Further insanity of war on drugs: student expelled for bringing non-MJ to school

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
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Cliffs notes of story:

  • Kid shows leaf from backpack to fellow students. The leaf is not MJ.
  • Either the kid jokes that it's MJ OR some other student thought it was MJ.
  • Assistant principal discovers the leaf in student's backpack.
  • Student is immediately expelled from school charged with MJ possession in juvi court.
  • The "MJ" is tested three times, and discovered to NOT be MJ. Juvi court drug charges are dropped.
  • Nevertheless, the student remains expelled, is forced to undergo psychiatric evaluation for drug use, and now - one year later - although allowed to return to school, is forced to go to a DIFFERENT school and undergo twice-daily checks for drugs while on probation for the next six months. Again, everyone knows early on that the kid did not bring MJ to school.
  • This is standard policy in MANY school districts across the nation.
Thank God so many dedicated people are protecting us from the evil weed.

Earlier this school year, a sixth-grader in the gifted-and-talented program at Bedford Middle School in Bedford, Virginia was suspended for one year after an assistant principal found something that looked like a marijuana leaf in his backpack.

The student, the 11-year-old son of two school teachers, had to enroll in the district's alternative education program and be homes-schooled. He was evaluated by a psychiatrist for substance abuse problems, and charged with marijuana possession in juvenile court. In the months since September, he's become withdrawn, depressed, and he suffers from panic attacks. He is worried his life is over, according to his mother, and that he will never get into college.

The only problem? The "leaf" found in the student's backpack wasn't what authorities thought it was -- it tested negative for marijuana three separate times.

All of this is laid out in detail by Dan Casey in a column in the Roanoke Times today. While the juvenile court dropped its case against the student after the tests turned up negative, the school system, in a community located midway between Roanoke and Lynchburg, has been far less forgiving. That's because stringent anti-drug policies in school districts in Virginia and elsewhere consider "imitation" drugs to be identical to real ones for disciplinary purposes.

The school's lawyer, Jim Guynn, is quoted in the Roanoke Times article defending the policy on the basis that "it's a pretty standard policy across the Commonwealth." In 2011, for instance, four seventh-graders in Chesapeake, Virginia were suspended over bringing a bag of oregano to school. A quick Google search suggests similar policies are in effect in many other states as well.

It doesn't matter if your son or daughter brings a real pot leaf to school, or if he brings something that looks like a pot leaf -- okra, tomato, maple, buckeye, etc. If your kid calls it marijuana as a joke, or if another kid thinks it might be marijuana, that's grounds for expulsion.

The Bedford sixth-grader has been allowed to return to school starting today. But he has to attend a different school, separate from his former friends and peers, and he's still under strict probation until this September. The terms of his original suspension letter state that he'll be searched for drugs at the beginning and end of every school day until his probation is over.

It's unclear what exactly transpired before the assistant principal discovered the leaf in the Bedford student's backpack. School authorities say the student was showing it to other kids and telling them it was pot. The student's parents say he never would have done such a thing, and that it was planted there as a joke by another kid.

Either scenario raises troubling questions given the severity of the punishment. Kids, especially at that age, joke about things all the time. When I was in sixth grade my friends and I would dump out Pixy Sticks on our desks and arrange the powdered sugar in neat little lines, like cocaine, although I don't think any of us was dumb enough to try to snort it. We only knew what cocaine was because of D.A.R.E., the ineffective school anti-drug campaign of the 80s and 90s.

Under rules in place today in Virginia and elsewhere, we would have been considered possessing "imitation cocaine" and subject to expulsion.

The Bedford case is a microcosm of drug policy -- especially marijuana policy -- at the national level. Most of the harm associated with marijuana use comes not from using marijuana, but from getting caught up in the strict punishments meted out by the criminal justice system for using it.

The harm that the Bedford school district inflicted on this boy is far greater than any harm he could have incurred by eating an actual marijuana leaf, or even smoking it, or even smoking a dozen leaves.

Fortunately, kids are resilient. With any luck the student will start to bounce back once his year of probation and mandatory pat-downs is over. But as the parent of two boys, the prospect of this sort of ordeal terrifies me.
 
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Annisman*

Golden Member
Aug 20, 2010
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If the kid actually thought it was pot, I say yeah expel him no matter what. I don't care what side of the legalization fence you are on, a school with 6th graders in it is absolutely no place for dope or anybody who thinks it's cool to bring it there. The kid's life isn't over its not like they threw him in jail and now I imagine he will be much wiser.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
If the kid actually thought it was pot, I say yeah expel him no matter what. I don't care what side of the legalization fence you are on, a school with 6th graders in it is absolutely no place for dope or anybody who thinks it's cool to bring it there. The kid's life isn't over its not like they threw him in jail and now I imagine he will be much wiser.
Yup, he's learned that adults are often just as stupid as 6th graders. The stakes simply get higher as you get older.


