen is suffering from Vertical Tearing or something.

:thumbsup: to Acanthus. I agree 100%. To update the situation, Nvidia has promised a fix to this shimmering in the upcoming Rel. 80 Drivers.

-Kevin

 

[imported_Kensai]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
Just curious how Nvidia tries to fool ppl. G70 has reduced picture quality to get higher fps in benchmarks. If u call it a fair deal for more than 400$, have it your way, u will be the king of benchmarks, but do u like the shimmering? not me, sir.

STFU Troll.

They didn't lie, nor did they reduce quality from the 6 series. Stop making things out worse than they are.

There is supposedly, SLIGHT texture shimmering. As Rollo said, you REALLY have to look for it to notice it. You are making out like the whole screen is suffering from Vertical Tearing or something.

:thumbsup: to Acanthus. I agree 100%. To update the situation, Nvidia has promised a fix to this shimmering in the upcoming Rel. 80 Drivers.

-Kevin

Nice.. I can't wait for those Rel. 80 drives..

 

[Gamingphreek]

Same here... even though i have "the KING OF IQ" (5900XT) lol.

But yeah. For those drivers i plan on writing a full review with screenshots and everything in the drivers thread.

If/When ATI comes out with a major driver release ill do one for them too (Just in case anyone got any ideas that i only do that crap for Nvidia cards).

-Kevin

 

[5150Joker]

LOL - honestly the only game I get major shimmering in is CSS. Every other game is acceptable for now. BTW nVidia is puportedly working on a fix for the shimmering.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
I hope they fix it in an up and coming driver release.

But its not nearly as bad as anyone makes it out to be.

Nvidia fan = "You really have to look for it to even barely see any shimmering if it is even there at all."

ATI fan = "It's so bad, it hurts my eyes and gives me headaches if I look at my screen for more than 10 minutes."

Which one are you BlingBling! LMAO!!!!!!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
LOL - honestly the only game I get major shimmering in is CSS. Every other game is acceptable for now. BTW nVidia is puportedly working on a fix for the shimmering.

Joker, even if nvidia does release a driver cure for this "shimmering", it will not satisfy everyone. Even if the problem goes completely away. People will say, "Well, what about G70's shimmering problem?" and you can answer them with, "But nvidia released a driver that fixed that problem!" and they would say, "Well, that doesn't change the fact that they still had the problem.".

It's a lost cause man.
Nvidia's PVP on 6800's, now that was a problem that never went away for the people who bought one intending to utilize it.
I remember 2 9500pros and a 9700 that I owned and they all had shimmering and banding problems. Drivers helped get rid of that.

 

[mindgam3]

Mabye if they spent more time working on the card and drivers so they could sell us consumers a finished product like ATI is currently doing with there new cards they wouldnt have this horrific mess!!! LOL

 

[ronnn]

The shimmering may or may not be a big deal, but lets hope Nvidia's new wonder driver fixes this. Nvidia has at times not delivered with these drivers. :beer:

(ducks and hides as a nvidia fanboy-moderator yells stfu!)

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: mindgam3
Mabye if they spent more time working on the card and drivers so they could sell us consumers a finished product like ATI is currently doing with there new cards they wouldnt have this horrific mess!!! LOL

My sarcasm detector is broken. Were you serious?

 

[mindgam3]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: mindgam3
Mabye if they spent more time working on the card and drivers so they could sell us consumers a finished product like ATI is currently doing with there new cards they wouldnt have this horrific mess!!! LOL

My sarcasm detector is broken. Were you serious?

Nah just tossing a bit more fuel to the fire !

 

[Rage187]

^ way to volunteer to be the video forum asshat.