Further insanity of war on drugs: student expelled for bringing non-MJ to school

[SlowSpyder]

When I was a kid in elementary school a lot of the kids would joke about bags of pencil sharpener shavings being bags of weed. One day I brought in the shavings from the pencil sharpener at home, had a lot. I gave it to one of the other kids and we all joked about how much 'weed' there was, I didn't really even know what it meant at the time. Would have sucked to potentially have had my future ruined over something so dumb. No tolerance rules need to go. Next thing you know kids will get in trouble for biting their pop tart into a gun shape. Oh yea...

 

[master_shake_]

what a shock prohibition isn't working.

when has it ever?

feel bad for the kid. no one who is that stupid should have power over anyone.

oops forgot to ad "'murica"

'murica

 

[smackababy]

what a shock prohibition isn't working.

when has it ever?

feel bad for the kid. no one who is that stupid should have power over anyone.

oops forgot to ad "'murica"

'murica

Yeah! We should let kids bring pot to school! Old enough for read, old enough for weed! How dare we have rules and laws to keep drugs (including alcohol and tobacco!) out of the hands of children.

 

[DCal430]

The truth is the reason crappy, school board members like these keep getting reelected is no one else is interested in getting involved and help run the district. Most of these people run totally unopposed, because no one else wants to do this work.

 

[VashHT]

Yeah! We should let kids bring pot to school! Old enough for read, old enough for weed! How dare we have rules and laws to keep drugs (including alcohol and tobacco!) out of the hands of children.

He didn't even have weed, how is punishing this kid helping keep drugs out of school at all? In the article it says there isn't any proof the kid was even joking about it being weed, but as far as I'm concerned it's a stupid idea to expel the kid whether he was joking or not.

 

[Annisman*]

Like I said, if the kid actually thought it was weed he needs to be reprimanded. I don't see that as anything shocking.

 

[Genx87]

Yeah! We should let kids bring pot to school! Old enough for read, old enough for weed! How dare we have rules and laws to keep drugs (including alcohol and tobacco!) out of the hands of children.

Yes, YES that is what he was saying! You nailed it!

Now if only the draconian laws you advocate for did such a thing. Schools are a reliable location to purchase illegal drugs. Alcohol is quite a bit more difficult to come by. Amazing how a regulated business will deny sales to a minor out of self interest while a black market drug dealer wont.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

That chart doesn't include the cost of incarceration of those jailed or imprisoned for drug-related offenses. The estimate is that over 2.3 million Americans are incarcerated at any point in time, with about half of those incarcerations for drug-related offenses. The estimated cost of keeping someone in prison for a year is over $31,000. Thus, the annual cost of drug-related incarceration is approximately $36 billion.

That brings the total cost of the war on drugs to well over $60 billion a year. And that's just the money spent. This doesn't even consider the lives destroyed or damaged NOT by the direct negative effects of using illicit drugs but by the effects of the War on Drugs itself.

Not to mention so many other huge negatives of the WOD that I WON'T mention here because it sickens me to even think about them.

Some additional costs:
1) Any taxes the inmates would have paid that now they won't since the inmate working nor paying taxes during prison.
2) Any taxes the inmates would have paid for the rest of their life that they now won't since they will have a drug conviction on their record that will prevent them from ever having a good, high paying job post jail time.
3) Any welfare that their dependent family members will now consume while they're in prison.
4) Any welfare that the convict and their dependent family members will now consume after prison because he will never have a high paying job again.
5) Emotional damage and formative delays in any young children will incur from losing a parent to jail. There is now a higher potential that the children become trouble makers or even violent.
6) Any violence this convict will now cause to us. A non-violent person who serves prison time is far more likely to emerge from prison a violent person than had he never done prison time. Now we are in more danger than before we created the thug.
7) Any further costs from 1-6 as this person will statistically end up in jail again. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, we have decided as a society that it is good and proper to spend tens to hundreds of billions of dollars to effectively turn not violent drug offenders into violent and hopeless ex (and future) convicts. Who won? Cops, prison guards, judges, and DAs. Everyone else loses.

