G-d damned Russians escorted off American airspace...again

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
So tell me op, how do you feel about U2 incident in 1960?

The russians did their job. Today, we need to show them who's boss.

I think you watched too many movies like Red Dawn and Rambo. Grow up.

There are certain unwritten rules that both sides follow, and they were followed in this case as well. You don't screw around trying to act tough and trigger-happy in these sorts of things.

Shooting planes down tends to kill people, and piss off the country whose plane was shot down. There is no need to accidentally start any sort of skirmishes that might be grounds for retaliation.

And stop being such a puss. The Russians have shot down far more civilian and American crafts than we have. They won't start a war over a "mistake".

We don't shoot down their bombers for the same reason the Russians don't shoot down ours that patrol near their borders. Advocating ideas to cause thermonuclear escalation is the sign of someone who is mentally unstable, a low-grade subject, somone who couldn't get a driver's license in any state except possibly New Jersey.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Dari

What makes you think you are more moral than me? You're the ones that walk around telling people how to live their lives or condemning them to hell if they don't follow your way of life. But, in secrecy, you are 10,000 dirtier than me.

Please, don't go around judging others.

I'm condemning WHO to hell for WHAT??? WTF YOU TALKIN' 'BOUT, RUFUS???? :shocked:

You've got to be confusing me with some religious wingnut. I'm a devout, born again athiest.

And I hope most people are more moral and ethical than any blood thirsty jackass, chicken hawk or real, who's willing to spill blood for no reason.

I hope you don't really believe that, but if you do, you're a pathetic excuse for a human being. :thumbsdown:

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dari

What makes you think you are more moral than me? You're the ones that walk around telling people how to live their lives or condemning them to hell if they don't follow your way of life. But, in secrecy, you are 10,000 dirtier than me.

Please, don't go around judging others.

I'm condemning WHO to hell for WHAT??? WTF YOU TALKIN' 'BOUT, RUFUS???? :shocked:

You've got to be confusing me with some religious wingnut. I'm a devout, born again athiest.

And I hope most people are more moral and ethical than any blood thirsty jackass, chicken hawk or real, who's willing to spill blood for no reason.

I hope you don't really believe that, but if you do, you're a pathetic excuse for a human being. :thumbsdown:

Settle down, Fido. Here's a for your moralist crusade:roll:. You must be feelin real good about yourself, huh?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Dari

Settle down, Fido. Here's a for your moralist crusade:roll:. You must be feelin real good about yourself, huh?

Keep your fscking cookie unless it comes with an apology. If not, I don't have to say anything more. Your own words are enough for others to know what you are.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dari

What makes you think you are more moral than me? You're the ones that walk around telling people how to live their lives or condemning them to hell if they don't follow your way of life. But, in secrecy, you are 10,000 dirtier than me.

Please, don't go around judging others.

I'm condemning WHO to hell for WHAT??? WTF YOU TALKIN' 'BOUT, RUFUS???? :shocked:

You've got to be confusing me with some religious wingnut. I'm a devout, born again athiest.

And I hope most people are more moral and ethical than any blood thirsty jackass, chicken hawk or real, who's willing to spill blood for no reason.

I hope you don't really believe that, but if you do, you're a pathetic excuse for a human being. :thumbsdown:

So by atheist, do you claim to know there is no God or believe there is no God?

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Dari
Just because that c**ksucker Putin is flushed with petrodollars, he thinks he can keep doing this shit without retribution? It's almost as if they have a death wish. Next time, we should just send a missile their away and call it a "mistake".

Good thinking. Let's blow away more human beings to satisfy your blood lust, instead of dealing with it in an intelligent, reasonable way. Your Traitor In Chief would be proud. :thumbsdown:

How often do you post in thread in P&N *without* making a reference to our President?

Why do you give a sh8? :roll:

And he's YOUR President. I was smart enough not to vote for him, and I don't accept brain dead murderers, traitors and torturers like George W. Bush as MY President.

He's the President of these United States of America. Period. Your semantics are just that semantics. Fuzzy Bee does have a point you always get it back to PRESIDENT Bush. So personal...

I for one am all about the torture of terrorists. I sure as heck don't condone using kid gloves on them. If it saves one American life... Let them have Folgers and not Starbucks! Just kidding I think Starbucks finally figured out sending terrorist free coffee to get them hooked might not help their bottom line as most will rot in Cuba.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: kage69

Bufs are over 50 and my Eagles (A/B Model) are over 30. Strike (E Model) is over 25.

All have been doing their jobs on the frontlines when needed without a whimper.

Winner! Thank you EK. I think we can safely say that age alone doesn't qualify a design as junk, contrary to what has been previously implied in this thread.

agreed. design management has a lot to do with it.

so both the Buf's & the Eagles were designed without CAD
or computerized finite element analysis ? using drafting
paper, vellum, rubylith, etc. (except for radio upgrades
designed using CAD.)

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
So tell me op, how do you feel about U2 incident in 1960?

The russians did their job. Today, we need to show them who's boss.

