Fundamentalist Christianity - A Personal Anecdote

[bshole]

As many of you know, I grew up the son of Christian missionaries overseas. I got a whole heaping dosage of its dogma throughout my childhood.

One of the kids I knew overseas as a kid grew up to become a missionary overseas. He "worked" with indigenous tribes in the Amazon forest. It turns out this childhood acquaintance of mine had a taste for pre-teen girls. He spent his time in the jungle having sex with the girls and taping the encounters. To make a long story short, when he returned to the states he got busted and was sentenced to basically a life term in prison.

My mom was telling me this story this week. When she finished she added a little tidbit which really pissed me off, I was not surprised by what she said, just disappointed. She said that the pedophile had "got his life right with the lord". What utter bullshit. What about the victims of his depredations? He gets to say he is sorry and that makes everything all right? Why would you believe him? Sexual preferences are for life. I am sure he still masturbates while fantasizing about all the little girls he had sex with. This illustrates a rather large problem with the faith. A willingness to be empathetic to a Christian predator while being completely oblivious to the victims of said predator.

 

[DrPizza]

I drove by it a couple times this weekend, and kept forgetting to slow down to take a picture. Near where we were camping this weekend, I saw a retreat for young boys. Permanently on their sign out front, apparently their mission statement: "Disciplining young boys to love Jesus."

(By Chautauqua Lake, in NY, NY430, within a mile north of Midway State Park on the Eastern shore.)

 

[Moonbeam]

OK, here's what I see. You have a friend reddled with guile that hides his sexual sins behind a cloak of religion and your mom forgives him while you hide your crime of hatred of God behind the hypocrisy of Christians, thus justifying your mortal sin. No wonder you're pissed at your Mom. It would be outrageous to say you were any better at denying guilt.

You were guilt tripped by religion and live in the delusion that by rejecting it you are ipso facto freed from that guilt. It doesn't work like that. You can't free yourself from guilt you are unaware that you deny but actually feel. God is forgiveness and God is real. The God you rejected is a joke and rejecting a joke is just another kind of joke. We are all forgiven. We just don't know it where it feels real.

 

[bshole]

OK, here's what I see. You have a friend reddled with guile that hides his sexual sins behind a cloak of religion and your mom forgives him while you hide your crime of hatred of God behind the hypocrisy of Christians, thus justifying your mortal sin. No wonder you're pissed at your Mom. It would be outrageous to say you were any better at denying guilt.

You were guilt tripped by religion and live in the delusion that by rejecting it you are ipso facto freed from that guilt. It doesn't work like that. You can't free yourself from guilt you are unaware that you deny but actually feel. God is forgiveness and God is real. The God you rejected is a joke and rejecting a joke is just another kind of joke. We are all forgiven. We just don't know it where it feels real.

Thank you for the psycho-analysis. How much do I owe you?

 

[stormkroe]

I drove by it a couple times this weekend, and kept forgetting to slow down to take a picture. Near where we were camping this weekend, I saw a retreat for young boys. Permanently on their sign out front, apparently their mission statement: "Disciplining young boys to love Jesus."

(By Chautauqua Lake, in NY, NY430, within a mile north of Midway State Park on the Eastern shore.)

If only signs had spell check, but then there wouldn't be as many funny ones I s' pose.

 

[Moonbeam]

Almost nothing. Proper activation will requires you ego.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Thank you for the psycho-analysis. How much do I owe you?

Well if he's been watching some of the other preachers he might want a jet.
[youtube]

 

[cubby1223]

It's nothing unique to Christianity. If someone deeply identifies with some characteristic, that person will go easy on others who share the same characteristic. Christianity is just one example. Same goes for the political spectrum, conservatives, liberals, "progressives", etc. Skin color, how many who stood behind Mike Brown as a promising young kid would still have if Brown were of a different skin color?

He gets to say he is sorry and that makes everything all right?

Who said everything was all right? Your mother said he "got his life right with the lord". What do you want other than to bash religion? Did your mother say he is being paroled? Did your mother say she would invite him over for dinner? Send him a Christmas Card? What?

People who commit crimes are capable of turning their lives around and helping others. Doesn't happen all the time. But it can. What evidence can you provide that this guy continues to be a pervert hurting other people? Other than your distrust of religion.

 

[Jaskalas]

The whole forgiveness thing?
It's consistent with the pacifism Jesus was hailed for. True follows of the faith would pray instead of act in vengeance or violence.