 

[smackababy]

He didn't even have weed, how is punishing this kid helping keep drugs out of school at all? In the article it says there isn't any proof the kid was even joking about it being weed, but as far as I'm concerned it's a stupid idea to expel the kid whether he was joking or not.

He had something that was mistaken for drugs. The school shouldn't have to wait around for testing to issue punishment.

There is literally one reason to bring any leaves to school: a leaf collection. And, since that wasn't stated in the article, I'm far more likely to believe he saw something that looked like a pot leaf and brought it in to show his friends.

The question should be whether or not the school should have the authority to issue punishment before legal guilt has been determined or should students exonerated legally have recourse to be reintegrated into schools after.

 

[master_shake_]

Yeah! We should let kids bring pot to school! Old enough for read, old enough for weed! How dare we have rules and laws to keep drugs (including alcohol and tobacco!) out of the hands of children.

what are you even on about?

did i say age restrictions are wrong?

no i meant prohibition as a whole.

l2r.

 

[smackababy]

what are you even on about?

did i say age restrictions are wrong?

no i meant prohibition as a whole.

l2r.

You are using prohibition's failure (prohibition, as the total banning of alcohol, not simply prohibiting it, as it currently is) as some sort of idea that effects this case. News flash, even if pot was legal, it would be restricted similar to cigarettes and alcohol and minors would still be in trouble for having it. If this kid brought a bottle of vodka, he'd have faced the same punishment from the school, similar to if he had brought a pack of smokes.

 

[master_shake_]

You are using prohibition's failure (prohibition, as the total banning of alcohol, not simply prohibiting it, as it currently is) as some sort of idea that effects this case. News flash, even if pot was legal, it would be restricted similar to cigarettes and alcohol and minors would still be in trouble for having it. If this kid brought a bottle of vodka, he'd have faced the same punishment from the school, similar to if he had brought a pack of smokes.

again when exactly did i say age restriction were bad.

quote it i can't find it.

also i'll try to keep off your lawn.

here i'll help you.

i meant that what he did is a victimless crime and he was charged for breaking a law that doesn't help anyone.

and after being proved not guilty the school still won't take him back.

again victimless crime stupid law dumb school.

 

[jhbball]

More zero tolerance from those who supposed to be more tolerant.

PS: conservatives came up with the idea.

 

[Annisman*]

Also, what does the 'war on drugs' have to do with this story ? I can't imagine that schools would stop caring about dope in their schools, even if it was nationally legalized.

 

[Belegost]

You are using prohibition's failure (prohibition, as the total banning of alcohol, not simply prohibiting it, as it currently is) as some sort of idea that effects this case. News flash, even if pot was legal, it would be restricted similar to cigarettes and alcohol and minors would still be in trouble for having it. If this kid brought a bottle of vodka, he'd have faced the same punishment from the school, similar to if he had brought a pack of smokes.

And if he had brought a bottle of water and some kid thought it was vodka? Or brought in candy cigarettes? (if those are even available anymore)

The issue here is that the kid did NOT bring any drugs to school. Was it reasonable to suspend the student due to the suspicion he had brought drugs to school? Sure, I don't think anyone's arguing against that.

If the leaf had been mj, would the punishment requiring him to attend a different school, and undergo daily searches be reasonable? Sounds fine, I don't think anyone is arguing against that.

When the leaf was determined to be completely benign, is it right for the school to pursue punishment the same as if it had been drugs?

I don't see that at all, especially not for a 11-12 year old. At that point the appropriate reaction should have been to have a discussion with the school administration, the child, and the parents; during which time it would be made very clear to the child that pretend drugs were not ok, and any other incidents of this sort would lead to serious punishment. At which point the child would resume classes.

Children do immature things, it's sort of the meaning of "child" and "immature" and the goal is to help them learn maturity. However leveling punishments that are completely out of line with infractions does not teach maturity, it teaches resentment, and fear.

 

[master_shake_]

Also, what does the 'war on drugs' have to do with this story ? I can't imagine that schools would stop caring about dope in their schools, even if it was nationally legalized.

he was arrested after the vice principal saw it.

no war on drugs no principally cally cops?

also after finding out it wasn't marijuana no harm no foul.

seriously what kind of retard doesn't know what it looks like?

instead innocent person expelled from school.