I think you watched too many movies like Red Dawn and Rambo. Grow up.

There are certain unwritten rules that both sides follow, and they were followed in this case as well. You don't screw around trying to act tough and trigger-happy in these sorts of things.

Shooting planes down tends to kill people, and piss off the country whose plane was shot down. There is no need to accidentally start any sort of skirmishes that might be grounds for retaliation.

And stop being such a puss. The Russians have shot down far more civilian and American crafts than we have. They won't start a war over a "mistake".

And that has exactly what to do with this discussion?

Is this another "they did it, so we need to as well?" otherwise known as "they broke the law, so I want to as well"?

Is that really how you think? Again, grow up.

I know this is apparently above your comprehension, but most of the <insert whatever country you want> soldiers are just like our soldiers. They get orders and have to follow them out. If the Russian Air Force says, fly a plane off of Alaska, they fly a plane off of Alaska.

Just like when our guys get told to go to Iraq, they go to Iraq. Military personnel of most countries don't get to decide what to do.

Ranting about stupid macho shit like this is counterproductive, and only makes things worse, and harms innocent people (like the aircrew who are just following orders).

Hopefully, one of these days, you will be able to comprehend these simple concepts and stop wanting to randomly kill people.

 

[looker001]

Russia is not violating us airspace. Russian bombers basically approached us airspace(well in this case) the exclusion zone. To keep Russian bombers from flying in to us airspace, we scramble jets to intercept them and basically lead them away from us airspace. Both America and Russia play this cat and mouse games and it's not a big deal.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender

Shoot them down? Then what? Wage war against Russia? Do you think that's smart?

This isn't about smart, this is about America... f**k yeah!

Slight intoxicated and quoted the wrong person.

BTW, the design of the buff is 50 years old but I don't think the airframes flying today are actually that old. I believe the ones flying today were actually built in the 70s. Could be incorrect on that though.

 

[superstition]

Just because that c**ksucker Putin...

Friend of yours?

 

[BansheeX]

I'm glad certain people in the military aren't as stupid and kneejerk as some of the people in this thread. Words and provocation mean nothing. You don't start all-out war because you're scared someone is going to attack you, especially when you have thousands of nuclear weapons as an assurance that they could never destroy you without ultimately destroying themselves.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: looker001
Russia is not violating us airspace. Russian bombers basically approached us airspace(well in this case) the exclusion zone. To keep Russian bombers from flying in to us airspace, we scramble jets to intercept them and basically lead them away from us airspace. Both America and Russia play this cat and mouse games and it's not a big deal.

I recall reading somewhere that the pilots on both sides actually enjoy it. They get to see the others hardware up close and even converse back and forth in a friendly manner, IIRC. I don't believe its the uber-tense situation that everyone is making it out to be.

Now the carrier flyover, that had to be pretty tense. I don't know much about naval air tactics but couldn't a flyover by a bomber at 2K feet be interpreted as a bombing run? Or perhaps the naval flyovers are as common as the pokes at land based security?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Now the carrier flyover, that had to be pretty tense. I don't know much about naval air tactics but couldn't a flyover by a bomber at 2K feet be interpreted as a bombing run? Or perhaps the naval flyovers are as common as the pokes at land based security?

The bomber could have attacked the carrier at 250+ miles... in a real engagement, that bomber would not want to anywhere that close to the warship. If anyone was tense, I'm sure it were the Russian pilots.

There's something strangely comforting about these incidents with US and Russian forces... perhaps because it's familiar and relatively benign interplay between rational nation states (as opposed to unfamiliar, malicious interplay with irrational/rogue nations or non-governmental actors).

All they really amount to are spontaneous joint training exercises

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: looker001
Russia is not violating us airspace. Russian bombers basically approached us airspace(well in this case) the exclusion zone. To keep Russian bombers from flying in to us airspace, we scramble jets to intercept them and basically lead them away from us airspace. Both America and Russia play this cat and mouse games and it's not a big deal.

I recall reading somewhere that the pilots on both sides actually enjoy it. They get to see the others hardware up close and even converse back and forth in a friendly manner, IIRC. I don't believe its the uber-tense situation that everyone is making it out to be.

Now the carrier flyover, that had to be pretty tense. I don't know much about naval air tactics but couldn't a flyover by a bomber at 2K feet be interpreted as a bombing run? Or perhaps the naval flyovers are as common as the pokes at land based security?

It's not. It's business as usual for both sides. Like I said earlier, when I was a kid in Alaska this used to happen every week. It barely rated a mention on page 3 of the news paper.

 

[kage69]

I recall reading somewhere that the pilots on both sides actually enjoy it. They get to see the others hardware up close and even converse back and forth in a friendly manner, IIRC. I don't believe its the uber-tense situation that everyone is making it out to be.

Yep, the vast majority of them enjoy it. Remember that Chinese idiot who tried to crowd one of our EP3s off course, hit it, and then ejected into the path of a propeller? He was renowned for his interest in American planes; one crew actually got him on camera flashing his email address on a piece of paper to the American crew.

