Future charges possible, Dems warn White House

BBond

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Oct 3, 2004
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If there is any justice left in this nation at all Bush will face it whether during or after his term expires.

:)

Future charges possible, Dems warn White House

Edward Epstein, Chronicle Washington Bureau

Saturday, January 21, 2006

Washington -- House Democrats warned President Bush, top leaders of his administration and officials of the National Security Agency on Friday that if the political climate changes they could face criminal prosecution for ordering and carrying out warrantless domestic eavesdropping.

"These are clearly crimes and the statute of limitations extends beyond this president's term,'' which will end in January 2009, said Rep. Jerry Nadler D-N.Y., at an ad hoc hearing called by House Judiciary Committee's Democrats to assail Bush's contention that his order for warrantless domestic wiretaps on American citizens is legal.

Another member, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Pasadena, said, "I hope the administration ceases and desists, at least out of respect for their own liability.''

Democrats gathered in a basement meeting room of the Rayburn House Office Building because the House's Republican leaders wouldn't grant access to the Judiciary Committee's regular room. So far, the House committee hasn't scheduled any hearings into the domestic eavesdropping furor.

Bush critics say the security agency activities ordered by the president are illegal. Some have called for appointment of a special counsel to look into the issue, but House Democrats suggested they would launch investigative hearings if they win control of the House in November's elections.

They would need a net gain of 15 seats to retake the House, which Republicans have controlled since the 1994 election. Democrats held the informal hearing on Friday to press Republicans to investigate the eavesdropping.

"The House should be having hearings, official hearings with subpoena power, to look into this and to take action. I hope that this hearing will lead to that,'' Nadler added. "I do not trust that it will because I do not believe that the current leaders of this House have the gumption to stand up for the Constitution. I hope I'm proved wrong.''

The administration staunchly defends the domestic spying program, which was disclosed by the New York Times in mid-December, stirring a continuing controversy. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales issued a 42-page legal white paper on Thursday saying Bush acted within his powers as a wartime president to prevent another terrorist strike on the United States.

The president doesn't have to comply with the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which requires a warrant for domestic eavesdropping in cases involving suspected foreign agents, because Congress gave him extraordinary powers when it authorized the use of force against al Qaeda in October 2001, Gonzales added. Many in Congress dispute that notion, saying the legislative history shows the idea of giving the president such power was considered, but was dropped from the final resolution.

The Justice Department also contended that Bush's inherent wartime powers trump the Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable or warrantless searches.

To Bush critics, it's all legal doubletalk.

"Our forefathers understood that 'trust me' was not good enough for protecting civil liberties,'' Bruce Fein, an associate deputy attorney general under Republican former President Ronald Reagan, told the Democrats' ad hoc meeting.

Fein said he believes Bush broke the law in ordering the domestic activity by the National Security Agency. He also said that because the war on terrorism is open-ended, Bush's assertion of special powers would amount to a long-term loss of civil liberties.

Asked if Bush's actions constitute the high crimes and misdemeanors sufficient for impeaching him, George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley said he felt they did.

"If you believe the president violated criminal provisions of the law, I don't see how it wouldn't qualify. ... If the president commits a criminal act, you are obligated to hold impeachment hearings,'' Turley said.

While the House Judiciary Committee has not scheduled any hearings into the snooping, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., has scheduled a Feb. 6 session to question Gonzales.

In preparation for that testimony, the White House has begun a campaign to woo public opinion.

On Wednesday, Bush will visit the top-secret National Security Agency headquarters at Ford Meade, Md., just outside Washington.

Gonzales is scheduled to give a speech about the program Tuesday. Deputy national intelligence director Mike Hayden, who headed the security agency when Bush started the program in October 2001, is scheduled to speak Monday at the National Press Club.

"We are stepping up our efforts to educate the American people," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

"This is a critical tool that helps us save lives and prevent attacks," he said. "It is limited and targeted to al Qaeda communications, with the focus being on detection and prevention."

The Bush administration says that it informed congressional leaders of both parties about the program over the past four years and that no one objected.

Two of the Democrats who were briefed, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco and Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, said they raised objections, and they have produced declassified letters they wrote early on to back up their claims. They say they didn't do more because of secrecy rules involving intelligence briefings.

