Futuremark: Mantle and DirectX 12 said to be similar in performance

[AnandThenMan]

APIs that lock you too a hardware vendor are bad for the customer. They splinter the market. Hardware PhysX is just as bad in this respect.

APIs that lock to you a proprietary OS/OS version are not so great either. It's a big reason DirectX stagnated which is why Mantle is receiving credit for giving Microsoft the jolt needed to clean up DirectX. From the very beginning AMD has shared the full specification of Mantle with Microsoft.

The initial iteration of Mantle is intended specifically for Windows on PCs.​

So at least there is potential for Mantle to show up under Linux and perhaps OSX.

And as soon as DX12 hits, Mantle will become a footnote in history.

We shall see. This is your opinion only.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Seems like a somewhat meaningless gesture to make Mantle open source (supposedly, it hasnt actually happened yet), now that DX12 is a year or less away. Not sure why any vendor other than AMD (or one receiving support from AMD) would even be interested now that a very similar API (apparently), is going to be available that will run on all hardware.

 

[Carfax83]

And post these benches and info on the Nvidia driver I have not seen anything on this.

DX12 benchmark

Forza 5 ported to DX12 and ran on Titan black

DX12 and 3D Mark

 

[geoxile]

You're absolutely dreaming if you think anyone outside AMD is going to support Mantle. And as soon as DX12 hits, Mantle will become a footnote in history.

As for multi-vendor support, what chance does that have if it can't even run properly on AMD's own hardware? Has the 285's Mantle performance in Thief and BF4 been patched yet? Or do we just pretend this serious design flaw doesn't exit?

What happens if by some miracle Intel and nVidia support Mantle? Can we expect every Mantle game to receive constant patches by the developer every time one of the three vendors release new graphics cards?

Because if we don't we'll have a repeat of the 285 situation across all three vendors.

Uh-huh... Mantle having support for third party hardware, i.e. being generic, has no relation to whether third party IHVs actually support it. One is a faculty of the API design and the other is just business politics.

BF4 is a an early version of Mantle that was only designed to support GCN 1 and 1.1. Your conjecture is beyond pointless since it's based on early builds that were designed targeting different hardware. We already know the final version is intended to be generic so it's imperative that AMD and DICE fix those problems. We'll see in future products how exactly the final version handles genericism.

 

[Silverforce11]

Mantle is likely to remain AMD specific, their engineers/PR have publicly stated in interviews that they fully intend on further developing Mantle so that it will not be obsolete once DX12 is mainstream. Their goals will be to enhance rendering on their GPUs, not just to reduce draw call overhead.

DICE & AMD people have publicly hinted at similarities of Mantle & DX12, that's the only valid information we have. The rest, is speculation.

 

[AnandThenMan]

DX12 benchmark

Forza 5 ported to DX12 and ran on Titan black

DX12 and 3D Mark

Thanks. Looks like the stuff is still in the early stages of development.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Thank you AMD. Without Mantle we wouldn't be seeing these improvements with DX12. :thumbsup:

 

[geoxile]

Seems like a somewhat meaningless gesture to make Mantle open source (supposedly, it hasnt actually happened yet), now that DX12 is a year or less away. Not sure why any vendor other than AMD (or one receiving support from AMD) would even be interested now that a very similar API (apparently), is going to be available that will run on all hardware.

Again:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc2Mzc

Richard Huddy of AMD spoke at SIGGRAPH yesterday and mentioned that they've already been collaborating with Khronos over "OpenGL-Next" and "AMD has given the organization unfettered access to Mantle and told them, in so many words, 'This is how we do it. If you want to take the same approach, go ahead.' Khronos is free to take as many pages as it wants out of the Mantle playbook, and AMD will impose no restrictions, nor will it charge any licensing fees."

Even if the development of Mantle's main branch remains closed AMD has opened up the design to the Khronos consortium, which includes all the major IHVs and many more hardware and software companies.

 

[AnandThenMan]

...AMD has opened up the design to the Khronos consortium,

They have done the same thing for Microsoft.

 

[Ryanrenesis]

If this is true, I'm glad I bought AMD GPUs for Mantle then! Mantle is already here while DX12 is far off and who knows how well DX12 will actually run once games support it. I guess only time will tell.

I do hope the R9 200 series will get DX12 support though, some versatility is always nice. If Xbox One will support DX12, I don't see why AMD GPUs won't be able to support it as well.

 

[ocre]

Mantle is still in beta form.

So is DX12.

Up into this point, AMD has let some of their customers with specific HW beta test mantle.