Also, Medieval necessity.
Tithe for salvation means the person is paying into the Church, and swearing loyalty. Keeping "membership" high was important in growing economies, and warm bodies for military draft. Altogether it's a really nice deal in exchange for "second chances".

I can appreciate if you don't understand it, as you may not have met anyone faithful enough to actually abide by it. How few they must be. Moreover, the world is a cruel and violent place. We often have to punish and incarcerate people. Which means forgiveness waits for their sentence to be fulfilled. Then there's the science of how some folks simply cannot be trusted not to act on impulses or mental illness. Perhaps "forgiveness" does not mean we abandon our judicial system... but rather, it means we do not act unjustly or cruelly to those convicted.

And, where did you get this notion that forgiveness means mutually exclusive empathy between predator and victim? Why not for both? Are we missing something your mother said, to free the man or disparage the victims?

 

[woolfe9998]

And, where did you get this notion that forgiveness means mutually exclusive empathy between predator and victim? Why not for both? Are we missing something your mother said, to free the man or disparage the victims?

He didn't say she expressed empathy for his victims, but even if she did, that isn't the point. The point she has no business "forgiving" this man for what he did. His victims could forgive him. Her forgiving him is a slap in the face to the victims. If you had a daughter who was raped by this man, somehow I doubt you'd take kindly to others forgiving him just because he prayed a lot afterwards. If she has a religious world view, perhaps she should leave the forgiveness to her deity and stay out of the forgiveness game because she isn't very good at it.

Beyond that, some of us take issue with the religious notion that you are somehow redeemed by faith and belief. If there is redemption in this life, it is by deed, not belief. Did something bad? Make up for it by refraining from doing bad, and also by doing good. I could care less what people say they believe in. Actions are what counts.

 

[Grooveriding]

This is one of the baits religion uses to reel people in. You can absolve yourself of being a heinous piece of shit by coming into the fold. It's why you see such prevalence in prisons of criminals 'finding Jesus'. It's a cheap trick to lessen your personal responsibility. Just walk into a box and tell the man in the uniform how bad and sorry you are, rinse and repeat.

 

[1prophet]

Must of glossed over this passage in his religious studies.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[elitejp]

As many of you know, I grew up the son of Christian missionaries overseas. I got a whole heaping dosage of its dogma throughout my childhood.

One of the kids I knew overseas as a kid grew up to become a missionary overseas. He "worked" with indigenous tribes in the Amazon forest. It turns out this childhood acquaintance of mine had a taste for pre-teen girls. He spent his time in the jungle having sex with the girls and taping the encounters. To make a long story short, when he returned to the states he got busted and was sentenced to basically a life term in prison.

My mom was telling me this story this week. When she finished she added a little tidbit which really pissed me off, I was not surprised by what she said, just disappointed. She said that the pedophile had "got his life right with the lord". What utter bullshit. What about the victims of his depredations? He gets to say he is sorry and that makes everything all right? Why would you believe him? Sexual preferences are for life. I am sure he still masturbates while fantasizing about all the little girls he had sex with. This illustrates a rather large problem with the faith. A willingness to be empathetic to a Christian predator while being completely oblivious to the victims of said predator.

Ok lets just take christianity out of the equation. So this guy has sex with pre teen girls and tapes it all. He gets arrested and sentenced to life in prison. He now says he regrets what he did. Is this an accurate summary?

Now here is my question. What else do you expect him to do?

Your mom didnt condone what he did. Ask her! If you take the religious aspect out of it then the only thing your mom did was be thankful that he isnt like that anymore.

 

[Jaskalas]

The point she has no business "forgiving" this man for what he did.

So you think it is your place to tell others what to believe.

What do you think forgiveness is? It's repentance, it's amends, it's second chances. To seek rehabilitation, not vengeance. Does that not appeal to you?

Mind you, the guy is never getting out of prison. The mother's forgiveness does not change this. Nor should it. The interesting part would be IF she believed he should ever be released, but we do not know her thoughts on that. All we know is she likely does not want to be cruel or unjust towards him. She is merely happy that the man appears to want redemption. Is that so wrong?

I could care less what people say they believe in. Actions are what counts.

Then perhaps we could "forgive" those who seek redemption by setting them on a path for such action.
And no, I do not mean releasing this predator, but some sort of inmate program to "do some good", whatever that might be. Perhaps that action could be volentary labor.

