FX5700 dies in Win98SE, instant black screen!!

[mortoma]

My brother wants to sell me his eVGA FX 5700 Ultra for peanuts because he wants to upgrade to 6800 series. But not being dumb, I decided to at least try the card in my system first. With the latest Nvidia drivers ( 61.76 ) for Win9X/ME, as soon as I get the driver installed and it finally boots into the desktop, the screen goes pitch black after a varying amounts of time, but always within one minute. Sometimes within one second. The computer and Windows are actually still running, you just can't see anything, so you have to hard kill it or hard reset it. It works fine before the drivers are installed and of couse you can see everything during the boot process or in the Bios and in Safe Mode.

The 5700 is supposed to be backwards compatible with Win98, hell, even 6800s are supposed to support all the way back to Win95!!! I read the Nvidia Acrobat file on the inside scoop of this latest driver, some issues here and there but nothing that indicates there's a huge problem with Win98SE, instead I get the impression it normally runs with 98SE and that Nvidia has tested it with that OS. When I put in my old TI4600 back in and reinstall the same driver after using DriverCleaner to clean out the remnants, my computer runs perfectly again. As a matter of fact, with my old card, I have an abnormally stable install of Win98SE, that's for sure. I play all the latest games as well as people with WinXP, within the limits of that old TI4600 Ultra, my XP-2100 Palamino processor and old PC-2100 memory ( 1 GB). I also have DirectX 9.0b installed and have had it since it came out.

Anybody got a clue why the 5700 Ultra is crapping out under a tiny/normal load for me?? When you first install a new driver in Win98, it by default comes up in 800X600 res., and the card is crapping out in a low res. like that??? And yes, I remembered to plug in the power supply cord into the jack at the back, which the TI-4600 didn't have. Another interesting fact, I have a totally different install of Windows 98SE on a different HD, and it does the same thing!!! Any suggestion that I upgrade to WinXP will be ignored, as that is not an option for me right now.

 

[mechBgon]

Welcome to the Forums. Please split up your messages into paragraphs in the future Now about the problem... what brand and model of power supply is towing the boat here, and what are the specs on the system as a whole? That info may help us guess if you're simply overloading your power supply. If your PSU is from the Win98 era then it's probably due for retirement anyway.

 

[mortoma]

Sorry I didn't know anybody on the entire internet ever used paragraghs. Didn't figure it was important since it's not a college thesis. And no, the P.S. is not it either. I thought the same thing and went out and bought a Antec 430 Watter, didn't help. Will keep it anyway since I'll need it when I build my next machine!! I also tried ( as suggested at the eVGA website ) to look for remnants or Voodoo, 3dfx or glide in the registry or in the folders/files. Didn't find any but didn't think it would be it since I have not built a machine with a Voodoo/Banshee in it since 1999. And this puter was built by yours truly in 2001.

It's a Asus A7M-266 mobo with an AMD 761 northbridge and a Via VT82C686B southbridge. I have 1024Mb of
Corsiar XMS-2700 CAS 2.0, but only runs at 2100 speeds due to mobo rated for only PC2100. Sound card is an Creative Audigy generation 1. I have just upgraded my Via 4 in 1 chipset drivers to a newer level but not the latest Hyperion 4 in 1s since they say older machines with older Windows most likely work better with circa 2001 to 2003 drivers, performance-wise. I also just went to the AMD website and downloaded the very latest AMD 761 miniport drivers for my AGP interface.

I will try to install the 5700 ultra again tomorrow, my butt is too lazy to try it again tonight and go through all that rigamarole. But with Via chipset drivers that are a year newer and the latest AMD drivers, who knows, it may work. I'll post in here again soon to let you know how it goes. Wish me luck and thanks for trying to help!! I think I'll unistall the Nvidia drivers using DriverCleaner utility before I power down to put the new card in again.

 

[mortoma]

Forgot to state that I have a XP-2100 Palamino processor, for what it's worth.

 

[mechBgon]

The reason for using paragraphs is so that people don't have a difficult time reading it, not because it's gonna be graded At any rate, pull out your Audigy card as a fact-finding step. I assume you know that Win98 really doesn't want over 512MB of RAM either.

 

[mortoma]

By the way, one thing that is confusing is that the Via 4 in 1 driver install wants to install miniport drivers too. Do I need both Via and AMD AGP miniport chipset drivers?? I though the APG port was connected to the nothbridge. Dont have a Asus A7M-266 diagram handy though.

