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G70 & R520 I am bummed out.

I

Intelia

Banned
Yep these 2 cards are fast really fast so fast infact that . To get everthing there is in them, out of them. I need to buy these things to justify buying them.
1) I new cpu that doesn'i bottle them. (This cpu doesn't exist. there is 1 but I won't go there)
2) A new motherboard to support the new Cpu.(ATI new motherboard period)
3) A new LCD to support the extremely high res.needed to show case there power.(my lcd is 1280x 1024 native and thats were it has best results.
4) Basicly the truth is. To really make these things work you need a whole new system that for all intent purposes doesn't even exist. Ya I am bummed
 
Glad to see you have inside intel on R520. I didnt see any of the benchmarks of the 7800 where it was capped out because of the cpu though. Here's the thing, what the heck do you want? If you dont have a high res monitor that needs a big expensive card to run games playable, then you dont need a big expensive card. What were you whining about again? Its called progress and a year or two down the road, the 7800 may struggle to play the newest games on your 1280x1024 res. Figure out what you need, cut out the "I wanna" and the maketing crap, and be content with the fact that you are not a lemming.
 
I'm tired of seeing comments about the cpu being a bottleneck for the 7800. If the cpu was a bottleneck, then you could play at 16x12 with the same fps as at 10x7, or even 6x4 (LOL...). Obviously this is not the case, so you cant blame it's performance on the cpu. What might be limiting it is either not mature drivers, or the fact that the newest games dont use enough shaders to really stress the gf6, and consequently put more of a gap between the gf6 and the gf7, which is supposed to have almost double the shader power theoretically.

Seeing how the gf7 is more of a revision of the gf6 rather than being a whole new design, you cant put much blame on the drivers -- they had more than a year to develop competent drivers for the gf6 series. I think we may have reached a new level of video game design, where shaders play such a big role that the traditional hardware values like fillrate and bandwidth become less important than how fast the card can do pixel shaders. The trend is that games are becoming increasingly heavy on shaders, and in the future we may see a game that really puts the gf7 ahead of the gf6, but right now such a game apparently doesnt exist.

Anyway, I certainly hope this is the case, because if what we are seeing is as good as the gf7 is gonna get, and the ps3 gfx card is supposed to be based on this, I have an unsettling feeling that I will be disappointed next spring when the ps3 comes out, and while a pc gamer can simply chose a better card for a pc, it will be a much bigger problem in a console.
 
To say a 7800 or better card will be bottle necked by anything but the very top end processor is misleading. Most of the graphics intensive games out there rely much more on the GPU then on the CPU for picture quality and frame rates.

If you look at the few benchmarks run comparing the last generation GPU on lower end CPUs, you'll see even a 1700XP based system gets a big improvment in performance when running a 6800 Ultra versus a 9700 pro, and there is a difference on a lower end CPU based system even going from a 6800 GT to an Ultra.

There are a few older titles that are more CPU reliant, but just about everything people will buy a high end card to run will get a very good gain going from the 6XXX to the 7XXX series.

As far as price versus performance versus CPU restrictions, I would guess anyone running an A64 from the 2800 series or it's pentium equivalent could more then justify going from a 6800Ultra to a 7800. I personally wouldn't now, because I'd rather wait for the R520 to hit market and more varieties of both cards are on market before making an informed decision and take advantage of the price wars.

As far as lower resolutions go, these cards offer more then just more speed on 1600X1200+ settings in these games. Cranking up AA, new features and the like will also affect FPS when comparing GPUs. It's also dependant on the user as well. Some people can't notice the difference between 45 and 90 FPS while another person using the same system will notice a big difference.

Keep in mind LCD prices are dropping fast while the technology is getting better. A $300 19" LCD with 8ms and 700:1 contrast ratio would have exceeded $1500 not too long ago. It won't be long till we see 20" 4ms 1000:1 LCDs in the $300 range.
 
Originally posted by: Intelia
Yep these 2 cards are fast really fast so fast infact that . To get everthing there is in them, out of them. I need to buy these things to justify buying them.
1) I new cpu that doesn'i bottle them. (This cpu doesn't exist. there is 1 but I won't go there)
2) A new motherboard to support the new Cpu.(ATI new motherboard period)
3) A new LCD to support the extremely high res.needed to show case there power.(my lcd is 1280x 1024 native and thats were it has best results.
4) Basicly the truth is. To really make these things work you need a whole new system that for all intent purposes doesn't even exist. Ya I am bummed
Click to expand...

