Full upgrade to mATX setup. Insite and opinions needed

[Freezebyte]

Greetings all, I feel way outa touch with the PC market. Guess that?s what happens when you start playing your PC games less and more on you 360 and Wii and the PC is delegated to work related tasks

In any case, I built a top of the line PC *back then* in August of 2005 that i'm still running to this day and it?s been showing the signs of its age. Web pages will actually spike out my cpu usage and when I multitask, even watching a video and swapping windows, I get a really nice stutter effect. Don't even ask about playing games like Crysis.......

Here's the good old stable setup that has served me well these past three years

Athlon 64 3700+
Asus A8N SLi Premium
BFG 7800GTX Oc PCI-E
Corsair 3200 XMS 2gig DDR1
2x Seagate 160gig IDE 7200.7 Barracudas
IDE Plextor PX-716A
Soundblaster Audigy 2
Antec Neo HE 500watt PSU
Windows XP SP3
Stored in Antec P180

This setup has served me well and very stable. Hardly had any issues with it other then my old Antec PSU blowing and being replaced under warranty and Windows needing a few rebuilds over the years.

Its amazing how fast one get can out of touch with current market trends and technology changes when not reading up. Needless to say, since I decided that by the end of this year I needed a new setup, i've been spending alot of time on both new and old PC tech sites as well as Wikipedia catching up on the gazillions of new CPU models and chipsets. Things sure have changed allot since I built my first Athlon XP PC back in 2001.

Now, sad as it is to say, looks like AMD is not going to be catching up any time soon to Intel, so i've decided to go switch once again to the colossal giant and take advantage of their new blazing fast Core 2's and Quads that everyone has been ranting and raving about. My P4 Northwood setup was a good rig and my Intel/ASUS P4P-800 board was rock solid so I have no qualms of going back to the big I man.

Back in my early days, I was a big PC modder, building and pretty much bought every kinda modding accessory you could think of and purchased a new case every 4-6 months to have a reason to mod. Some of my cases has over a dozen fans just because "I could"

Now i'm a bit older,wiser and just have different priorities in my life *and more bills since moving out* The idea of a nice small SFF system sitting on my desk with new age tech appeals to me instead of my monstrous P180 sitting next to my leg on the floor sucking up dust and cat hair or having blue neons with a LCD screen giving me temp readouts with personally painted on geek graphics on the case as the scream of 120mm fans suck in enough air to fuel a jet engine. No thanks, fun at the time, but not anymore

I've decided to go the mATX route and have already purchased a nice Silverstone Sugo SG01F case to build my new system on. I realize that mATX won't give me as many options as ATX, but i'd much rather have the nice, small form factor in my PC room and I have no desire to OC anymore. My three big musts for my PC's are now "Stability, reliability and speed" in that order. No more large ATX cases either.

I plan on reusing my 7800GTX for the time being until I can determine what newer card would suit my needs best and that I simply can't justify the cost of a new card right now. At this time, im only playing WoW with some older PC games, but I wouldn't mind having a newer card to play Crysis and have it not be a slide show the last time I tried it on my old setup.

I'm well aware at the very exciting news about the Nehalem CPU coming out this fall, and I would very much like to have that in my system, however I?m curious to the nature if there will be any mATX boards available near launch time without having to wait until 2009. If it turns out to be the case, I'd rather not wait and will stick with the Penyrns and get a good deal on equipment with the Nehalem?s coming out to market.

Due to the unstable and unliked nature of Vista, I will continue to use Windows XP until I see a more stable OS from Microsoft.

I will replacing the DVD drive to a SATA DVD burner of some kind to reduce cabling clutter. I'll be replacing the tired IDE drives with a single large SATA drive from Seagate or WDD. I will be reusing my Antec 500 NeoHE until getting a newer video card that warrants a power increase


That being said, I have the following questions and could use incite or opinions on what to do.


1. If the their are no mATX boards at launch of Nehalem, what is one of the more popular mATX boards for the Penyrns? I plan on going Quad Core as I now only plan on upgrading/replacing my PC's every 2-3 years so I want them to last. Again, i WILL NOT be overclocking in any shape or form.

I value system stability and reliability over speed gains from pushing/frying hardware. I did my OCing in my earlier days and it no longer suits me. From my research the ASUS P5Q-EM, ASUS P5E-VM DO, Intel BOXDQ35JOE, DFI LP JR P45-T2RS ASRock G43Twins-FullHD seem to be popular models.

2. I notice alot of mATX boards have onboard graphics. I still wish to continue to run a higher end separate PCI-E card for games. Any particular mobo's to avoid that have conflicting issues with onboard/PCI-E video?


3. Is it worth getting a board that supports the 1600mhz FSB vs the 1333 FSB for CPU's and RAM? Their is definently cost increase between the two. Is DDR3 that much more of improvement or more of a refinement?

4. I have a 5.1 Logitech Z-5300e sound system that I think would benefit from upgrading my soundcard to a X-Fi card vs my old Audigy 2 5.1. Any incite or am I just throwing money away? I mostly just listen to music and play games, I don't do video/audio editing or anything



Sorry for the long post but I wanted to give details in regards to what im doing and using my PC for and where I wanna go with it. Thanks for any incite, input, suggestions or advice you can give me.