So many of the statements on this thread dont make sense. AMD still has Mantle in beta, and they have only targeted a small handful of HW support. It is simply not the scenario that is being painted out to be. If AMD doesnt get on the ball, M$ could actually be launching soon after Mantle officially launches. Or even worse, M$ may officially launch DX12 before Mantle comes out of beta

 

[AnandThenMan]

Mantle was never designed to replace DX, so what you're saying doesn't apply.

 

[ocre]

I dont think you gathered what i was saying.

its geared towards the statements suggesting AMD was much more efficient at implementing mantle than M$ is at DX12.

 

[AtenRa]

Mantle is still in beta form.

So is DX12.

Up into this point, AMD has let some of their customers with specific HW beta test mantle.

So many of the statements on this thread dont make sense. AMD still has Mantle in beta, and they have only targeted a small handful of HW support. It is simply not the scenario that is being painted out to be. If AMD doesnt get on the ball, M$ could actually be launching soon after Mantle officially launches. Or even worse, M$ may officially launch DX12 before Mantle comes out of beta

Every GCN GPU from 2011 onwards and every GCN APU available supports Mantle, from low R7 240 to R9 290X and every Kaveri APU. That is not a small handful of HW.

 

[Wild Thing]

Why is that strange?

Mantle: works on a handful of cherry picked cards, is still in beta and not even finished, and still has issues.There's still no sign of the 285 getting performance fixes for BF4 or Thief.

DX12: tied to the OS driver model and needs to be multi-vendor and non-beta.

Microsoft doesn't have the luxury of RTM'ing a product in the state that Mantle is currently in.

Care to elaborate on that claim?
As the head of the anti-Mantle coalition here I'm sure your reasoning and explanation will be of great interest to those of us who think,on balance,that Mantle has proven itself a worthy addition to PC gamers.

Infraction issued for inflammatory language and personal attack. One day off for accumulation of points.
-- stahlhart

 

[garagisti]

The fact that NVidia already has a working DX12 driver, and there are several benchmarks from various IHVs and ISVs tell me that it's not that far off..

Officially though, we can expect it to ship with Windows 10 like BFG10K said.

IIRC, Nvidia only supports certain features of dx12, not the entire thing. They did the same with dx10(not going to go into it, its a long story), dx11 was also partially supported.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Its pretty obvious Mantle pushed Microsoft into action. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

 

[guskline]

Thank you AMD. Without Mantle we wouldn't be seeing these improvements with DX12. :thumbsup:

I agree.

 

[Spjut]

Every GCN GPU from 2011 onwards and every GCN APU available supports Mantle, from low R7 240 to R9 290X and every Kaveri APU. That is not a small handful of HW.

And DX12 won't be supported on AMD's pre-GCN architectures either

 

[AtenRa]

And DX12 won't be supported on AMD's pre-GCN architectures either

And ?? DX-12 wont be supported on NVIDIAs pre Fermi architecture.

But when DX-12 will be release late next year, pre-GCN cards will be 4-5 year old or more. Dont believe anyone will care about it

 

[SPBHM]

Every GCN GPU from 2011 onwards and every GCN APU available supports Mantle, from low R7 240 to R9 290X and every Kaveri APU. That is not a small handful of HW.

GCN was not available for consumers in 2011, only 2012 onwards, APUs only 2014; compared to the amount of older AMD GPUs/IGPs+ Nvidia + Intel it's a small portion of the market, DX12 will target anything new from Intel, AMD and Nvidia.

 

[Spjut]

And ?? DX-12 wont be supported on NVIDIAs pre Fermi architecture.

But when DX-12 will be release late next year, pre-GCN cards will be 4-5 year old or more. Dont believe anyone will care about it

I didn't intend for it to sound negative.

I just wanted to point out that AMD's DX12 support will be limited to the HD 7000 series and later, just like Mantle is.

It's always said that AMD only supports Mantle on the GCN cards, but it's just the same deal with AMD's support DirectX 12.
Mantle could also still have a larger userbase due to it working on Windows 7 and 8/8.1.

 

[Haserath]

And ?? DX-12 wont be supported on NVIDIAs pre Fermi architecture.

But when DX-12 will be release late next year, pre-GCN cards will be 4-5 year old or more. Dont believe anyone will care about it

That's actually a fairly significant support gap, but I wonder how well a GTX 460/560 Ti will handle Dx12 games anyway. 1GB of ram will be limiting fairly soon even if the processor can take it.

 

[Mem]

And DX12 won't be supported on AMD's pre-GCN architectures either

I guess it's also good for those older Operating Systems that won't support DX12,those AMD GCN cards can go with Mantle where supported.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remember DX12 and DX11.3.

Only a tiny niche of the combined game segment, AAA type or heavily sponsored games, will actually have DX12 paths. Everything else will run DX11.3 or older.

Its all about economics.