Not true... just run games with max detail with max AA and AF and turn off all driver optimizations... then run the max resolution your monitor supports.

What I like about the 7800 series is the addition of transparency AA... that alone makes it an attractive card. When they come down around $400 I'll probably replace my 6800GT with one.
 
Originally posted by: munky
I'm tired of seeing comments about the cpu being a bottleneck for the 7800. If the cpu was a bottleneck, then you could play at 16x12 with the same fps as at 10x7, or even 6x4 (LOL...). Obviously this is not the case, so you cant blame it's performance on the cpu. What might be limiting it is either not mature drivers, or the fact that the newest games dont use enough shaders to really stress the gf6, and consequently put more of a gap between the gf6 and the gf7, which is supposed to have almost double the shader power theoretically.

Seeing how the gf7 is more of a revision of the gf6 rather than being a whole new design, you cant put much blame on the drivers -- they had more than a year to develop competent drivers for the gf6 series. I think we may have reached a new level of video game design, where shaders play such a big role that the traditional hardware values like fillrate and bandwidth become less important than how fast the card can do pixel shaders. The trend is that games are becoming increasingly heavy on shaders, and in the future we may see a game that really puts the gf7 ahead of the gf6, but right now such a game apparently doesnt exist.

Anyway, I certainly hope this is the case, because if what we are seeing is as good as the gf7 is gonna get, and the ps3 gfx card is supposed to be based on this, I have an unsettling feeling that I will be disappointed next spring when the ps3 comes out, and while a pc gamer can simply chose a better card for a pc, it will be a much bigger problem in a console.
Click to expand...

i dont know what was so disappointing in this launch. just because the 6800U was about 2X the previous generation doesnt mean this one also has to follow suit. infact this card matches and even beats 6800U SLI setups at times, costs much lesser, is cooler(single slot) and takes lesser power....tell me whats disappointing in it?
the RSX GPU is going to be much more powerful than this so i think we reserve judgement for that until its released.
 
Originally posted by: munky
I'm tired of seeing comments about the cpu being a bottleneck for the 7800. If the cpu was a bottleneck, then you could play at 16x12 with the same fps as at 10x7, or even 6x4 (LOL...). Obviously this is not the case, so you cant blame it's performance on the cpu. What might be limiting it is either not mature drivers, or the fact that the newest games dont use enough shaders to really stress the gf6, and consequently put more of a gap between the gf6 and the gf7, which is supposed to have almost double the shader power theoretically.

Seeing how the gf7 is more of a revision of the gf6 rather than being a whole new design, you cant put much blame on the drivers -- they had more than a year to develop competent drivers for the gf6 series. I think we may have reached a new level of video game design, where shaders play such a big role that the traditional hardware values like fillrate and bandwidth become less important than how fast the card can do pixel shaders. The trend is that games are becoming increasingly heavy on shaders, and in the future we may see a game that really puts the gf7 ahead of the gf6, but right now such a game apparently doesnt exist.

Anyway, I certainly hope this is the case, because if what we are seeing is as good as the gf7 is gonna get, and the ps3 gfx card is supposed to be based on this, I have an unsettling feeling that I will be disappointed next spring when the ps3 comes out, and while a pc gamer can simply chose a better card for a pc, it will be a much bigger problem in a console.
Click to expand...

I don't get it Munky!!! Last gen, (GF6 & X800/850) everyone and their long lost grandmammy said the cards were bottlenecked by even the fastest CPU's. AMD included.
So why now is this even being drawn into question with an even FASTER video card than the previously bottlenecked slower cards? I don't get it. Please clear this up for me.

 
Newest cards are bottlenecked in 3dmk01, thats about it. A s754 sempron would push the 7800 just fine in the games/resolutions you would need it for.
 
