Further proof we must always stand vigilant to protect out freedom

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
The government also defines what punishment DWI's get and can "at ANY time with the flick of the pen completely re-classify those two terms and take what little is left."

What's your point....?...keep in mind that we don;t tolerate that end-of-the-world-evil-conspiracy-threard-where-the-government-wants-to-put-
your-head-on-a-platter-so-GWBUSH-can-eat-it-for-dinner-with-Rummy-crap in here

On your first point, the difference is disctinct. On one hand, that flick of the pen re-classifies already existing criminals. Driving under the influence is illegal, whether the government decides the punishment is a day in jail or crushing your car is beside the point, thats an after the fact issue. You were a criminal before and after the "flick of the pen"
In the instance of gun owners and gun laws, I could be a legal, responsibluy gun owners today and tomorrow with a "flick of the pen" I'm suddenly a criminal, whether or not I've done anything different. Simply because the government wants to slowly erode our rights I've went from a responsible gun owner to a criminal. I havent killed anyone. I havent threatened anyone. Hell, I may not have even had my rifle out of the safe between then and now, and yet suddenly I'ma criminal that will be pursued and tried to the fullest extent of the law.

To the second point, thats fine. We all know Rummy doesnt like brains, but prefers liver. 😉

I see. You are correct. I just sued your example since it was available, but now see my shortsidedness in pickign it as an argument😱

I guess what I meant to point out was based more on the concept and real-life applicability of rights and priveledges in a developed society. It is important to realize that for the society to thrive, laws will be changed, and certain rights/priveledges might be curtailed.

At first thought, this soudns appaling to many, but the truth of the matter is that, in small doeses, reduction of priveldges allows for and increase of freedoms that have not been considered. For example, reduction in gun ownership might have positive effects in many districts where incidents of misfires of accidental shootings. That is one less thing for the government to worry about. In addition, as society continues to further itself, the need need for personal defense decreases greatly. Finally, reduction of arms can create a logical stepping stone from moving to the primitive method of settlign disputes by force to a more judicial method such as small claims court.

That is one side of the Argument.

Others are worried that gun-control eaves us "wide open," and to a certain extent, it does. Crime is a seemingly omnipresent force allthroughout the world, and many feel that by disarmign the general populous, we are inticing crime. This is what makes gun-control and liberties such a complex issue.

Guarented safety is such a large issue simply because peopel do not understand that we need to both proctect ourselves from deviants and outsiders, and at the same time, from ourselves.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

It may be said of the Cold War that the only reason we are free to type calmly on a spring Saturday morning in 2005 is because each of our Ohio-class submarines carries enough firepower to destroy the world many times over, in both direct attacks and the eventual retribution....


It is foolish of anyone to either blindly trust humanity or refuse to see the good in it as well...

 

[Sheepathon]

WTF is this doing in OT

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Yes, ignore the troll.

 

[EmoHawk]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Wasn't trying to bait you, just trying to show you that theres another way of thinking about the issue.

Do you have a gun? If your not able to own one, when you are able, are you going to get one? Would you own one illegaly? Where do you live? What are the gun laws like where you live?

 

[EmoHawk]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Yes, ignore the troll.

Try to be a little less paranoid, not everyone is waiting for an excuse to flame 😉.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: EmoHawk

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Wasn't trying to bait you, just trying to show you that theres another way of thinking about the issue.

Do you have a gun? If your not able to own one, when you are able, are you going to get one? Would you own one illegaly? Where do you live? What are the gun laws like where you live?

Wow....you are so quick to pull the trigger....

 

[geecee]

No...must resist...urge to post...help...topic...too...serious...head...exploding...
😛

 

[Lynx516]

In the UK we had an incident where a bloke went into a school and started shooting. Due to a large national uproar e.t.c and the fact that we dont feel it is our sacred right to own a gun hand guns where outlawed. Now pretty much only farmers and game keepers can own a gun which is fine by me as very few people hunt (as most people live in a town or city) and suprisingly having fewer guns prevents people from a) shooting people in anger because there is a gun near by b) kids getting hold of them to "play" with and killing someone c) People who are disgrunteld going into their workplace/school and shooting at people.

If you can tell me a valid reason to hold a gun apart from that of a job I will be surprised. This "protection" thing isnt that good because if lots of people have a gun then isnt it just possible that the robber has a gun and doesnt he have more to loose then you?

 

[EmoHawk]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: EmoHawk

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Wasn't trying to bait you, just trying to show you that theres another way of thinking about the issue.

Do you have a gun? If your not able to own one, when you are able, are you going to get one? Would you own one illegaly? Where do you live? What are the gun laws like where you live?

Wow....you are so quick to pull the trigger....