Pilots on all sides enjoy rubbin elbows with the potential opposition.

Except North Korean pilots, obviously. NKs don't do "enjoyment."

 

[looker001]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: looker001
Russia is not violating us airspace. Russian bombers basically approached us airspace(well in this case) the exclusion zone. To keep Russian bombers from flying in to us airspace, we scramble jets to intercept them and basically lead them away from us airspace. Both America and Russia play this cat and mouse games and it's not a big deal.

I recall reading somewhere that the pilots on both sides actually enjoy it. They get to see the others hardware up close and even converse back and forth in a friendly manner, IIRC. I don't believe its the uber-tense situation that everyone is making it out to be.

Now the carrier flyover, that had to be pretty tense. I don't know much about naval air tactics but couldn't a flyover by a bomber at 2K feet be interpreted as a bombing run? Or perhaps the naval flyovers are as common as the pokes at land based security?

Bomber wings were clean. Meaning it didn't carry any bombs. Navy was not concern about the flyover. Instead it was more of a political concern then anything else.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: EXman

He's the President of these United States of America. Period. Your semantics are just that semantics. Fuzzy Bee does have a point you always get it back to PRESIDENT Bush. So personal...

He's also a traitor, a murderer, a torturer a liar, and an ebarrassment to the United States of America.

I for one am all about the torture of terrorists. I sure as heck don't condone using kid gloves on them. If it saves one American life...

If you mean you support torture, such world scale stupidity is the reason your Torturer In Chief and his gang are war criminals. I hope they all are tried and convicted for their crimes and given lifetime vacations at the beautiful downtown Guantanamo Hilton with free daily passes for the exciting waterboard ride.

It isn't torture. They said so, themselves, and we can trust them... Right? :roll:

Getting back to the OP's topic, shooting down this Russian plane would be just as criminally stupid.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: Dari
And stop being such a puss. The Russians have shot down far more civilian and American crafts than we have. They won't start a war over a "mistake".

Ah, the result of modern US educational system. How many "civilian and American" planes have the Russians shot down in international airspace? I think zero, but I might be wrong. We, on the other hand did shoot down, on purpose, unprovoked, an Iranian Airbus with over 300 civilians on board, and the ship commander was promoted. So if I were you, I would crawl back under the slimy rock where you live and not display my ignorance and bigotry for everyone too see.

Now, back to the original topic. From the link it is not clear if the Russians truly were in our airspace (most likely not). So what's the big fuss? One would think that a Russian pilot stole your girlfriend.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: fornax

Originally posted by: Dari
And stop being such a puss. The Russians have shot down far more civilian and American crafts than we have. They won't start a war over a "mistake".

Ah, the result of modern US educational system. How many "civilian and American" planes have the Russians shot down in international airspace? I think zero, but I might be wrong. We, on the other hand did shoot down, on purpose, unprovoked, an Iranian Airbus with over 300 civilians on board, and the ship commander was promoted. So if I were you, I would crawl back under the slimy rock where you live and not display my ignorance and bigotry for everyone too see.

Now, back to the original topic. From the link it is not clear if the Russians truly were in our airspace (most likely not). So what's the big fuss? One would think that a Russian pilot stole your girlfriend.

Russkies shot down two of them actually, both were Korean Airlines. I have some links a page or so back.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: looker001

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: looker001
Russia is not violating us airspace. Russian bombers basically approached us airspace(well in this case) the exclusion zone. To keep Russian bombers from flying in to us airspace, we scramble jets to intercept them and basically lead them away from us airspace. Both America and Russia play this cat and mouse games and it's not a big deal.

I recall reading somewhere that the pilots on both sides actually enjoy it. They get to see the others hardware up close and even converse back and forth in a friendly manner, IIRC. I don't believe its the uber-tense situation that everyone is making it out to be.

Now the carrier flyover, that had to be pretty tense. I don't know much about naval air tactics but couldn't a flyover by a bomber at 2K feet be interpreted as a bombing run? Or perhaps the naval flyovers are as common as the pokes at land based security?

Bomber wings were clean. Meaning it didn't carry any bombs. Navy was not concern about the flyover. Instead it was more of a political concern then anything else.

I just didn't think they would let you get that close to the mother ship, period. I always assumed that if I flew a Cessna to close to a US carrier that my life expectancy would be measured in seconds. Are the carrier flyovers as common (or where as common) as the airspace checks?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
I just didn't think they would let you get that close to the mother ship, period. I always assumed that if I flew a Cessna to close to a US carrier that my life expectancy would be measured in seconds. Are the carrier flyovers as common (or where as common) as the airspace checks?

The Russian Air Force pilots don't have to worry about the FAA coming to talk to them and take away their pilots license. You do.

 

[Vonkhan]

the kind of sh!t was commonplace during the cold war - panties in a bunch much?

 

[Genx87]

I find it amusing some of the most vocal for shooting down a grandpa airplane come from the left.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I find it amusing some of the most vocal for shooting down a grandpa airplane come from the left.

Huh? Where do you get that?