Originally posted by: Intelia
Yep these 2 cards are fast really fast so fast infact that . To get everthing there is in them, out of them. I need to buy these things to justify buying them.
1) I new cpu that doesn'i bottle them. (This cpu doesn't exist. there is 1 but I won't go there)
2) A new motherboard to support the new Cpu.(ATI new motherboard period)
3) A new LCD to support the extremely high res.needed to show case there power.(my lcd is 1280x 1024 native and thats were it has best results.
4) Basicly the truth is. To really make these things work you need a whole new system that for all intent purposes doesn't even exist. Ya I am bummed
Click to expand...

All I can say is the following:
1) CPU is not your bottleneck unless you have a CPU more then 2 years old... plain and simple. If this is the case, then you should be looking for a CPU upgrade way before you look at getting the latest/greatest graphics card.

2) See #1 above. Yeah, you need a new board if you don't have PCI-E. We knew this was comming 14 months ago...

3) Why on earth are you using an LCD for gaming?!?!?!! It just isn't there yet. IT STILL ISN'T THERE YET! Even if you buy the latest greatest $1000+ LCD screen, you still will not be able to beat the color, black levels, resolution and refresh rates of a good $400 CRT! Ohhhh... you want it because it saves space, or because it is the "latest" technology. Well sorry to break it to you, LCD's still are not up to par even now compaired to the picture quality you will get from a good CRT. I'm still using a Hitachi that has 0.21 mm dot pitch, and 2046 x 1536 max resolution. And this monitor is 3 years old!!! When LCD's finally reach that level, I might consider changing to an LCD.
 
Originally posted by: Intelia
Yep these 2 cards are fast really fast so fast infact that . To get everthing there is in them, out of them. I need to buy these things to justify buying them.
1) I new cpu that doesn'i bottle them. (This cpu doesn't exist. there is 1 but I won't go there)
2) A new motherboard to support the new Cpu.(ATI new motherboard period)
3) A new LCD to support the extremely high res.needed to show case there power.(my lcd is 1280x 1024 native and thats were it has best results.
4) Basicly the truth is. To really make these things work you need a whole new system that for all intent purposes doesn't even exist. Ya I am bummed
Click to expand...

You sound like the guy I was behind in line at the tire store a few years ago.

Dude had a BMW M Roadster and was complaining that his tires only lasted 30k miles. He wanted 70k warranteed tires for $70 each like he had on his other car. The poor guy behind the counter was trying to explain that he bought a sports car with a tire size that ony accommodated high performance Z-Rated tires that do not come with a treadlife warranty, nor are they cheap. I expressed my sympathy when I finally got to speak with the guy behind the counter.

To some extent, you gotta pay to play with the best. That's true anywhere. If you don't want to pay, there are plenty of cheaper cards that will work fine on your system as-is, just your system won't be the best.

Stilll though, at the very least you would gain the new transparent AA features and higher AA/AF options without a performance hit. That has to be worth something doesn't it? Probably not worth the cost of the card, but it's not like it would give NO benefit.
 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

I don't get it Munky!!! Last gen, (GF6 & X800/850) everyone and their long lost grandmammy said the cards were bottlenecked by even the fastest CPU's. AMD included.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't AMD say that things are CPU bottlenecked? They stand nothing to gain if they advertise that CPU is not as important of GPU.

Have you read teh x2 4200+ Overclocking article on AT. It had this to say about the x2 operating at 2.7GHz

Looking closely it is very interesting that two of the most recent games, Doom 3 and Half Life 2, seem to have their performance almost entirely dictated by the graphics card. With the increases in graphics power we tested all games at 1280x1024 where possible. Whether 2.2GHz, 2.4GHz with double the cache, or 2.7GHz, Doom 3 and Half Life 2 performed about the same using the same graphics card at the same 1280x1024 resolution.
Click to expand...

None of these were even close to 60FPS limited by the CPU except potentially UT2004. Current S939 3000+, the cheapest S939 CPU, is pretty much guaranteed to reach a 2.4GHz overclock, and is enough to handle any modern game at least 60FPS average.

Who really cares if a game is CPU "bottlenecked" if it is stuck at 80+ FPS average. I still maintain that a midrange CPU is beyond the needs of pretty much any gamer. I mean, once the CPU can maintain adequate frame rates, there is ZERO benefit for additional CPU power. But a top end GPU can almost always provide benefit in terms of higher AA/AF levels and in the case of the 7800, the new transparent AA feature.
 