 

[smackababy]

And if he had brought a bottle of water and some kid thought it was vodka? Or brought in candy cigarettes? (if those are even available anymore)

If the vessel he brought could reasonable be assumed to be vodka (like a vodka bottle!), but it contained only water, sure.

The issue here is that the kid did NOT bring any drugs to school. Was it reasonable to suspend the student due to the suspicion he had brought drugs to school? Sure, I don't think anyone's arguing against that.

If the leaf had been mj, would the punishment requiring him to attend a different school, and undergo daily searches be reasonable? Sounds fine, I don't think anyone is arguing against that.

When the leaf was determined to be completely benign, is it right for the school to pursue punishment the same as if it had been drugs?

I don't see that at all, especially not for a 11-12 year old. At that point the appropriate reaction should have been to have a discussion with the school administration, the child, and the parents; during which time it would be made very clear to the child that pretend drugs were not ok, and any other incidents of this sort would lead to serious punishment. At which point the child would resume classes.

Children do immature things, it's sort of the meaning of "child" and "immature" and the goal is to help them learn maturity. However leveling punishments that are completely out of line with infractions does not teach maturity, it teaches resentment, and fear.

The issue isn't that he didn't bring drug. It is that he brought something that looked, upon initial inspection by the vice principle, to be drugs and the student was dealt with according to policy. It is also very likely the expulsion was done BEFORE they discovered the leaf in question wasn't actually marijuana. Now, should he have an avenue to reinstatement? Sure. I think it is a bit ridiculous for the student to be permanently banned from attending that school, especially after being exonerated. Should he have had to attend an alternative school for some period of days, regardless of what the legal outcome be? (60?) I have no problem with that.

And, in what world does a 6th grader not understand that drugs, and pretend drugs, are inappropriate for school? That is bad parenting. Perhaps, having parents that weren't fucking idiots helped me somewhere along the way, because by 6th grade I understood having something that a reasonable person would think is drugs would be a pretty stupid move to pull in school.

 

[master_shake_]

If the vessel he brought could reasonable be assumed to be vodka (like a vodka bottle!), but it contained only water, sure.



The issue isn't that he didn't bring drug. It is that he brought something that looked, upon initial inspection by the vice principle, to be drugs and the student was dealt with according to policy. It is also very likely the expulsion was done BEFORE they discovered the leaf in question wasn't actually marijuana. Now, should he have an avenue to reinstatement? Sure. I think it is a bit ridiculous for the student to be permanently banned from attending that school, especially after being exonerated. Should he have had to attend an alternative school for some period of days, regardless of what the legal outcome be? (60?) I have no problem with that.

And, in what world does a 6th grader not understand that drugs, and pretend drugs, are inappropriate for school? That is bad parenting. Perhaps, having parents that weren't fucking idiots helped me somewhere along the way, because by 6th grade I understood having something that a reasonable person would think is drugs would be a pretty stupid move to pull in school.

the same world where biting a pop tart in to a gun shape, a paramedic having a knife in his car and a boy who had a pen lid bent and sorta resembled a gun if you squinted a bit live in.

your fucked up country called murica.

 

[VashHT]

He had something that was mistaken for drugs. The school shouldn't have to wait around for testing to issue punishment.

There is literally one reason to bring any leaves to school: a leaf collection. And, since that wasn't stated in the article, I'm far more likely to believe he saw something that looked like a pot leaf and brought it in to show his friends.

The question should be whether or not the school should have the authority to issue punishment before legal guilt has been determined or should students exonerated legally have recourse to be reintegrated into schools after.

I can agree with your last statement, if the school can't identify pot without testing then they shouldn't be handing out permanent punishments like expulsion and mandatory drug pat downs without being sure about it first. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with this story if they had issued a temporary suspension or something like that until they knew if it was really weed or not.

 

[smackababy]

I can agree with your last statement, if the school can't identify pot without testing then they shouldn't be handing out permanent punishments like expulsion and mandatory drug pat downs without being sure about it first. I wouldn't have so much of a problem with this story if they had issued a temporary suspension or something like that until they knew if it was really weed or not.