But on Friday, they joined two other top Democrats, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Rep. Jane Harman of Rancho Palos Verdes (Los Angeles County), in sending Vice President Dick Cheney a letter asking that in the future, all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees be briefed on secret programs.

"The people's elected representatives are entitled to much more information about this program than the administration has thus far provided,'' said the letter, which was addressed to Cheney because he has been involved in the congressional briefings.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
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I dont agree with the democratic plan to wait until after elections. If the shoe was on the other foot there would be freeper demonstrations on the white house lawn and every GOP legislator would be red in the face screaming for impeachment.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: OrByte
I dont agree with the democratic plan to wait until after elections. If the shoe was on the other foot there would be freeper demonstrations on the white house lawn and every GOP legislator would be red in the face screaming for impeachment.


Not much more they can do, the republicans decide what gets a hearing, and for the most part what gets investigated. Now if they get the house or senate or both the republicans will be in trouble. To many Americans don't understand that the democrats have very little to no power atm, and the only voice is through the media. Alot of my friends didn't realize this until I told them.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.


Man you just want the win at any cost dont you...pathetic
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Yup just like those hard driving 3400 word questions for the truth we got in the Alito hearings right?

Good luck with that.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
106
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.


The Republicans kept Clinton under investigation for about 6 years and took all three branches .... you saying the same rules don't apply?

Personally I think if half the investigations are fruitfull the republicans are going to be done for an election cycle or two. Currently in the Queue we have Ambramoff (Repubs and possibly Bush), Plame Case (Bush Admin), all the K-Street crap (Abramoff, Medicare D), Downing Street (Bush Admin and neo cons in general and how that all ties to pushing for the Iraq War), and possible election tampering (Repubs, Diebold).

There is just so much corruption /potential corruption and it can only be hidden for so long. Some of these things have been out of the news for awhile, but I bet they will be back when the dems actually have the power to something about them. Shoot, the Abramoff Scandal alone could possibly effect upto 20% of congress, mainly republicans.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Yup just like those hard driving 3400 word questions for the truth we got in the Alito hearings right?

Good luck with that.

Diversion #1

you didnt answer my question. How many fallacious arguments are you going to introduce in this particular thread?
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
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Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Putting Bush on trial has nothing to do with getting to the truth. We already know what happened.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
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0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

Seriously doubt they could get 30 seats in the house pushing 10 would be a reach.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Yup just like those hard driving 3400 word questions for the truth we got in the Alito hearings right?

Good luck with that.

Diversion #1

you didnt answer my question. How many fallacious arguments are you going to introduce in this particular thread?

Hardly a diversion, just a preview of what we can expect when it comes time to get to the truth from a democratic investigation.

The US public deserves the truth, but I doubt that is what we will see in any kind of congressional investigation as blatantly partisan as this.



 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Putting Bush on trial has nothing to do with getting to the truth. We already know what happened.

no no first you people go on spouting about the fact that we have no facts. Now we supposedly know what happened? when did THAT happen??

"isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?"

oh and Diversion #2

so far two diversion and 0 questions answered.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.


The Republicans kept Clinton under investigation for about 6 years and took all three branches .... you saying the same rules don't apply?

Personally I think if half the investigations are fruitfull the republicans are going to be done for an election cycle or two. Currently in the Queue we have Ambramoff (Repubs and possibly Bush), Plame Case (Bush Admin), all the K-Street crap (Abramoff, Medicare D), Downing Street (Bush Admin and neo cons in general and how that all ties to pushing for the Iraq War), and possible election tampering (Repubs, Diebold).

There is just so much corruption /potential corruption and it can only be hidden for so long. Some of these things have been out of the news for awhile, but I bet they will be back when the dems actually have the power to something about them. Shoot, the Abramoff Scandal alone could possibly effect upto 20% of congress, mainly republicans.

What you fail to realize is the American public has been blanketed with all of the above by the media and yet the American public doesnt care.

All they will see is a vengeful,hateful, howard dean like investigation that will backfire in the dems face. Not to mention the amount of hypocracy that is easily exposed on the democrats. I am personally going to enjoy any real investigation into the Abramhoff story because I have a feeling it will slap both parties silly.





 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Yup just like those hard driving 3400 word questions for the truth we got in the Alito hearings right?

Good luck with that.

Diversion #1

you didnt answer my question. How many fallacious arguments are you going to introduce in this particular thread?