 

[mortoma]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
The reason for using paragraphs is so that people don't have a difficult time reading it, not because it's gonna be graded At any rate, pull out your Audigy card as a fact-finding step. I assume you know that Win98 really doesn't want over 512MB of RAM either.

Actually Win98SE works fine with 1GB or Ram. It's only the OS itself that is limited to 512. According to my Cacheman reports, I use as much a 980Mb of my RAM during a game. If you have the proper settings and tweaks, Win98 runs fantastically with 1GB of RAM. This is a misunderstanding of huge proportions and near Urban Legend. So many people have heard that it ( Win98 ) doesn't handle over 512 they accept it as fact without any attempt to verify it, they simply believe everything they read without question.

I have run with that much RAM for over 2 years with my TI-4600 and never have had a hint of trouble. So too bad, but that's not the problem. Thanks again for trying.

 

[mechBgon]

It certainly could be that the video card is faulty, yes, or that it doesn't like the old AMD northbridge (which as you surmised, is running the AGP). Which PCI slot do you have the Audigy in?

edit: btw, here are the Asus drivers for your board: http://www.asus.com.tw/support...A7M266&Type=Latest

 

[bdjohnson]

i didn't really read your post because it is not in paragraphs (the EDIT button works please use it) but from what i've seen of your specs win 98 is the problem. i would ditch it for 2000 or XP. you'll have a much easier time.

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: bdjohnson
i didn't really read your post because it is not in paragraphs (the EDIT button works please use it) but from what i've seen of your specs win 98 is the problem. i would ditch it for 2000 or XP. you'll have a much easier time.

exactly my thoughts, 98 is ancient and any machine that fast should not be on 98

 

[boomerang]

I would try an earlier driver version. I had to set up a 98SE machine for a friend last week and the latest Nvidia drivers gave me problems. Rolled back to an earlier version and all problems were gone.

 

[mortoma]

As I have posted, any suggestion that I upgrade to WinXP will be ignored. I am unemployed and can't even afford to buy an OEM version of WinXP Pro I saw at a site the other day for only $50.00!! I will make due with my Win98, which should be able to work with the 5700 and once it does it will run awesomely for me, like Win98SE always has. I have a brother and a close friend who both have WinXP and they have nohing but trouble with it.

I have been at their houses many times to fix their problems. Even a total reinstall of XP on my brother's P4 machine did not help that much, as his computer still is unstable and causes him fits. So Win XP is not all that great either and you guys know it. Microshaft OSs will always stink a little, but truly Win98 has always been good to me, overall. This install I use now is over two years old and has a registry a thousand pages long and still runs near flawlessly, I mean with my TI-4600 anyway. I can get the 5700 to run with it, the problem is more drivers than it is Win98. But I will get it going eventually, with or without help.

 

[mortoma]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
It certainly could be that the video card is faulty, yes, or that it doesn't like the old AMD northbridge (which as you surmised, is running the AGP). Which PCI slot do you have the Audigy in?

edit: btw, here are the Asus drivers for your board: http://www.asus.com.tw/support...A7M266&Type=Latest

Thanks, but those drivers are very old!! That's one of the problems, Asus is not supporting their older cards very well. I have a newer set of Via drivers from http://forums.viaarena.com/ and some of the people over there have posted that Asus is lagging way behind in driver support. They are neglecting to update drivers for their older mobos. I also got the latest AMD 761 miniport drivers from AMDs own website. Those same drivers have been posted on that very same page you link to for about 3 years!! I am very familiar with that web page!!!


As far as the card being defective, no that's not the trouble either because yesterday my brother put it back in his computer and and it booted up and ran as if it was never out of there, we even played a few games, then we took it back out and put in his new 6800GT Ultra. I then brought the 5700 back over here to my house to
try it again today.

 

[mortoma]

I will try that Boomerang, not a bad idea at all. Thanks!! At least you're not one of those people coming in here for no other reason than to try and poke fun of the fact that I still run Win98SE. I knew that was going to happen though. There are a few in every crowd!!!!

 

[mechBgon]

I would appreciate an answer to my question about the Audigy and what slot it's in. If you want help, then stop posturing about your Win98 and cooperate a little.

 

[mortoma]

Well I have 5 slots and it's in the bottom slot, which is the only slot I've ever got it to run in. So moving it is out of the question, so is removing it, as I'm a gamer who needs sounds. I also use my computer for Mp3s and other multimedia, such as watching movies.