The problem is the Japanese Maple leaf looks very similar to a pot leaf. In fact, I am going to wager even "educated" people would have a hard time telling the difference, let alone someone who has only ever seen pictures of it (the vice principle was likely one of those). So, a cursory investigation done by the vice principle was enough to warrant him calling the police and having the student arrested. That alone is enough for disciplinary action by the school. The student has put themselves in a position that is disruptive to the school environment. Now, do I think expulsion is excessive? Yes. Especially, considering I had friends in high school get lesser punishment for pot and weapons at school (specifically, shotgun shells). But, the school is within their right to punish pending any legal action.

 

[Belegost]

If the vessel he brought could reasonable be assumed to be vodka (like a vodka bottle!), but it contained only water, sure.



The issue isn't that he didn't bring drug. It is that he brought something that looked, upon initial inspection by the vice principle, to be drugs and the student was dealt with according to policy. It is also very likely the expulsion was done BEFORE they discovered the leaf in question wasn't actually marijuana. Now, should he have an avenue to reinstatement? Sure. I think it is a bit ridiculous for the student to be permanently banned from attending that school, especially after being exonerated. Should he have had to attend an alternative school for some period of days, regardless of what the legal outcome be? (60?) I have no problem with that.

And, in what world does a 6th grader not understand that drugs, and pretend drugs, are inappropriate for school? That is bad parenting. Perhaps, having parents that weren't fucking idiots helped me somewhere along the way, because by 6th grade I understood having something that a reasonable person would think is drugs would be a pretty stupid move to pull in school.

My wife and I had a discussion with our kids about drugs about a year ago when they were 10 and 8 (due to the legalization here in CO.)

At that time neither of them was aware that mj was even a plant, and they believed that smoking it involved a special room where it was burnt and people went and sat in the smoke (we think they got this from seeing native american style sweat lodges on TV.) With that level of naivete why would they be expected to know that merely pretending about drugs would cause them to get thrown out of their school permanently?

While I would expect a child of say 15 to know better, I would not expect that out of an 11 year old.

 

[OutHouse]

While I would expect a child of say 15 to know better, I would not expect that out of an 11 year old.

i agree with this. he is just 11 and still a kid who doesnt know how serious some people or the laws are about this.

glad you and I live in CO its legal.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Expulsion is such a useless punishment anyway. What lesson is being taught by telling a student "you can't be in school learning anything for the rest of the year?" Like a kid's going to come back and repeat a grade and never fuck up again after that? "Learned my lesson, now I'm a straight A student!" No, that kid is doomed to a life of drugs and crime. If you want to reform someone's behavior, you don't put them in timeout for the rest of the year, you make them talk to a guidance counselor and take lessons in what exactly was wrong with their behavior and what steps can they take to ensure it doesn't happen again. It doesn't matter if the leaf was marijuana or not, since even if it was, expulsion is useless as a teaching tool.

 

[smackababy]

Expulsion is such a useless punishment anyway. What lesson is being taught by telling a student "you can't be in school learning anything for the rest of the year?" Like a kid's going to come back and repeat a grade and never fuck up again after that? "Learned my lesson, now I'm a straight A student!" No, that kid is doomed to a life of drugs and crime. If you want to reform someone's behavior, you don't put them in timeout for the rest of the year, you make them talk to a guidance counselor and take lessons in what exactly was wrong with their behavior and what steps can they take to ensure it doesn't happen again. It doesn't matter if the leaf was marijuana or not, since even if it was, expulsion is useless as a teaching tool.

Expulsion isn't about punishing the student, so much as it is about removing disruptive students from the environment. And, it isn't like they can't enroll in another school. Most districts have an alternative school especially for students that can't function in normal schools. That includes things like pat downs and such, as it is a bunch of trouble makers.

 

[irishScott]

Sad thing is some parent of one of the kids would have likely sued if nothing had been done. Because clearly educating their kids about drugs isn't their responsibility, it's so not their responsibility that they deserve money for not doing it!

We need the Department of Education and/or congress to just give schools legal immunity for everyday normal shit, and a lot of this idiocy will go away.