G-Skill 6400 ram, Need some clarification on something please!

[bushwickbill]

I just bought two sets of this, They should be at my house in a few days.
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...e=G.SKILL&promoid=1061

Now according to this list (Why didn't I have this list Before I made a purchase, DOH!!)
http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/

My Ram is on that list, But I am a little confused. Here is a Quad 1GB kit, look down this page a little bit for the G-Skill Quad kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...2108080&page=3&bop=And

So, Referring to that Ram list, That quad kit is on there as NOT having D9 Micron Chips.
Now my 2GB kits are not the exact same model number, It is one digit off, So Do I have D9 Micron chips in my kits or not?
I need someone who has a little experience using that list that can tell me one way or the other with %100 accuracy, If mine do or not have the D9 Micron chips.
BTW, What does 6 Layer PCB Mean on Ram sticks? Does it help with performance or Stability?
Thanx as always people for your advice.

 

[JustaGeek]

This kit definitely does NOT use Micron D9 IC's.

No Micron D9's will have 5-5-5-15 timings at 800MHz.

But G.Skill is a great memory brand, so it should work fine.

2GBHZ kit is the only one with D9's, AFAIK.

Here is G.Skill naming rule - H or G with Z are the top of the line.

http://www.gskill.com/indexen.html

(Click on TechInfo, then select the G.Skill Naming Rule)

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek

No Micron D9's will have 5-5-5-15 timings at 800MHz.

On the contrary, these do:
G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800

Although that is quite likely because of the memory density but the fact still remains, these are:

Micron D9HNL (HQ-3) 6-layer PCB

and they are 5-5-5-15 timings at 800MHz.


Beautiful kit of RAM though. I'm getting one.

:thumbsup:

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: Cheex

Originally posted by: JustaGeek

No Micron D9's will have 5-5-5-15 timings at 800MHz.

On the contrary, these do:
G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800

Although that is quite likely because of the memory density but the fact still remains, these are:

Micron D9HNL (HQ-3) 6-layer PCB

and they are 5-5-5-15 timings at 800MHz.


Beautiful kit of RAM though. I'm getting one.

:thumbsup:

These can not possibly be Micron chips. Rated Queen...? (After Zeus and King...?)

Where did you get that Micron D9HNL from, Cheex...?

EDIT: You're right, these are the chips, according to the RAM list...

Cool!

Too bad the OP's chips are not...

 

[Cheex]

Ya, too bad.

What's worse (I don't know what G.SKILL was thinking), these:
G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000

are not Micron.

They are ProMOS.

Yet they are rated higher and cost more. The 800's are a steal of a deal and people have them running at 1000MHz, 5-5-5-15 @ 1.9V-2.0V.

I'm getting a pair.


Edit: I haven't seen any King or Zeus 4GB kits.

 

[JustaGeek]

Neither did I.

It's just marketing anyway...

G.Skill is an excellent, "quiet" brand, compared to the big competitors like Crucial or Corsair.

And they make great quality RAM, running at minimal voltage (my Micron D9 HZ's at 2.0V), so I wouldn't worry too much about the brand of chips they use.

 

[Cheex]

True.

My HK 800s do 900 and they are ProMOS ICs.

I wish they could do 1000 like in the reviews but I don't mind too much.

Now I'll get that 4GB kit and do 1000 (MAYBE)....

 

[bushwickbill]

So after all that, What kind of chips are in mine? Not being D9 Microns, Is thee anything special about them. What is 6 layer PCB?
Next time I purchase Ram, I will be referring to this list. I really only need some Ram to get my E6400 up to 3.2Ghz or maybe a little higher?
Do you guys think I will have any problems hitting 8*400=3.2Ghz?
Thanx for all the help guys. Anyway I slice it, I did get a quality set of Ram, Right?

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: bushwickbill
So after all that, What kind of chips are in mine? Not being D9 Microns, Is thee anything special about them. What is 6 layer PCB?
Next time I purchase Ram, I will be referring to this list. I really only need some Ram to get my E6400 up to 3.2Ghz or maybe a little higher?
Do you guys think I will have any problems hitting 8*400=3.2Ghz?
Thanx for all the help guys. Anyway I slice it, I did get a quality set of Ram, Right?

Absolutely! And you should have no problem getting 8*400.