Hardly a diversion, just a preview of what we can expect when it comes time to get to the truth from a democratic investigation.

The US public deserves the truth, but I doubt that is what we will see in any kind of congressional investigation as blatantly partisan as this.
you will forgive me if I, a person of the US public, try and find answers to my questions.

again, isn't that what we want as americans? answers?

aren't there politicians asking for an independent investigation? what is good enough for Clinton and Kenneth Starr should be good enough for Bush and Fitzpatrick (is it Fitzpatrick? I forget)





 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
106
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

Seriously doubt they could get 30 seats in the house pushing 10 would be a reach.


Actually if they gain 15, the repubs lose 15 ... so 16 and they have it, and that isn't counting the 1 independant.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
0
0
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

Seriously doubt they could get 30 seats in the house pushing 10 would be a reach.


Actually if they gain 15, the repubs lose 15 ... so 16 and they have it, and that isn't counting the 1 independant.

True, but the likeliness of that happening is close to zero.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
106
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

Seriously doubt they could get 30 seats in the house pushing 10 would be a reach.


Actually if they gain 15, the repubs lose 15 ... so 16 and they have it, and that isn't counting the 1 independant.

True, but the likeliness of that happening is close to zero.


Lets see what happens with the Ambramoff scandals. Alot can happen in the next 10 months.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
106
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

why? isn't getting to the truth what we, as americans, want?

Yup just like those hard driving 3400 word questions for the truth we got in the Alito hearings right?

Good luck with that.

Diversion #1

you didnt answer my question. How many fallacious arguments are you going to introduce in this particular thread?

Hardly a diversion, just a preview of what we can expect when it comes time to get to the truth from a democratic investigation.

The US public deserves the truth, but I doubt that is what we will see in any kind of congressional investigation as blatantly partisan as this.
you will forgive me if I, a person of the US public, try and find answers to my questions.

again, isn't that what we want as americans? answers?

aren't there politicians asking for an independent investigation? what is good enough for Clinton and Kenneth Starr should be good enough for Bush and Fitzpatrick (is it Fitzpatrick? I forget)

The CIA started the Fitzpatrick (Plame investigation) on their own behalf, Starr was strictly a Republican thing.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
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0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

You forget, Dubya and the Republicans really aren't all that popular. If the Democrats impeach on real charges, not phoney-baloney blowjob charges, and win, I think it will improve their chances in '08. I get the feeling that a lot of Republicans are sick of the Bush regime's corruption.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

You forget, Dubya and the Republicans really aren't all that popular. If the Democrats impeach on real charges, not phoney-baloney blowjob charges, and win, I think it will improve their chances in '08. I get the feeling that a lot of Republicans are sick of the Bush regime's corruption.

Most polls dont put the democrats in any better light. Think people will decide to go with twiddle dee or twiddle dumb?

Chances are local elections may not be overly affected by national issues like Abramhoff and instead focus on the candidates running. Unless of course said candidate is under investigation.

btw we went over this in another thread. Ken Starr's investigation put 12 people behind bars. That sounds pretty real to me.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
106
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

You forget, Dubya and the Republicans really aren't all that popular. If the Democrats impeach on real charges, not phoney-baloney blowjob charges, and win, I think it will improve their chances in '08. I get the feeling that a lot of Republicans are sick of the Bush regime's corruption.


If Bush gets impeached / or impeached and aquitted, and still has 70%+ approval then the dems are in trouble :)

edit: A flashback of the politcal climate at Clintons Impeachment / Aquittal
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Genx87,
do you want an investigation into the aligations against Bush and co?
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Genx87
Democrats never learn do they?
Start up trials if they get the house in 06 and watch as their hopes for 08 vanish.

You forget, Dubya and the Republicans really aren't all that popular. If the Democrats impeach on real charges, not phoney-baloney blowjob charges, and win, I think it will improve their chances in '08. I get the feeling that a lot of Republicans are sick of the Bush regime's corruption.


What pretty much the whole of the US is really sick of is the great Dim leadership popping their heads out of their respective whack a mole holes at every slim opportunity and grasping for the most feeble of straws. They keep trying and failing, since 2001. They have never accomplished anything with their constant attacks except for getting really great name recognition - all negative! I hope they do continue to go for it. They look worse at every failed effort.