Look I'm not baiting anyone, sry if it seems that way. I have lived in the UK all my life and have been bought up in a culture that is for the most part gun free. I have only had a small amount of contact with guns through sport shooting. I am also unaware about how real people in the US view the ownership of guns, I have only had the CNN spin. SO please stop looking for things that aren't there.

 

[Pliablemoose]

It'll happen here too someday (gun confiscation) 9/11 slowed it down a bit, but the anti's will win eventually.🙁

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: EmoHawk

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: EmoHawk

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Wasn't trying to bait you, just trying to show you that theres another way of thinking about the issue.

Do you have a gun? If your not able to own one, when you are able, are you going to get one? Would you own one illegaly? Where do you live? What are the gun laws like where you live?

Wow....you are so quick to pull the trigger....

Look I'm not baiting anyone, sry if it seems that way. I have lived in the UK all my life and have been bought up in a culture that is for the most part gun free. I have only had a small amount of contact with guns through sport shooting. I am also unaware about how real people in the US view the ownership of guns, I have only had the CNN spin. SO please stop looking for things that aren't there.

Ah, but CNN is not the best source for information.

 

[Snapster]

Originally posted by: Lynx516


In the UK we had an incident where a bloke went into a school and started shooting. Due to a large national uproar e.t.c and the fact that we dont feel it is our sacred right to own a gun hand guns where outlawed. Now pretty much only farmers and game keepers can own a gun which is fine by me as very few people hunt (as most people live in a town or city) and suprisingly having fewer guns prevents people from a) shooting people in anger because there is a gun near by b) kids getting hold of them to "play" with and killing someone c) People who are disgrunteld going into their workplace/school and shooting at people.

If you can tell me a valid reason to hold a gun apart from that of a job I will be surprised. This "protection" thing isnt that good because if lots of people have a gun then isnt it just possible that the robber has a gun and doesnt he have more to loose then you?

Yes it was the Dunblane Massacre. I used to live not too far from there when it happened:

Thomas Hamilton, aged 43, a disgraced former Scout master whose behaviour had attracted the attention of the police, turned one of his four guns on himself after killing or injuring all but one of a class of 29 five- and six-year-olds at Dunblane primary school, near Stirling.

6 year olds.... 🙁

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: EmoHawk

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Wasn't trying to bait you, just trying to show you that theres another way of thinking about the issue.

Do you have a gun? If your not able to own one, when you are able, are you going to get one? Would you own one illegaly? Where do you live? What are the gun laws like where you live?

Fair enough,
The reason 911 is a joke (relatively speaking of course) it because its NOT the police departments job to protect you.
I'll state that agin. It is NOT the police departments job to protect you. It is the police departments job to enforce laws and catch criminals. A perfect example is yours. Lets say someone is in your house with the intent to do you harm. You call the police. Assume an average response time of 3 minutes......
At that point, the police are not coming to haul someone to jail, their coming to haul someone to the morgue. Thats assuming of course your first indication someone is indeed in your house is not feeling the knife at your throat.....

Yes, I own a gun. Quite a few in fact. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. The whole gammut of guns. Gun laws where I live are a bit more restrictive then some of the other states (We cant legally own suppressors or full auto weapons) but much more relaxed then in some other States.

 

[imported_Schmitty]

I dont know what to think of that, maybe they are uping the security of things. Maybe they dont want anything stupid to happen!! MAY BE THEY GOT A TIP AND ARE BEING CAUTIOUS!

 

[Stumps]

pffft nothin new, in Australia we have never been allowed to have firearms for personal use or protection, its not even in our constitution that we have the right to bare arms, it's not so bad, we don't have 17yr olds walking in to schools and shooting 12 or 13 students dead like the US so it isn't all bad!

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: EmoHawk
At the end of the day there is no need for guns, the only thing that should be in your hand when a robber is in your house should be a phone with 911 on the other end.

lol!!
Your flame bait wont get me! 😛

Wasn't trying to bait you, just trying to show you that theres another way of thinking about the issue.

Do you have a gun? If your not able to own one, when you are able, are you going to get one? Would you own one illegaly? Where do you live? What are the gun laws like where you live?

Fair enough,
The reason 911 is a joke (relatively speaking of course) it because its NOT the police departments job to protect you.
I'll state that agin. It is NOT the police departments job to protect you. It is the police departments job to enforce laws and catch criminals. A perfect example is yours. Lets say someone is in your house with the intent to do you harm. You call the police. Assume an average response time of 3 minutes......
At that point, the police are not coming to haul someone to jail, their coming to haul someone to the morgue. Thats assuming of course your first indication someone is indeed in your house is not feeling the knife at your throat.....

Yes, I own a gun. Quite a few in fact. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. The whole gammut of guns. Gun laws where I live are a bit more restrictive then some of the other states (We cant legally own suppressors or full auto weapons) but much more relaxed then in some other States.

The question is, protect us from what? I'm not sayign that there aren't any dangers out there (I.E. Detroit 😀 ) but there are many places were guns simply aren;t necessary.