It's said a lot, but it never seems to sink in: Zero tolerance, zero thought.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
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I remember a friend that would always bring a salt shaker to lunch in 5th grade, and we'd joke about it being cocaine or poison. I was expelled in 6th grade anyways for zero tolerance policies of a different kind, but it's unfortunate that my friends weren't as well before they could become childhood-ruining drug peddlers.
 

frowertr

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,371
41
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Well if the kid was promoting the leaf as MJ than I don't see a problem with some type of discipline from the school district. Serves the dumbass right for doing something so stupid.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Well if the kid was promoting the leaf as MJ than I don't see a problem with some type of discipline from the school district. Serves the dumbass right for doing something so stupid.

Maybe you hadn't noticed, but 11-year-olds often do stupid things. And since this is a school system policy, it definitely applies to kindergarteners, too.

There's only one group doing something really, really stupid here, and it isn't the students.
 
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unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
drug-war-money.png


Cliffs notes of story:
... Thank God so many dedicated people are protecting us from the evil weed.

Actually, its a simpler story.

Billions of dollars supporting the drug war.

Drug warriors -- They have the money...

You don't expect them to give it up, do you?

Uno
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
drug-war-money.png




Actually, its a simpler story.

Billions of dollars supporting the drug war.

Drug warriors -- They have the money...

You don't expect them to give it up, do you?

Uno

That chart doesn't include the cost of incarceration of those jailed or imprisoned for drug-related offenses. The estimate is that over 2.3 million Americans are incarcerated at any point in time, with about half of those incarcerations for drug-related offenses. The estimated cost of keeping someone in prison for a year is over $31,000. Thus, the annual cost of drug-related incarceration is approximately $36 billion.

That brings the total cost of the war on drugs to well over $60 billion a year. And that's just the money spent. This doesn't even consider the lives destroyed or damaged NOT by the direct negative effects of using illicit drugs but by the effects of the War on Drugs itself.

Not to mention so many other huge negatives of the WOD that I WON'T mention here because it sickens me to even think about them.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
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Kids do dumb stuff. It is a part of growing up. It amazes me when adults ruin a kids future because they did something dumb, especially a non-violent behavior.
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,371
1
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Shira...from the article itself, and some of the comments supporting punishment for the 11-year old - I'd say the US "education" system fucking lost it.

It doesn't matter if your son or daughter brings a real pot leaf to school, or if he brings something that looks like a pot leaf -- okra, tomato, maple, buckeye, etc. If your kid calls it marijuana as a joke, or if another kid thinks it might be marijuana, that's grounds for expulsion.

If anyone thinks this is logical, well, I feel sorry for you. Zero thought I guess.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Shira...from the article itself, and some of the comments supporting punishment for the 11-year old - I'd say the US "education" system fucking lost it.



If anyone thinks this is logical, well, I feel sorry for you. Zero thought I guess.
Ignorance is the root of all evil, and the human capacity for ignorance is - unfortunately - seemingly unlimited.
 

notposting

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2005
3,482
12
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"if another kid thinks it might be marijuana"

wtf

Little Jimmy is too dumb to know what a maple leaf is. Big Jimmy the Ass Principal doesn't know either. Guess your kid is expelled and suspended and patted down endlessly. Yay!
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
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If the kid actually thought it was pot, I say yeah expel him no matter what. I don't care what side of the legalization fence you are on, a school with 6th graders in it is absolutely no place for dope or anybody who thinks it's cool to bring it there. The kid's life isn't over its not like they threw him in jail and now I imagine he will be much wiser.
Serious or trolling?
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
lol

when I was in 6th grade I put Skittles in a old Px jar and brought them to school and gave them out as drugs. we all thought it was funny

all I got was a stern talking to. no suspension, no expulsion.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
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I can't read the article for some reason, but here is a valid question: at what point did the tests confirm it was not pot. Because, I can tell you it wasn't right at expulsion time. Schools don't have to, and shouldn't, wait for the outcome of criminal charges to discipline students. Being charged with a crime (bringing pot to school) is enough to remove the student from the general population of students.

If we want to argue that the principal (or whoever made the decision) doesn't know the difference between some random Japanese tree leaf and a pot leaf that look very similar, you're just being dense.

Also, it is highly likely the alternative school he was assigned to go to has rules in place to protect students from people bringing in things like knives and such, which happens. This kid being a "drug offender" and non violent isn't going to change the rules for everyone. Crying that he is being patted down is similar to crying that we incarcerate non violent offenders in similar, if not identical, prisons with violent ones.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
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I can't read the article for some reason, but here is a valid question: at what point did the tests confirm it was not pot. Because, I can tell you it wasn't right at expulsion time. Schools don't have to, and shouldn't, wait for the outcome of criminal charges to discipline students. Being charged with a crime (bringing pot to school) is enough to remove the student from the general population of students.

If we want to argue that the principal (or whoever made the decision) doesn't know the difference between some random Japanese tree leaf and a pot leaf that look very similar, you're just being dense.