If you have any issues, just e-mail G.Skill and tell them what RAM/MB/CPU you have. They will give you proper subtimings for your setup (you already know 5-5-5-15-2T).

Good luck!

 

[n7]

Holy misinformation in this thread :Q

Okay, first off, stating that there's no such thing as DDR2-800 5-5-5 Micron D9 ICs is hilariously wrong, sorry.

The infamy of Micron D9s was initially started by the "Fatbodies".
The more recent renown was created by these specific two types: D9GMH & D9GKX.

D9GMH is actually DDR2-667 5-5-5 1.8V
D9GKX is actually DDR2-800 5-5-5 1.8V

That's how they're designed by Micron.
The lower timings (like say 4-4-4) are set by the manufacturers, such as Corsair, G.Skill, Mushkin, etc.
Same with the higher speeds.
The best clocking DDR is usually D9GMH, which is actually originally rated at a mere DDR2-667 5-5-5 (until it gets binned & tested & set at say DDR2-1066 4-4-4) by those brands we purchase.


And these two G.Skill 2x2 GB kits are both Powerchips, not Micron or ProMOS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: n7
Holy misinformation in this thread :Q

Okay, first off, stating that there's no such thing as DDR2-800 5-5-5 Micron D9 ICs is hilariously wrong, sorry.

The infamy of Micron D9s was initially started by the "Fatbodies".
The more recent renown was created by these specific two types: D9GMH & D9GKX.

D9GMH is actually DDR2-667 5-5-5 1.8V
D9GKX is actually DDR2-800 5-5-5 1.8V

That's how they're designed by Micron.
The lower timings (like say 4-4-4) are set by the manufacturers, such as Corsair, G.Skill, Mushkin, etc.
Same with the higher speeds.
The best clocking DDR is usually D9GMH, which is actually originally rated at a mere DDR2-667 5-5-5 (until it gets binned & tested & set at say DDR2-1066 4-4-4) by those brands we purchase.


And these two G.Skill 2x2 GB kits are both Powerchips, not Micron or ProMOS:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231122

Are you disputing the validity of the "RAM list"...?

This is their listing:

PC2-6400 PQ (2x2GB)
F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
5.0-5-5-15 @ 1.8 ~ 1.9V
Micron D9HNL (HQ-3) 6-layer PCB

And why should I trust you, not them...?

And perhaps you could offer links to RAM with Micron D9 IC's with 5-5-5-15 and 800MHz.

You certainly did your homework, and might have read some Micron documents. but when you use words "hilariously wrong", and then confirm that the RAM manufacturers set their timing lower, what are you trying to accomplish...?

I do not care if Intel designed my CPU for 2.4GHz - I will run it at 2.9GHz, 'cause I like speed.

I don't care if Micron designed their D9's for 667MHz, 5-5-5 and 1.8V - I will run them at 800MHz, 4-4-4 and 2.1V, 'cause I like speed!

 

[Mech0z]

With all these RAM experts here what to pick
Crucial DDR2 BallistiX PC6400 2048MB CL4 ,Kit w/two BallistiX 1024MB's, E.P.P
Or
Kingston HyperX KHX6400D2LLK2/2G - Kit

I already ordered the HyperX as they dont have the upper at that shop where Iam ordering the rest of my PC the Crusial would be cheaper even with postal charges though. Is it worth the hassle getting the Ballistix?

 

[JustaGeek]

HyperX is a fine PC2 6400 memory working at 1.95V.

Stick with it.

BTW, Ballistix generally require 2.2V to operate at 800MHz, although there have been reports of people running it at lower voltages.

Good luck!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

JG -- we done been here before on dis topic.

I still need to test some re-badged Tracers at DDR2-800, but it seemed to me you could run at lower voltage with looser timings.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Aren't there ANY of the G.SKILL "HZ" modules in a 2 x 2GB kit? and I can-NOT freakin' FIND those ANY-where . . . . . even in the 2 x 1GB kits.

 

[JustaGeek]

I just checked the G.Skill website, and it doesn't seem that the HZ's come in any other size than 2x1GB for DDR2 800 and 1000, and 2x512MB for DDR2 800.

But these 4GBPQ's look awesome IMO, and they do have Micron IC's.

The 2x1GB HZ's are still available on Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...PA=0&Description=2gbhz

Look at those DDR3 1600 for ~$480, with 7-7-7-18 timings. They also had to increase the voltage to 1.9V from the base DDR3 of 1.5V, to make it run at those speeds.

