G20 Emergency Meeting over US Credit Downgrade

[Engineer]

Futures down 2.1% right now. Going to be a bad Monday (week) I'm afraid.

 

[Kntx]

Usually, people sell out of stocks and jump to safe havens like US Treasuries. I guess they are going to sell stocks and jump into Canadian, German, <insert other AAA bond> here?

I just have an uneasy feeling that the market, already on edge, is going to do a complete panic tomorrow. I don't know if I can deal with watching it crash again (I rode the last one all the way down and back up and I'm getting too old for another roller coaster ride).

Nah, there's not enough bonds issued by anyone else but the USA to fill the market. USA bonds will continue to be in very high demand.

 

[Doppel]

Futures down 2.1% right now. Going to be a bad Monday (week) I'm afraid.

Could be. Or it could drop 200 and then close up 250, you just never know, that's the fun

 

[manimal]

How much of this is overanxious investors too recently burned by the last big sell off.


I seriously think many are suffering from post traumatic stress from the last few years financially...

 

[irishScott]

We'll see if you are still going to be lol-ing after we try Republican austerity instead.

Austerity in some form is coming regardless of the Democrats or Republicans. We've spent money that isn't there, and that's unsustainable. Eventually programs that someone considers "vital" whether it's the military or medicare, are going to be cut and people are going to be pissed and living with less. Not saying the Republicans have entirely the right idea, but short of a radical change in our economic system (that may defy capitalism itself) we are not going to increase revenue enough to cover the expenses.

Oh and if the Democrats are so pissed at the recent debt ceiling crisis, maybe they should look at why they lost the midterm elections and change their platform so they win the next one. Right now all I hear is crying like a 3 year old in a theater about how evil the Republicans are.

 

[wuliheron]

How much of this is overanxious investors too recently burned by the last big sell off.

I seriously think many are suffering from post traumatic stress from the last few years financially...

In a war zone you either duck every time a car backfires or risk getting killed. There's nothing "overanxious" about it and it isn't called "post" until the war is over. Its just called stress and trauma.

 

[Doboji]

.... and US food too. Let's not forget that.

We ought limit, not cancel foreign aid. I would only provide money and loans to those countries that are at least trying to have a democratic government, free/fair elections and a market driven economy. Yes, I understand the irony of that....we, the USA, would not be eligible for foreign aid under my rules.

I don't understand how anyone would think reducing govt income will lower govt debt... Reduce spending, yes that makes sense... But you have to increase income as well... Common sense.

 

[KK]

Turns out Canada was downgraded in the early '90s from AAA with a $50 billion deficit (population was ~25 million then, and it happened on the Conservative gov'ts near 10 year reign). Didn't get back AAA until the durty Liberal government ran a surplus for 9 years, and paid off the entire deficit, then kept running surpluses.

I'd vote for anybody that is willing to cut spending enough to get back into the black. Too bad here in the states, no major party will ever do it. we seen what the dems would do if they had total control of everything, and it wasn't pretty. We seen what Bush and co. did, and they were almost as bad.

 

[BarneyFife]

Most tea party people are morons. They don't realize that the US government is basically attached to the hip with corporate America. You cut government spending, you're also killing a bunch of business' that are vendors, contractors, etc.. for the US government. They think that they are just cutting welfare to some black kid in the ghetto.

 

[her209]

Most tea party people are morons. They don't realize that the US government is basically attached to the hip with corporate America. You cut government spending, you're also killing a bunch of business' that are vendors, contractors, etc.. for the US government. They think that they are just cutting welfare to some black kid in the ghetto.

Cutting welfare would hurt grocery stores that benefit from SNAP and WIC. Cutting HUD housing subsidies would hurt landlords who rent to qualifying tenants. etc. Basically, behind every government program, there's a benefactor. This is one reason why lobbyists exist.

 

[sandorski]

I'd vote for anybody that is willing to cut spending enough to get back into the black. Too bad here in the states, no major party will ever do it. we seen what the dems would do if they had total control of everything, and it wasn't pretty. We seen what Bush and co. did, and they were almost as bad.

Which was? Oh right, being pushed around by the Republicans.

 

[trenchfoot]

People don't understand how much foreign aid is a scam to use taxpayer dollars to be returned to US corporations. 'Here's 500 million more to buy things from our companies'.

There's a book, 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man', that I'm not sure how literally accurate it is, but it nicely lays out the agenda of a lot of that money.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.:thumbsup:

Another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

 

[KK]

Which was? Oh right, being pushed around by the Republicans.

How so? they had control of everything.

 

[Darwin333]

Except we're not.

Krugman has said we haven't had nearly the stimulus spending needed.

Krugman is wrong.

 

[nick1985]

Krugman is wrong.

Krugman could tell craig that he fucked a unicorn in the ass last night, and craig would believe him.

 

[Imp]

I'd vote for anybody that is willing to cut spending enough to get back into the black. Too bad here in the states, no major party will ever do it. we seen what the dems would do if they had total control of everything, and it wasn't pretty. We seen what Bush and co. did, and they were almost as bad.

Unfortunately, what you'll get in Canada is Bush-lite (as far as we know because the Prime Minister had a minority government, so needed to appease the leftists to get anything done; full mandate now). The party's a neo-con, cut taxes, barely cut spending, sell crown assets dirt cheap, etc. The genius finance minister actually "lost track" of about $5 billion when he was with the provincial government. His replacement found out...