 

[bshole]

So you think it is your place to tell others what to believe.

What do you think forgiveness is? It's repentance, it's amends, it's second chances. To seek rehabilitation, not vengeance. Does that not appeal to you?

Mind you, the guy is never getting out of prison. The mother's forgiveness does not change this. Nor should it. The interesting part would be IF she believed he should ever be released, but we do not know her thoughts on that. All we know is she likely does not want to be cruel or unjust towards him. She is merely happy that the man appears to want redemption. Is that so wrong?



Then perhaps we could "forgive" those who seek redemption by setting them on a path for such action.
And no, I do not mean releasing this predator, but some sort of inmate program to "do some good", whatever that might be. Perhaps that action could be volentary labor.

What I sensed from my mother was a decided lack of empathy for the victims. She said WITH A STRAIGHT FACE, that sex at that age was common amongst the tribes. In their culture, it is not treated as a perversion or wrong. She of course was right but I thought the entire purposed of missionary work was to convince them that their worldview was wrong and that they all were going to burn in hell for their sin.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

So you posted a cute little anecdote with absolutely no substantiating information. Since this guy is obviously unsavory and in prison for these crimes then there's no reason why you shouldn't post his name and maybe a link to an article discussing his conviction so we can take a better look at him, right?

 

[bshole]

So you posted a cute little anecdote with absolutely no substantiating information. Since this guy is obviously unsavory and in prison for these crimes then there's no reason why you shouldn't post his name and maybe a link to an article discussing his conviction so we can take a better look at him, right?

Fair enough:

A former missionary was sentenced to 58 years in prison on child pornography charges Tuesday.

Warren Scott Kennell was arrested in June after Homeland Security investigators found he uploaded child pornography online.


Kennell then admitted to producing child pornography with young girls from the Brazilian tribes he worked with.


About 17 people filed up several rows in the courtroom to support Kennel Tuesday.


WFTV found out his family has been doing missionary work his entire life.

Investigators said Kennell was a missionary for New Tribes Mission, based in Sanford.
In court, it was brought up that Kennell was born in the Brazilian jungle. His attorney and family suggested that the way he was raised and the culture he was in may have contributed to his actions.

WFTV was there as he was sentenced to 58 years in federal prison for molesting at least four girls, one as young as 12.

Reporter Karla Ray asked Kennell's father if he had anything to say.
But he declined comment.
Kennell's father asked the chief judge in court to have leniency on his son, but Kennell was sentenced to just two years less than the maximum allowed.

Ray: "I've never seen so much family show up for a court hearing. Why did you all feel it was so important to come here today?"

Father: "He's our family. We love him. We're going to support him."

Ray: "And, you'll support him throughout his 58 years?"

Father: "Absolutely."

Kennell cried as he spoke on his behalf to the judge, apologizing to his victims.

His family insists the now convicted child predator is a changed man and is remorseful.

Ray: "You forgive him for what he did?"

Father: "Of course we do. God forgives him and we forgive him."

Those victims were not able to speak out in court Tuesday because they are all in Brazil.

As part of a plea deal, Kennell waived his right to an appeal.

His New Tribes Mission biography described Kennell as a language teacher who grew up in Brazil, and is the son of missionaries. He went back to Brazil in 1994 as a missionary, according to his biography.

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/former-missionary-gets-58-years-prison-child-porno/106924540

 

[interchange]

As many of you know, I grew up the son of Christian missionaries overseas. I got a whole heaping dosage of its dogma throughout my childhood.

One of the kids I knew overseas as a kid grew up to become a missionary overseas. He "worked" with indigenous tribes in the Amazon forest. It turns out this childhood acquaintance of mine had a taste for pre-teen girls. He spent his time in the jungle having sex with the girls and taping the encounters. To make a long story short, when he returned to the states he got busted and was sentenced to basically a life term in prison.

My mom was telling me this story this week. When she finished she added a little tidbit which really pissed me off, I was not surprised by what she said, just disappointed. She said that the pedophile had "got his life right with the lord". What utter bullshit. What about the victims of his depredations? He gets to say he is sorry and that makes everything all right? Why would you believe him? Sexual preferences are for life. I am sure he still masturbates while fantasizing about all the little girls he had sex with. This illustrates a rather large problem with the faith. A willingness to be empathetic to a Christian predator while being completely oblivious to the victims of said predator.