It will take awhile for the speeds to catch up with the timings, and the price to come down, to make it worth any consideration.

 

[n7]

I see r00n has that 4 GB kit as Micron (he posts on XS & runs the RAM list), but i've seen that confirmed nowhere.

He's generally bang on, but somehow i don't believe he is this time.

If you can find me somewhere confirming that kit is Micron, i'll be impressed.

It's not though...it's the same exact Powerchips as in the DDR2-1000 4 GB kit.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

This phenomenon occurred during the DDR(1) technology. I think they went from 1GB kits to 2GB kits just before production shifted to DDR2. So I'd be skeptical if they follow the entire learning and product-improvement curves, as the technology migrates toward DDR3.

It's a form of uncertainty, and the only thing to do is wait, watch and see what happens.

 

[cmdrdredd]

You know I used to stay up and wonder about D9GMH GKX etc

Then I realized something. Just buy memory rated to what you need it to do. In other words, if you need to run DDR2-1000 (500Mhz FSB) then buy memory rated to that speed. Praying for an overclock is not usually the best idea. Not to mention, memory speed plays very little in total system performance. Also most of the majory brands swap ICs often and the list can't always be perfect. Remember this.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You know I used to stay up and wonder about D9GMH GKX etc

Then I realized something. Just buy memory rated to what you need it to do. In other words, if you need to run DDR2-1000 (500Mhz FSB) then buy memory rated to that speed.

Ceteris Paribus, that seems like a reasonable rule-of-thumb. But if you're going to over-clock, you want some flexibility . . .

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd Praying for an overclock is not usually the best idea.

And an economist will say "I don't invest in the stock market," or "Gambling at the Indian Reservation has low expected returns and high expected losses." But, like the card-counter and inside-trader, we have access to more information, so the gamble is less a prayer and more a calculated risk.

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Not to mention, memory speed plays very little in total system performance. Also most of the majory brands swap ICs often and the list can't always be perfect. Remember this.

A computer is like a pyramid. At the top, registers, L1 and L2 cache -- moving from the pinnacle and down a couple layers of blocks, respectively -- have high speed, low volume, and high cost per unit-of-storage. System RAM is the next lower level on the pyramid: slower speed, higher volume and lower cost, and the just-mentioned relationship between registers, L1 and L2 follow the same pattern. Going lower, you have electromechanical devices -- hard drives -- again -- slower speed, greater storage capacity, lower cost per-unit of storage.

Ignoring the bucks and ducats, if we open the bottleneck at the disk level, the "system" will be faster. It will be faster for certain activities, and no slower for others. Ditto with the RAM.

I've run some tests on my DDR2-1000s. I can get the same bandwidth bench results at lower FSB and tighter latencies as I can with higher FSB and the necessarily looser latencies. And some voices in the "industry" say that "latencies aren't as important for DDR2 as they were for DDR(1)." But I hear this, and I'm thinking "not true." They differentiate the product by binning IC's, then sell the "faster" RAM for a higher price -- harmless but subtle price-discrimination. Why would they focus efforts on latencies if it's easier to differentiate binned chips in Mhz? And over-clockers tend toward simpler, less tedious achievements, just as the manufacturers might.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You know I used to stay up and wonder about D9GMH GKX etc

Then I realized something. Just buy memory rated to what you need it to do. In other words, if you need to run DDR2-1000 (500Mhz FSB) then buy memory rated to that speed. Praying for an overclock is not usually the best idea. Not to mention, memory speed plays very little in total system performance. Also most of the majory brands swap ICs often and the list can't always be perfect. Remember this.

I didn't worry to that extent, but after literally burning through 5 kits of D9GMH/GKH from "premium" brands I went with G.Skill on a whim and have been much happier. Current sticks run MUCH cooler, have no problems with default settings, no problems with denser modules, no problems with 8GB and 4 dimm slots etc. etc.

Oh ya, not sure what ICs are used on these G.Skill and don't care that much. All I know is they're rated at 1.8-1.9V for DDR2 800 and they run nice and cool at those speeds. Compared to the DDR2 1000+ kits I had where they were burning hot to the touch even when underclocked and wouldn't POST at less than 2.1V or run stably lower than 2.2V (spec).