Fun on the markets tomorrow! Probably sitting this one out, may throw in a teeny bit to play some of the volatility. There are some absolutely dirt cheap, solid companies out there right now. Sucks for the rest of the week though. I'm in the field Tuesday to Thursday, and no smartphone (may just be the justification to get one).

 

[ProfJohn]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...mergency-call-to-discuss-us-credit-downgrade/

"Financial officials from the Group of 20 major economies reportedly held an emergency conference call Sunday to the discuss the debt crises in the U.S. and Europe following several days of market panic and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating."

Going to be an interesting Monday, to say the least.

Obama's 2012 theme song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eyFiClAzq8

 

[sandorski]

How so? they had control of everything.

They had the numbers, but not the Will or Cohesion to do it.

 

[halik]

People don't understand how much foreign aid is a scam to use taxpayer dollars to be returned to US corporations. 'Here's 500 million more to buy things from our companies'.

There's a book, 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man', that I'm not sure how literally accurate it is, but it nicely lays out the agenda of a lot of that money.

You want people to take you serious with amy fucking goodman? Come on man, you're making yourself a walking stereotype; anti-particle to Rush limbaugh enthusiast.

 

[e-drood]

I'm in Hong Kong keying in this reply - it is now monday 4:55pm - and life goes on - even went by bank/central and HKD still pegged to USD at $7.786 no change

no panic'd calls from brokers and yes we are making informed share purchases... and not shorting any shares today...

it is called "moral superiority" - you lead by example, not by coercing others...

and by the way, when done in reasonable manner, "exporting jobs" is very effective form of indirect foreign aid - however, perhaps time to slow down rate of jobs lose...

you really are incredibly fortunate that the yuan simply can't be allowed upward float.

time to tell members of congress that this is last likely "reality attack" us deficit financing can survive... but hey a weaker us dollar really is a good thing for exports, just ask airbus inds how they feel about a strengthening euro...

 

[halik]

Actually it's kinda dead tonight ( professional fx trader, london hours).

you really are incredibly fortunate that the yuan simply can't be allowed upward float.

Care to explain how US is fortunate in that regard? Pretty sure that would kill Chinese export economy

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Like I've been saying for the last... I don't know how long.

It doesn't matter who has been in charge. Our government has refused to curb spending and has refused to do anything to control the debt. I thought shit was out of control when Dubbya was the decider. Obama is just fucking insane. Watching him spend is like watching the Joker light that mountain of cash on fire.

The loss of our credit rating was inevitable. And even with this, they (R's & D's) will do nothing to correct either of the above. They'll keep spending and blaming each other.

It's embarrassing.

And yet we keep playing the team sports version of politics. The definition of insnanity at work.

 

[e-drood]

messer e-drood & halik ask the indulgence of our host, nick1985, for brief o.t. reply on your thread, thanking you in advance,

halik, realpolitik, beijing decides time right to widen yuan float band to +20&#37; (prc reserves to support buying yuan if global resistance @ 20%) - will prc exports suffer, nearterm, NO because stronger yuan is used to secure imported raw materials + oil/gas energy stocks and ALL prc exporting industries are indirectly subsidised through import duty rebate/fees/taxes rebates to drive export sales to achieve mandated gnp targets - this is reality --- longterm prc majority exports must become high value added production or higher yuan will hurt...

higher yuan will result in domestic/provincial social unrest - higher staple food prices - this is correct but will be offset by direct pocket money funds paid to provincial party offices (ccp not local gov't) & distributed during public outburst events.

however stronger yuan will be used to accelerate chinese corporate farms programs in african states resulting in prc greatly reducing dependency on imported grains, sugar & palm oil - major grain producers hurt & malaysia/palm oil hurt... african land cheap, fertile & watered (deep wells) & leadership easily "influenced"...

there is NO single power center in prc "beijing" is dominant consensus expressed by 3-5 regional/national/pla power centers and consensus right now is to humble usd by demonstrating ability to float yuan upward to add credability to "beijing" assertion of yuan acting as linch-pin sovereign currency reserve - failure of usd being self-evident to "world & dog". Chinese disease for millenia has been hubris, again openly displayed in nationalistic fervor (revolutionary opera is "in" again & so is ballet).

the key to higher yuan value is acceptance as sovereign currency reserve major component...

ask au gov't negotiators what it's like to backdown after prc state iron ore purchasing office dictated commodity price to au producers...

chinese face breeds hubris and hubris blinds - now acting to float yuan is very risk fraught, and yet "betting everything on one throw of die" is certainly evident throughout chinese & japanese history - can nearterm future be any different - probably not...

what is most valuable commodity today, prc, - increased potable water supplies - tibet is all about securing increased glacial melt headwaters & strip mining for minerals in high valley's...

challenging global game board, beijing covets state of art large wafer fab and ain't going to happen... unless they build their own... but india just might be host country...

complicated world... but hughly entertaining

monday 10:11pm wall street dropping and i shorted several stocks...

 

[e-drood]

continuing - counterpoint - "blogs business cnn .com" "wake up call for us and china"

economic value is based on perception of relative scarcity and emotion...

we are presently watching "emotion" run through all regional markets...

are you longing for a return to the bad old days of the cold war & two superpowers? only...