Fury X profit margin?

[digitaldurandal]

I was looking at the performance of Fury X that was posted from the leaked review package estimates. It is nice to see it beating the 980ti even if it is only on AMD chosen benchmarks.

However I have some concern about the profit margins achieved. It is competing with a product from NV that is a cutdown chip from Titan which presumably already made great margins before AMD could release an answer.

To compete they have used a larger die, a CLC, and HBM.

Do we have any estimation on the profit margin AMD can expect on these chips?

EDIT: fixed smaller to larger

 

[JDG1980]

The Fiji GPU (596 mm^2) is only a tiny bit smaller than the GM200 (601 mm^2). Both products are being manufactured at TSMC (despite earlier rumors that Fiji would be produced by GloFo). Therefore, we can assume that the cost of the raw dice is about the same for both AMD and Nvidia.

From what I've heard, the interposer is not a very expensive part, since it's basically just a glorified mini-PCB fabbed on an outdated (65nm?) process. Figure it adds a few bucks to the bill of materials, but not much more.

The real wild card is the HBM. I don't think anyone has firm numbers on how much more HBM costs than GDDR5. We're pretty sure it is going to be more expensive, simply because AMD is the first commercial user and there's always an early-adopter tax. But we don't know how much. This is offset by the fact that the Fury is using only 4GB of HBM, while the GTX 980 Ti uses 6GB of GDDR5. So if HBM was only 50% more expensive than GDDR5, it would be a wash. However, it's more likely that the difference is bigger than that. If HBM is two times, three times, even five times as expensive as GDDR5 per GB - that could make a big difference in profit margins. We don't know.

The CLC probably costs about $50-$75 in bulk. Keep in mind they've got a good-quality, expensive fan from Nidec in there. Then again, the NVTTM cooler isn't the cheapest, either; I've heard that it costs $40-$60 in bulk. (The GM204-based cards use a cheaper variant that omits the vapor chamber.)

 

[chimaxi83]

I'm curious. What difference does it make? Why should anybody but AMD and it's investors care? Are you an investor? Why does it matter what the profit margin is? Why is this important? What is the discussion you're trying to start?

Those are real questions.

Also, wrong forum.

The AMD and Nvidia graphics sub-forums are intended primarily for members who are owners of the respective hardware to seek out and offer peer level technical support, compare and contrast performance and results with other owners, discuss driver updates and installation issues, firmware/cooling modifications, etc.

They are NOT intended for debate, rumor speculation, comparisons between competing brands, or company/business related news. The general Video Cards & Graphics forum is the place for this, as was the case previously. Confine these areas of discussion there, and stop it here immediately.

Consider this your first warning.

 

[stahlhart]

Moved to general discussion area.
-- stahlhart

 

[digitaldurandal]

I'm curious. What difference does it make? Why should anybody but AMD and it's investors care? Are you an investor? Why does it matter what the profit margin is? Why is this important? What is the discussion you're trying to start?

Those are real questions.

Also, wrong forum.

Why do you care why I care? Are you my broker? Why wouldn't it matter what the margin is? Why isn't it important? The question I am asking is pretty clear but feel free to reread the post, it is in text so it is easily available to you.

If this should be on the general forum can a mod please move it.

 

[ComputerGuy2006]

I think we can give AMD a small pass here, because they are using HBM, a new tech that took some R&D to develop. I blame nvidia here, all AMD is doing is following nvidia pricing.

It is up to us as customers to not buy these cards at these prices and send a message.

 

[RaulF]

Why do you care why I care? Are you my broker? Why wouldn't it matter what the margin is? Why isn't it important? The question I am asking is pretty clear but feel free to reread the post, it is in text so it is easily available to you.



If this should be on the general forum can a mod please move it.

Probably because it is a very add post that you made.

I am going to go ahead and say what's on my mind and I'll take the hit from mods if I have to!

What is your end game? Are you here to start more FUD for AMD? Did Nvidia sent you?
Very suspicious the way you answer. After being confronted about it.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Probably because it is a very add post that you made.