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You know I used to stay up and wonder about D9GMH GKX etc

Then I realized something. Just buy memory rated to what you need it to do. In other words, if you need to run DDR2-1000 (500Mhz FSB) then buy memory rated to that speed.

Ceteris Paribus, that seems like a reasonable rule-of-thumb. But if you're going to over-clock, you want some flexibility . . .

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd Praying for an overclock is not usually the best idea.

And an economist will say "I don't invest in the stock market," or "Gambling at the Indian Reservation has low expected returns and high expected losses." But, like the card-counter and inside-trader, we have access to more information, so the gamble is less a prayer and more a calculated risk.

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Not to mention, memory speed plays very little in total system performance. Also most of the majory brands swap ICs often and the list can't always be perfect. Remember this.

A computer is like a pyramid. At the top, registers, L1 and L2 cache -- moving from the pinnacle and down a couple layers of blocks, respectively -- have high speed, low volume, and high cost per unit-of-storage. System RAM is the next lower level on the pyramid: slower speed, higher volume and lower cost, and the just-mentioned relationship between registers, L1 and L2 follow the same pattern. Going lower, you have electromechanical devices -- hard drives -- again -- slower speed, greater storage capacity, lower cost per-unit of storage.

Ignoring the bucks and ducats, if we open the bottleneck at the disk level, the "system" will be faster. It will be faster for certain activities, and no slower for others. Ditto with the RAM.

I've run some tests on my DDR2-1000s. I can get the same bandwidth bench results at lower FSB and tighter latencies as I can with higher FSB and the necessarily looser latencies. And some voices in the "industry" say that "latencies aren't as important for DDR2 as they were for DDR(1)." But I hear this, and I'm thinking "not true." They differentiate the product by binning IC's, then sell the "faster" RAM for a higher price -- harmless but subtle price-discrimination. Why would they focus efforts on latencies if it's easier to differentiate binned chips in Mhz? And over-clockers tend toward simpler, less tedious achievements, just as the manufacturers might.

Thing is, memory is cheap. Why not buy DDR2-1066 and call it a day? Not all DDR2-800 will do DDR2-1066. My GSkill won't, no matter what voltage and these are D9GMH. All DDR2-1066 memory will run DDR2-1066 assuming your memory controller is up to it.

It does NOT make sense to buy expensive DDR2-800 memory and overclock when 1000Mhz+ rated memory is so cheap. If you need that speed, just buy memory rated to that speed.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
You know I used to stay up and wonder about D9GMH GKX etc

Then I realized something. Just buy memory rated to what you need it to do. In other words, if you need to run DDR2-1000 (500Mhz FSB) then buy memory rated to that speed. Praying for an overclock is not usually the best idea. Not to mention, memory speed plays very little in total system performance. Also most of the majory brands swap ICs often and the list can't always be perfect. Remember this.

I didn't worry to that extent, but after literally burning through 5 kits of D9GMH/GKH from "premium" brands I went with G.Skill on a whim and have been much happier. Current sticks run MUCH cooler, have no problems with default settings, no problems with denser modules, no problems with 8GB and 4 dimm slots etc. etc.

Oh ya, not sure what ICs are used on these G.Skill and don't care that much. All I know is they're rated at 1.8-1.9V for DDR2 800 and they run nice and cool at those speeds. Compared to the DDR2 1000+ kits I had where they were burning hot to the touch even when underclocked and wouldn't POST at less than 2.1V or run stably lower than 2.2V (spec).

Probably Promos based. It's not bad. My D9GMH G.Skills can do DDR2-1000 at 4-4-4-12 1T with 2.3v but I don't bother. They will run DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-15 with 1.8v. I run DDR2-850 4-4-4-12 1T at 2.1v because it's what they're rated for voltage. I don't need 1000+Mhz memory and even when I run 1000Mhz it's no performance gain that you can measure outside synthetics.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

"Memory is cheap."

Seems to be the case right now. When I think about what I paid for a 2x1GB set of OCZ Gold's in 2005 . . . . . it makes me sick.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
"Memory is cheap."

Seems to be the case right now. When I think about what I paid for a 2x1GB set of OCZ Gold's in 2005 . . . . . it makes me sick.

Yeah I remember the cheapest 2GB set was Promos based Corsair memory that was $229 AFTER rebates. for 5-5-5-15 stuff. Now you can get D9GMH 4-4-4-12 for $50 after rebates