Also, it is highly likely the alternative school he was assigned to go to has rules in place to protect students from people bringing in things like knives and such, which happens. This kid being a "drug offender" and non violent isn't going to change the rules for everyone. Crying that he is being patted down is similar to crying that we incarcerate non violent offenders in similar, if not identical, prisons with violent ones.

No one is arguing that the kid doesn't deserve some sort of discipline. But joking about a tree leaf looking like pot shouldn't be grounds for possibly ruining the kid's future. Anecdotal, but I have many examples from my youth that would be just as bad, if not worse. One of my friends in middle school used to print off nudie pics from the internet and sell them for lunch money at school. He was caught and suspended for a few days. Kid grew up to be a lawyer. Another kid came to school drunk one time after lunch. Suspended for a few days and then went to college. On a Washington DC trip in middle school one kid kept saying he was trying to find the black market and asked nearly every police officer he saw where the black market was. Everyone just laughed.

We, however, do not know the entire history of this child. If he was known for this type of behavior over and over then an alternative school may be best. It is worrying how zero tolerance policies are being enforced though. A small offense could completely change the course of a child's life, something that would be trivial only 20 years ago.

Last example was an Eagle scout that had a hatchet in his trunk from a weekend camping trip. Honor student. Was expelled because of zero tolerance on "weapons." It is ridiculous. Zero tolerance is the worse possible thing for kids. It should absolutely always be case-by-case.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
No one is arguing that the kid doesn't deserve some sort of discipline. But joking about a tree leaf looking like pot shouldn't be grounds for possibly ruining the kid's future. Anecdotal, but I have many examples from my youth that would be just as bad, if not worse. One of my friends in middle school used to print off nudie pics from the internet and sell them for lunch money at school. He was caught and suspended for a few days. Kid grew up to be a lawyer. Another kid came to school drunk one time after lunch. Suspended for a few days and then went to college. On a Washington DC trip in middle school one kid kept saying he was trying to find the black market and asked nearly every police officer he saw where the black market was. Everyone just laughed.

We, however, do not know the entire history of this child. If he was known for this type of behavior over and over then an alternative school may be best. It is worrying how zero tolerance policies are being enforced though. A small offense could completely change the course of a child's life, something that would be trivial only 20 years ago.

Last example was an Eagle scout that had a hatchet in his trunk from a weekend camping trip. Honor student. Was expelled because of zero tolerance on "weapons." It is ridiculous. Zero tolerance is the worse possible thing for kids. It should absolutely always be case-by-case.

:thumbsup: all of this
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,346
17,548
146
This is a sad story. If I was a student today and behaved like I did back school (wasn't bad...), then I would've been expelled too. We used to pretend pixie sticks were cocaine and try to snort them, even talked other kids into doing it.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
No one is arguing that the kid doesn't deserve some sort of discipline. But joking about a tree leaf looking like pot shouldn't be grounds for possibly ruining the kid's future. Anecdotal, but I have many examples from my youth that would be just as bad, if not worse. One of my friends in middle school used to print off nudie pics from the internet and sell them for lunch money at school. He was caught and suspended for a few days. Kid grew up to be a lawyer. Another kid came to school drunk one time after lunch. Suspended for a few days and then went to college. On a Washington DC trip in middle school one kid kept saying he was trying to find the black market and asked nearly every police officer he saw where the black market was. Everyone just laughed.

We, however, do not know the entire history of this child. If he was known for this type of behavior over and over then an alternative school may be best. It is worrying how zero tolerance policies are being enforced though. A small offense could completely change the course of a child's life, something that would be trivial only 20 years ago.

Last example was an Eagle scout that had a hatchet in his trunk from a weekend camping trip. Honor student. Was expelled because of zero tolerance on "weapons." It is ridiculous. Zero tolerance is the worse possible thing for kids. It should absolutely always be case-by-case.

The problem is the leaf looks like a pot leaf. How many people actually know the difference from the leaf pictured in the article and a pot leaf? Especially, without a side by side comparison?

And, if you really think something that happened to a 12 year old that didn't result in any legal recourse is going to ruin this kid's chances at college, you're an idiot.

I get that sometimes schools can go overboard. When I was a senior a girl at my school had a dog pop on her vehicle. Since she was 18 and was the owner of the car, she refused to consent to a search and they had to get a warrant (normally, they just call the parents, but couldn't in this case). The police found what appeared to be two pot seeds and she was put into alternative school for 60 days. The seeds ended up never being able to test positive for pot (she didn't smoke pot, btw) and she passed every drug test. Her family fought as much as they possibly could, but she had already served her time before anything happened. And, the only thing that did happen was that the school had a right to punish without testing.

The issue here, wasn't that this was a clear case of the school being idiots. A student was reported for having a pot leaf AND had a leaf that could easily be mistaken for a pot leaf. And, I am going to guess he was fucking joking about it, because he is a kid and a moron.


And, zero tolerance for weapons makes me laugh. When I was in grade school I bought a knife and was showing it off and got caught. The only thing that happened to me was the principle confiscated it and made my parents come to the school to retrieve it. I went back to class right after handing it over. But, that was before Columbine. =)