I am going to go ahead and say what's on my mind and I'll take the hit from mods if I have to!

What is your end game? Are you here to start more FUD for AMD? Did Nvidia sent you?
Very suspicious the way you answer. After being confronted about it.

Yes Nvidia sent me to ask what the profit margin of the latest AMD flagship is. Their top budget was spent to have me become a member of these forums for years. They had me purchase AMD hardware and post multiple times defending AMD from user comments flaming them (see history.) All to setup for this coup de grace - this strategic intelligence gathering post on... Anandtech.

Have you struck your head recently? Is English your first language?

 

[tviceman]

There are plenty of assumptions that would have to be made to figure out AMD's profit margin for a $650 Fury X.

1. On the yield side of things, it's very similary to GM200 size but packs more transistors, which means it's likely, but not guaranteed, to have more defective units.

2. What is the cost of on-die memory as opposed to GDDR5?

3. How complex and difficult is it to manufacture the interposer?

4. How often are there defects in the on-die memory that prevents a chip from any chance at getting salvaged?

5. Is Fiji going to be sold as a Fire Pro card? The higher prices would substantially help subsidize the lower cost of a desktop gaming card.

 

[96Firebird]

Yes Nvidia sent me to ask what the profit margin of the latest AMD flagship is. Their top budget was spent to have me become a member of these forums for years. They had me purchase AMD hardware and post multiple times defending AMD from user comments flaming them (see history.) All to setup for this coup de grace - this strategic intelligence gathering post on... Anandtech.

:thumbsup:

It's weird that so many posters are claiming there are drones of paid Nvidia shills to rain on AMD's parade. It's almost like any time something even remotely negative is said about AMD or its products, people are jumping down that person's throat. I don't care what people think about me so I'll say whatever comes to mind, but others may be afraid to speak their mind for fear of being called a fanboy or shill... It's sad, really.

As for the topic at hand, I was wondering the same thing earlier... I don't think AMD ever planned to release Fury at such a low price, until the 980 Ti launched and they had to re-evaluate things. Of course we'll probably never know the truth, but I can't imagine the Fury with a CLC solution and HBM is cheaper to produce than the 980 Ti. Does the 980 Ti even have the vapor chamber that came on the original Titan?

 

[gdansk]

Remember TSMC's 28nm is a mature process. But we do not have any available information from reliable sources.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

As for the topic at hand, I was wondering the same thing earlier... I don't think AMD ever planned to release Fury at such a low price, until the 980 Ti launched and they had to re-evaluate things.

$650 is a low price?

Though I thought 700 or 750 would be more likely for the 980Ti 650 still is quite a bit.

 

[JDG1980]

Does the 980 Ti even have the vapor chamber that came on the original Titan?

Yes, it does. Fortunately, TechPowerUp has the necessary pictures for comparison.

Here's a photo of the original Titan cooler. Here is one from the GTX 980 Ti. The undersides are exactly the same, and W1zzard notes that the GTX 980 Ti cooler does indeed have a vapor chamber base.

In contrast, the underside of the GTX 980 cooler is visibly different, and lacks the vapor chamber.

 

[maddie]

I was looking at the performance of Fury X that was posted from the leaked review package estimates. It is nice to see it beating the 980ti even if it is only on AMD chosen benchmarks.

However I have some concern about the profit margins achieved. It is competing with a product from NV that is a cutdown chip from Titan which presumably already made great margins before AMD could release an answer.

To compete they have used a larger die, a CLC, and HBM.

Do we have any estimation on the profit margin AMD can expect on these chips?

EDIT: fixed smaller to larger

I think you are a bit ignorant of what 'cutdown chip', your words, actually means in this case.

It means that a portion of the die is not working. Either through flaws in manufacturing or deliberately fused off to manufacture/sell for a specific price/performance target.

You see the 980Ti is the same size ASIC as TitanX and is bigger than Fiji, admittedly by a tiny amount, thus effectively equal in size.

 

[Subyman]

This is going no where
Moderator Subyman