Well you pretty much frooze me out. If I say what I think you well acuse me of trolling.
So I will leave it here and thank you for your comments (Both mine and hobbies X800XTpe have been full out sinse they were installed (eye candy maxed) Thats why we bought them and performance gain.
 
Originally posted by: Intelia
Well you pretty much frooze me out. If I say what I think you well acuse me of trolling.
So I will leave it here and thank you for your comments (Both mine and hobbies X800XTpe have been full out sinse they were installed (eye candy maxed) Thats why we bought them and performance gain.
Click to expand...

Dude- I had a X800XT PE, and while it's a nice card, if you think it compares to a 7800GTX- you are trolling.

The 7800GTX makes a X800XT PE look like a Voodoo2.
 
Originally posted by: munky
I'm tired of seeing comments about the cpu being a bottleneck for the 7800. If the cpu was a bottleneck, then you could play at 16x12 with the same fps as at 10x7, or even 6x4 (LOL...). Obviously this is not the case, so you cant blame it's performance on the cpu. What might be limiting it is either not mature drivers, or the fact that the newest games dont use enough shaders to really stress the gf6, and consequently put more of a gap between the gf6 and the gf7, which is supposed to have almost double the shader power theoretically.

Seeing how the gf7 is more of a revision of the gf6 rather than being a whole new design, you cant put much blame on the drivers -- they had more than a year to develop competent drivers for the gf6 series. I think we may have reached a new level of video game design, where shaders play such a big role that the traditional hardware values like fillrate and bandwidth become less important than how fast the card can do pixel shaders. The trend is that games are becoming increasingly heavy on shaders, and in the future we may see a game that really puts the gf7 ahead of the gf6, but right now such a game apparently doesnt exist.

Anyway, I certainly hope this is the case, because if what we are seeing is as good as the gf7 is gonna get, and the ps3 gfx card is supposed to be based on this, I have an unsettling feeling that I will be disappointed next spring when the ps3 comes out, and while a pc gamer can simply chose a better card for a pc, it will be a much bigger problem in a console.
Click to expand...



Uh, actually, while it's not "bottlnecked" per se, the CPU is definitely holding back a 7800GTX these days. The performance you see at 20x15 with AA should make that obvious. Basically, until you get to that level, the CPU is controlling how fast the frames fly, not vice versa.
 
I agree with Insomniak.

Now Intelia, which CPU were you suggesting. I assume based on your previous track record you were going to say the P-EE, which of course is absurd.

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
I agree with Insomniak.

Now Intelia, which CPU were you suggesting. I assume based on your previous track record you were going to say the P-EE, which of course is absurd.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

LOL You best go back and reread my post
never ever ever did I say we would buy and use a P4 P EE not ever. I was going to get David a 3.73 for fathers day so he could play with it and he came unglued P4P is a cuss word in this house hold.

Rollo never once did a say a X800XT PE would be better than a G70 . I put that in my post because people were talking about eye candy turned on . I thought thats why people buy the high end cards thats why we do. Also G70 eye candy is wonderful fact is thats the best thing about it .

David wants me to quit while I am behind . But one more thing . We have 5 G70's arriving tomorrow 2 go into a customers machine 3 go on the shelf. Even though we don't know when we can get the FX57 David said he would call the customer tomorrow to see if it would be alright if he installed a FX55 just to play a little. Than we will both know a little more about the G70.
 
LOL You best go back and reread my post
never ever ever did I say we would buy and use a P4 P EE not ever. I was going to get David a 3.73 for fathers day so he could play with it and he came unglued P4P is a cuss word in this house hold.
Click to expand...

I really just dont know what you are talking about. Simply based on your past record of blindly recommending Intel for everything, i can infer that you are going to say the only CPU that wont bottleneck (ie: the fastest) would be the P EE. Whoever this David guy is, i find it hard to believe that you have $1100 lying around to drop on a fathers day present.

What is a P4P!? Are you referring to the P4P800 series of motherboards or something?

As for the comment on Rollo, you said you weren't going to say anything because you know our response, yet you go ahead and say it anyways!!