Firstly, I want to thank you for creating a post of your own accord and experience.

Secondly, I hope that moonbeam's analysis hasn't made you hesitant to open your mind further to your experience.

Thirdly, I've bolded a part that I disagree with. I can't know because I wasn't there and I'm not your mom. That said, I don't feel her reaction was likely empathetic at all. I actually feel it was the opposite. It was a fantasy that some external benevolent agent can absolve responsibility. And, in that case, she identified with the fantasy that the Lord would absolve her of her own wrongdoings. I feel it was an attempt to avoid identifying with the actual conflict of the pedophile, that one's natural existence might be damaging to others and demand a degree of self-control that is difficult or impossible to possess. Therefore, if God can forgive a pedophile, God can forgive me.

I do not feel the problem with fundamental Christianity is empathizing with the evil. I feel the problem is being so afraid with one's evil, that you must justify absolution of a greater evil in order to avoid facing it.

I wish we weren't so consumed by the projected consequences of our actions that we cannot face the reality of why we chose them in the first place.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

@bshole: Thank you for the information!

I hope the rotten bastard experiences the kind of jailhouse justice that's reserved for kiddy-diddlers. He clearly deserves it!

 

[interchange]

So you posted a cute little anecdote with absolutely no substantiating information. Since this guy is obviously unsavory and in prison for these crimes then there's no reason why you shouldn't post his name and maybe a link to an article discussing his conviction so we can take a better look at him, right?

Are you so afraid to look at yourself that you can't even trust bshole's story? The more disturbing thing about this to me is the idea that an article will somehow present an unbiased reflection of reality.

 

[interchange]

@bshole: Thank you for the information!

I hope the rotten bastard experiences the kind of jailhouse justice that's reserved for kiddy-diddlers. He clearly deserves it!

You should watch Dexter. Maybe you'll find enough information about how to get away with murder that you can actually dispense the justice the world so desperately needs without inhibition from personal consequences.

 

[1prophet]

So did anyone else in the religious community know or turn a blind eye?,

because it looks like if this guy kept his child porn to himself and not upload it to other pedophiles he probably would still be doing his thing.

Warren Scott Kennell also filmed his sick sex acts which he secretly carried out as he tried to set up a church with the remote Katukina tribe in Brazil.

The 45-year-old, who worked for the Sanford-based New Tribes Mission, at first befriended the youngsters.

Then, after gaining their trust, he abused them over a number of years.

Homeland Security Investigations started looking into Kennell after getting tipped off that he'd posted pictures on a website that let people trade in child porn.

 

[interchange]

So did anyone else in the religious community know or turn a blind eye?,

because it looks like if this guy kept his child porn to himself and not upload it to other pedophiles he probably would still be doing his thing.

Most paraphilias are never recognized. Approximately 30% of people in the US are sexually victimized at least once before adulthood. Easy to empathize with the victims, although I don't think many people are actively considering that ~1/3 people they meet have been such victims.

Never heard someone spontaneously consider just how many sick people are committing these crimes.

You are faced with an awful choice @1prophet. Face the reality that people get away with awful things all the damn time and you can't stop it, or try to keep the problem out of conscious awareness.

I don't expect most people to choose the first option. I do fear that we don't have enough of them to make a difference.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I once encountered a prisoner who was in jail for having sex with a 12 year old girl. While interacting with him he was convinced that he'd done nothing wrong and that the girl wanted it as much as he did. When the conversation was over the only thing that I could do is shake my head and go on. Is this any different than the UN peacekeepers in Darfur who forced the women they were supposed to be helping to have sex with them in exchange for the food they were there to supply in the first place?

 

[werepossum]

OK, here's what I see. You have a friend reddled with guile that hides his sexual sins behind a cloak of religion and your mom forgives him while you hide your crime of hatred of God behind the hypocrisy of Christians, thus justifying your mortal sin. No wonder you're pissed at your Mom. It would be outrageous to say you were any better at denying guilt.

You were guilt tripped by religion and live in the delusion that by rejecting it you are ipso facto freed from that guilt. It doesn't work like that. You can't free yourself from guilt you are unaware that you deny but actually feel. God is forgiveness and God is real. The God you rejected is a joke and rejecting a joke is just another kind of joke. We are all forgiven. We just don't know it where it feels real.

That's beautiful, dude.

Personally I don't think that G-d and religion have much in common.