 

[Fritzo]

phhttt.....there's that many weapons on the average city block in New York 😀

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Lynx516
If you can tell me a valid reason to hold a gun apart from that of a job I will be surprised. This "protection" thing isnt that good because if lots of people have a gun then isnt it just possible that the robber has a gun and doesnt he have more to loose then you?

It goes beyond need. Lets be honest, if I NEEDED an AR15 or S&W 1911 its a pretty sh1tty time to start shopping for one no? 😉

But, protection IS an issue. Criminals are just that, outside the law. They dont CARE about gun registrations, gun wait period, gun laws. The only deterrent to a hardened criminal is knowing if he walks into that house he *might* end up dead. The gun laws only apply to law abiding citizens, so why punish them? As for decreasing crime, if I really want to kill you does it matter if I use a gun or knife? Either way your dead and I'm (possibly) on trial for murder 1.
The problem is that anti gunners want to target the gun as the cause of the crime, missing the more obvious point. The cause of the crime is the criminal, regardless of if hes using a gun, knife, crowbar and stun gun!

Additionally, it also goes into infringing on rights. Gun ownership is very dear to my heart. I've hunted in many States for many types of game. I fish, I shoot for sport and to hunt. I've shot competitvely for 4 years, havent in a while due to time contraints (kids).
But the point is, how would you fele if the government said you cant own a computer due to the possibility of it being used for a crime. Say, child porn or hacking or some other criminal offense. Suddenly YOU PERSONALLy are being punished for NOTHING you've done other then own a computer and enjoy that hobby.
Thats what anti gunners are doing. They preach less crime when crime stats (At least in America) PROVE that gun bans do NOT reduce crime, and in fact States which has issued concealed carry permits have enjoyed reduced crime! Why? Because law abiding citizens dont WANT to go to jail. They wont just randomly pull their gun and start blasting. We just want to enjoy our hobby/sport and be left in peace, but everyday we have to fight for one of our most basic rights. A right which was so important to our founding fathers that it was the 2nd amendemnt!! Thats how important our founding fathers felt gun ownership was, and some of the American public wishes to strip that most basic of rights away from us.

 

[imported_Schmitty]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Fair enough,
The reason 911 is a joke (relatively speaking of course) it because its NOT the police departments job to protect you.
I'll state that agin. It is NOT the police departments job to protect you. It is the police departments job to enforce laws and catch criminals. A perfect example is yours. Lets say someone is in your house with the intent to do you harm. You call the police. Assume an average response time of 3 minutes......
At that point, the police are not coming to haul someone to jail, their coming to haul someone to the morgue. Thats assuming of course your first indication someone is indeed in your house is not feeling the knife at your throat.....

Yes, I own a gun. Quite a few in fact. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. The whole gammut of guns. Gun laws where I live are a bit more restrictive then some of the other states (We cant legally own suppressors or full auto weapons) but much more relaxed then in some other States.

THe police Motto is PROTECT AND SERVE you D-Bag

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Schmitty

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Fair enough,
The reason 911 is a joke (relatively speaking of course) it because its NOT the police departments job to protect you.
I'll state that agin. It is NOT the police departments job to protect you. It is the police departments job to enforce laws and catch criminals. A perfect example is yours. Lets say someone is in your house with the intent to do you harm. You call the police. Assume an average response time of 3 minutes......
At that point, the police are not coming to haul someone to jail, their coming to haul someone to the morgue. Thats assuming of course your first indication someone is indeed in your house is not feeling the knife at your throat.....

Yes, I own a gun. Quite a few in fact. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. The whole gammut of guns. Gun laws where I live are a bit more restrictive then some of the other states (We cant legally own suppressors or full auto weapons) but much more relaxed then in some other States.

THe police Motto is PROTECT AND SERVE you D-Bag

I'm aware. But ask a policeman if they feel their JOB is to protect YOu from eveyrthing bad that can happen. If thats truly is their motto, why is there crime at all? Because they simply CANT protect YOU all the time! Its that simple. I've never had a policeman follow me around all day making sure *I* was safe from any crime. I've never had a policeman escort me home to make sure nothing happened. I've never had a policeman sit in my driveway at night while I sleep simply to protect me.
Its never happened to me, its never happened to you and it never will. The responsibility of YOUR protection and well being lies with YOU.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
The question is, protect us from what? I'm not sayign that there aren't any dangers out there (I.E. Detroit 😀 ) but there are many places were guns simply aren;t necessary.

That statement is funny coming from someone who live sin Detriot!!

On that basis though this should hit a personal note if your old enough to remember.
Race riots mean anything to you?
Not to drag this into a race thread, thats not my intention. But the history of the area cannot be denied, the race riots WERE an issue and if I remember correctly a person did in fact use an AR15 to protect his family and property and was not found guilty.