THINK

-Kevin
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
LOL You best go back and reread my post
never ever ever did I say we would buy and use a P4 P EE not ever. I was going to get David a 3.73 for fathers day so he could play with it and he came unglued P4P is a cuss word in this house hold.
Click to expand...

I really just dont know what you are talking about. Simply based on your past record of blindly recommending Intel for everything, i can infer that you are going to say the only CPU that wont bottleneck (ie: the fastest) would be the P EE. Whoever this David guy is, i find it hard to believe that you have $1100 lying around to drop on a fathers day present.

What is a P4P!? Are you referring to the P4P800 series of motherboards or something?

As for the comment on Rollo, you said you weren't going to say anything because you know our response, yet you go ahead and say it anyways!!

THINK

-Kevin
Click to expand...

First off don't talk about my money OK because you haven't a clue .

Second P4P= Pentium 4 Prescott. If you read my post you well see that David my husband uses AMD64 processors exclusively in all his gaming rigs .

Third I have read here that many of you have higher education. I know my spelling and grammer sucks but I have very good memory and attention span . Which many at this forum lack .

The only reason I reposted is Rollo and yourself put words in my mouth that I never said.
 
Thanks to the Xbox 360 and hardware from both ATI and Nvidia, there are some really demanding games coming out next year.

Rollo mentioned some of them. I advise you to go take a look at them at gamespot.

http://www.gamespot.com/previews.html?p...bypostdate&order=desc&time=threemonths

Alan Wake looks out of this world. The screen shots look like in game movies and puts Far Cry to shame and Far Cry all ready requires a lot of horse power to play it at max res and max settings.

Then you have Prey which looks almost like D4 with a much sinister looking twist with about 10x more lighting effects.

Huxley looks like PainKiller with steroids. The detailed atmosphere will make your mouth water.

Quake 4, however the more demanding game appears to be its sister game. "Enemy territory". Take a look at that game and it will make battle field 2 look like sim city.

Kill zone 2 and killing day. HL2 expansion with HDL.

The list goes on and on. But they release dates seem so far away. Will we need them sooner or later. However even to me 600 dollars for what seems a stagnant Summer for video games is obscene.

 
First off don't talk about my money OK because you haven't a clue .
Click to expand...

I didn't mean for it to come off that you are poor. But, dropping 1100 on a fathers day gift, YIKES.

Second P4P= Pentium 4 Prescott. If you read my post you well see that David my husband uses AMD64 processors exclusively in all his gaming rigs .
Click to expand...

Then why would you buy him his own personal heater. It is very hard to recommend an Intel chip right now, even more so the EE.

Third I have read here that many of you have higher education. I know my spelling and grammer sucks but I have very good memory and attention span . Which many at this forum lack .
Click to expand...

Ok, why are you telling us this.

The only reason I reposted is Rollo and yourself put words in my mouth that I never said.
Click to expand...

We didn't put words in your mouth. You say you aren't going to say something then you hint just enough for any person to figure out exactly what you wanted to say.

Those games look incredible regs, thanks for the link!

-Kevin
 
Thnaks Regs- I was mistaken- thought Wolf2 and Prey would be out late this but I guess not? (although I didn't see Wolf 2 on there at all?)

Well, there's Q4 this year anyway.

The Huxley demo at G70 launch looked phenomenal.
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
First off don't talk about my money OK because you haven't a clue .
Click to expand...

I didn't mean for it to come off that you are poor. But, dropping 1100 on a fathers day gift, YIKES.

Second P4P= Pentium 4 Prescott. If you read my post you well see that David my husband uses AMD64 processors exclusively in all his gaming rigs .
Click to expand...

Then why would you buy him his own personal heater. It is very hard to recommend an Intel chip right now, even more so the EE.

Third I have read here that many of you have higher education. I know my spelling and grammer sucks but I have very good memory and attention span . Which many at this forum lack .
Click to expand...

Ok, why are you telling us this.

The only reason I reposted is Rollo and yourself put words in my mouth that I never said.
Click to expand...

We didn't put words in your mouth. You say you aren't going to say something then you hint just enough for any person to figure out exactly what you wanted to say.

Those games look incredible regs, thanks for the link!

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Ok I surrender you know my mind better than I do .,

 
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