Fully sub-16ms LCD?

[kaishaku72]

Does an LCD exist which can update any pixel to any other
color in under 16ms across the full range of 24 bit colors?

 

[klah]

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050526/viewsonic-05.html

Finally we have a monitor that delivers what we'd been waiting for so long - a panel that's constantly below 16 ms of latency. This is because it does no good to have a panel capable of 8 ms if the actual latency attains values of 25 or even 30 ms in the worst cases. The 8 ms Samsung panels, for example, aren't fast because they attain 8 ms at the ISO measurement point, but because their maximum latency is "only" 26 ms. The VP191b has put all other LCD panels on notice. The ISO latency of this MVA/Overdrive panel is only 15 ms, but that 15 ms is constant throughout the use range.

 

[Inappropriate4AT]

Yeah those are 6-bit panels though, 8-bit panels still have catching up to do.

 

[Keeir]

I believe that Viewsonic uses a 8-bit S-MVA panel with Overdrive manufactored by AU

There will be a number of panels comming to market in the next 6 monthes that promise 8-bit <16ms changes across the spectrum.

This includes something called S-PVA from Samsung and improvements on S-MVA by AU and I assume Phillips will try to put something out as well...

 

[xtknight]

That is an 8-bit S-PVA with Overdrive enabled. Overdrive can introduce artifacts though. There may be a couple huge LCD TVs that can sustain under 16ms. without Overdrive. Other than that, non-existent.

 

[mrkun]

Unfortunately, that monitor is no longer being produced. The VP930b is its replacement, but it uses a slightly different panel, and I have yet to see any benchies of it.

 

[kaishaku72]

Originally posted by: kaishaku72
Does an LCD exist which can update any pixel to any other
color in under 16ms across the full range of 24 bit colors?

Does anyone feel like sharing their predictions of upcoming
LCDs with these capabilities so we can keep an eye on them?

I am hoping Samsung has something in an S-PVA panel soon,
but I will also consider S-IPS. Much depends on response times
measured by professional reviewers, not shady specifications.

 

[Keeir]

the Samsung S-PVA panels are supposedly soon

I think the model numbers are

770P and 970P

I have heard some good things like -really- low black levels
but since its using a form of Overdrive, there is probably the potential for artifacts especially during films

Still waiting for a quality review....

 

[kaishaku72]

I've been watching the 970p and 770p more than anything else, but
Samsung has other panels with lower advertised response, ie. 730BF.

Then there are other makers using Samsung panels advertising great
times, but I wonder which Samsung models they share panels with.

For now, it will be good to know which models share panels with 770p, 970p,
730BF, etc. so we can perhaps glean something from the panels' capabilities
without seeing reviews of the actual Samsung model using that panel.
( IMHO, Samsung seems to be compensating for previous release PR
woes by not making much fuss over some of their new fast LCDs...yet? )

I've still not seen reviewer measurements on any of these yet.

I would also like to see S-IPS makers' stab at fast LCDs considering the
traditionally greater range of response times PVAs can give you.

 

[kaishaku72]

Here's the best 770P review I know of (in English):

http://www.behardware.com/articles/594-...ng-syncmaster-770p-pva-6ms-1500-1.html

I would have bought a 970P weeks ago if it I could have
done so without fear of being stuck with a dead pixel.

But now I am content to wait for response measurements.

 

[kaishaku72]

I'd also be interesting in knowing a bit more about the
letter designations following Samsung model numbers.

I know this affects dead pixel return policies...

http://www.behardware.com/articles/519-9/lcd-screens-dead-pixels.html

If the 4ms 730BF is marginally faster than the 770P,
I would opt for the P, simply for peace of mind.

But, I am getting ahead of myself until I see response graphs.

 

[Keeir]

Unless I am wrong, usually the -30B lines refer to TN panels. These would be very fast, but be only 6-bit and significantly worse viewing angles...

 

[kaishaku72]

You're right, scratch the 730BF (and all BF)... thanks.

I just noticed that one this morning on Samsung AU.

 

[lifeguard1999]

BenQ 2ms panel coming soon.

 

[kaishaku72]

I wonder if a 12/16ms LG S-IPS is "better" than a 6/8ms Samsung S-PVA.

I am under the impression you cannot compare the response times on
S-IPS and S-PVA directly, even Anandtech's reviews shows this.

I wonder if even the latest and greatest S-PVA is still not as responsive
as the current generation of S-IPS... let alone something upcoming.

 

[kaishaku72]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
BenQ 2ms panel coming soon.

That's another 6-bit TN panel unfortunately...

 

[lifeguard1999]

Originally posted by: kaishaku72

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
BenQ 2ms panel coming soon.

That's another 6-bit TN panel unfortunately...

Really? Where did you read that?

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999

Originally posted by: kaishaku72

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
BenQ 2ms panel coming soon.

That's another 6-bit TN panel unfortunately...

Really? Where did you read that?

It says 16.2 million colors an 8 bit panel would have 16.7 million

 

[o2brew]

Originally posted by: mrkun
Unfortunately, that monitor is no longer being produced. The VP930b is its replacement, but it uses a slightly different panel, and I have yet to see any benchies of it.

Translated review at tomshardware.fr

It appears to be about the same as the vp191. Maxes out at 17ms response, slightly slower than the 191 but also reduces or eliminates the 'overshoot' that overdrive panels sometimes suffer from. The OSD finally displays numerical values for settings like brightness as well.

 

[lifeguard1999]

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999

Originally posted by: kaishaku72

Originally posted by: lifeguard1999
BenQ 2ms panel coming soon.

That's another 6-bit TN panel unfortunately...

Really? Where did you read that?

It says 16.2 million colors an 8 bit panel would have 16.7 million

Good catch. I did not notice that.

 

[kaishaku72]

Originally posted by: o2brew

Originally posted by: mrkun
Unfortunately, that monitor is no longer being produced. The VP930b is its replacement, but it uses a slightly different panel, and I have yet to see any benchies of it.

Translated review at tomshardware.fr

It appears to be about the same as the vp191. Maxes out at 17ms response, slightly slower than the 191 but also reduces or eliminates the 'overshoot' that overdrive panels sometimes suffer from. The OSD finally displays numerical values for settings like brightness as well.

That's pretty decent. An AU MVA truecolor panel advertised at 8ms gray-to-gray.
I can't wait to see how the new Samsung S-PVA panels response times compare.

And, still would like to see a new S-IPS thrown into the mix, with in-depth analysis.

 

[kaishaku72]

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20050830/pro_lcd-07.html (Edit: scroll to bottom)
On top is an S-IPS panel rated 30ms rise+fall. Rating seems correct.
On bottom is an MVA panel rated at 8ms gray-to-gray...

Has anyone seen a similar test on S-IPS panels with 12/16ms advertised response times?

http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=1974&p=7
On the left is a PVA panel rated 25ms rise+fall.
On the right is a S-IPS panel rated 16ms rise+fall.

I'd like to see more tests on the fastest S-IPS panels before I buy my next LCD.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: fierydemise
It says 16.2 million colors an 8 bit panel would have 16.7 million

Not all TN are 6-bit or PVA are 8-bit. Additionally some vendors still report 16.7m for 6-bit panels. It probably is TN/6-bit though. Adding that much overdrive to an MVA panel with higher native response would be an artifacting nightmare.

 

[kaishaku72]

It is 6-bit.