 

[mortoma]

I have now tried all of the last four Nvidia Win9X/ME drivers going back to 45.23, all to no avail. I will get my brother to find his original eVGA driver install CD and try their drivers too. Along with their driver install, they have a system they call ADM ( Automated Driver Management ) which supposedly scans your computer to see which chipset you use to see if you have the correct miniport drivers and then actually removes the old ones if they are not right and installs the appropriate ones. At least that's what it says on the box it came in. The bro never gave me that CD, hope he can find it. I'm now convinced it has something to do with the miniport drivers and my old mobo chipset and not Win98. Let's hope that my bro finds the install disk for the factory drivers and that the "ADM" works as well as eVGA claims it does.

 

[farscape]

I'm glad for you that 98 SE runs as well as you say for you but, I found that most probs I've ever had were 98SE machines. Lot of MBs for me that would load vanilla 98 and (shudder)ME(shudder), wanted to choke when loading SE. Glad that you got a good one.

Via's site normally tell you to get the AMD drivers from you MB manufacturer, and that I suppose is the crux of your prob - classic driver conflict.

Also, the fact that your registry is half a gazzillion pages long, might (but I could be wrong - I'm not perfect yet, I've got a lot to learn yet) have a bit of bearing on your present problem.

The vast majority of people here are glad to help in any way that they can - some, as mech are much better than others - get off the horse and give an ear to listen a bit. We all can learn.

 

[mortoma]

Well, you probably had trouble loading Win98SE because you might have tried to install it with all the PCI hardware cards already put in. For some reason, Win98SE is only happy if you install it with only the video card, then add sound cards and what have you after the install is finished, one at a time. SE is picky about that type of thing, moreso than any other OS before or since. But what I said is a good practice for installing any OS, reduces the strain of installation.

Still working on my problem with the 5700 ultra card and still no resolution. Seems like it's now more to do with the 5700 ultra not liking my NEC Multisync FE700 monitor. It's the monitor that is shutting down!! I noticed a "click" sound whenever it goes black. But I tried reducing the refresh rate all the way down to 60hz in safe mode but still no joy. The AGP miniport drivers are not a problem after all, nor is the chipset in general. Going to try using a different monitor if my brother lets me borrow his LCD flatscreen!! Wish me luck again.

 

[mortoma]

Originally posted by: farscape
I'm glad for you that 98 SE runs as well as you say for you but, I found that most probs I've ever had were 98SE machines. Lot of MBs for me that would load vanilla 98 and (shudder)ME(shudder), wanted to choke when loading SE. Glad that you got a good one.

Via's site normally tell you to get the AMD drivers from you MB manufacturer, and that I suppose is the crux of your prob - classic driver conflict.

Also, the fact that your registry is half a gazzillion pages long, might (but I could be wrong - I'm not perfect yet, I've got a lot to learn yet) have a bit of bearing on your present problem.

The vast majority of people here are glad to help in any way that they can - some, as mech are much better than others - get off the horse and give an ear to listen a bit. We all can learn.

Another thing that kills SE during install is if you have just flashed your bios. In that case you have to reset the bios to default settings and set it up all over again from scatch. This happened to me once and I could not
get SE installed for anything until I figured that out.

As far as the Via driver thing you mentioned, the only reason they suggest that is because older AMD mobos like mine originally used a "3 in 1" driver for the chipset. Because one part of my chipset was AMD ( northbridge) and one part was VIA ( southbridge ). Now Via uses a 4 in 1 driver set. You can use newer 4 in 1 drivers from Via if ( with mobos like mine ) if you don't install the miniport driver during the VIA installation process. Then after you install just the 3 parts of the VIA drivers, you install AMD AGP miniport drivers for the northbidge part separately. Thankfully, mobo manufacturers now steer clear of "mixed" chipsets like my mob has. Also it's nice that VIA has a installation routine which lets you select what you need or don't need. They are afraid most people aren't geeky enough to figure this stuff out and install VIA miniports on an AMD northbridge. The results would be less than stable if you did that. I know better so I only install 3 out of 4 Via drivers and do the AMD minport thing later. So thanks but that's not the problem in this case.

By the way, I exaggerated about my registry a bit!! But it does have a lot of stuff in it, since I have a ton if programs installed with my Win98 install.

 

[farscape]

I'm one of those:

Install opsys with bare minimum parts - restart, defrag, install next piece, restart, defrag... kind of people.

Have gone through the mixed sets and the oddball Via/Nforce qwerks - lots of t-shooting printouts.

And yes, it took a while for me to migrate to 2K and/or XP. - Won't go back if I can help it, But even I have to still work on them sometimes.