 

[o1die]

DDr3 is still priced a little high; If you really want to avoid building again for awhile, I would wait for nehalem and decide if you want a new nehalem or a wolfdale cpu at closeout prices. I always use Frys as a benchmark for pricing. Some of their ads are listed online; I use the dallas ad. Frys will have nehalem in stock about the same time as newegg, but they will not discount it for awhile.

 

[Zap]

Welcome to the forums, Freezebyte.

For mATX Penryn boards, any using recent Intel chipsets should be fine. For non-overclocking, the actual Intel branded boards might be the way to go, perhaps one that uses the G45 chipset (around $115 on Newegg).

Generally speaking you can use PCIe video cards just fine. Onboard graphics should disable themselves automatically.

AFAIK no mATX board uses a chipset that officially supports 1600MHz FSB. That being said, some brands such as Asus and Gigabyte have overclocking features built in to support the higher speed. Unless you are overclocking your CPU, you probably don't need 1600MHz FSB because the only CPU with that FSB is the QX9770, which costs upwards of $1000.

For audio, why not give onboard a try? Since your last system, motherboards now have HD audio and put out much cleaner sound. Now, if you are accustomed to (and like) the overprocessed sound that a Soundblaster puts out, then onboard might sound kind of flat to your ears. However, onboard audio has come a looooooong way since AC'97. Besides, it is free to try.

 

[nerp]

Now i'm a bit older,wiser and just have different priorities in my life *and more bills since moving out* The idea of a nice small SFF system sitting on my desk with new age tech appeals to me instead of my monstrous P180 sitting next to my leg on the floor sucking up dust and cat hair or having blue neons with a LCD screen giving me temp readouts with personally painted on geek graphics on the case as the scream of 120mm fans suck in enough air to fuel a jet engine. No thanks, fun at the time, but not anymore.

hahaha, classic. I know what you mean, totally. This is funny.

 

[nyker96]

Just to offer a different opion. Since you planning to build your rig for the long haul, I would still suggest a nice rig like P180 to keep the components cooler. And going ATX will give you much more choices as well. I personally is also going the stability//value//just works route. But I do suggest a slight OC at least if you going Intel sincetheir new 45nm are very easy to push and from my experience quite stable. If you are think about stability and value then I'd go with P45,4GB DDR2,Xigmatec S1283, Q9xxx or Q8xxx for quad or dual core choices, if you light game get the 4850. I believe your 500W PSU is ok as well for this setup. dump the rest of the money to harddrives. This setup quite practical for applications and light gaming. You just need to slightly OC the rig to get more value out of it. That's it.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: nyker96
I would still suggest a nice rig like P180 to keep the components cooler. And going ATX will give you much more choices as well.

I agree with the "more choices" but disagree with ATX keeping components cooler. Yes, in a sense they do because there are a lot of ATX choices out there with tons of fans. However, that isn't to say that you are unable to build a micro ATX system that runs cool. The Silverstone TJ08 and Antec NSK3480 both have as good airflow as any ATX case short of windtunnels like the Antec 900/1200, and both can handle huge tower heatpipe coolers and the biggest video cards ever sold short of the Voodoo 6. Cooler Master has a mATX Centurion case that is as good in airflow as the ATX versions, and there is an Aspire version as well in your choice of colors and side windows. Also, it is possible to find normal ATX cases with not-so-optimal airflow.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Unfortunately for me, I find out some things only after I tried something. This time it was with a 780G motherboard with integrated HD 3200. I noticed a microscopic difference between a video card installed in that machine and the integrated video while watching 1080p videos. And while installing UT2004, I noticed images were appearing block by block instead of appearing instantly with the IGP. This was not the case when I had a video card in place.

Anyway, someone explained to me it was the fact that the integrated video uses system RAM which is much slower than the RAM on video cards. I just ordered an HD 4670 video card with 2000 MHz speed RAM.

But, that raises a new question. Why get a micro-ATX motherboard with integrated video when you're not going to use it? Then I found out that some boards now have sideport memory which is a way to get that fast RAM you need for HD video.

Oh well, it's too late for me. Now I know the only way I'd get a micro-ATX is if it has sideport memory. And if those are twice the price of the other ones, may as well get something like the HD 4670 AND a full ATX motherboard.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan
But, that raises a new question. Why get a micro-ATX motherboard with integrated video when you're not going to use it?

I've been doing that for years. I buy the motherboard because it is micro ATX and not because it has integrated video. Been many, many years since I've had more than two hard drives or optical drives in a computer, and more than three expansion cards (video plus two others). So, why have a machine taking up extra space with empty space inside that I know absolutely for sure that I won't use? Now, I still need the system to take a decent video card (since I'm a gamer) and take otherwise "normal" sized parts (drives, PSU) so micro ATX makes perfect sense to me.

And if it comes with integrated video, it'll just be something on the board that I don't use. Heck, many people using full ATX systems use a PCI or PCIe sound card when they have onboard sound. Why not buy an ATX board without onboard sound? Oh yeah, because they don't make 'em that way. Why not buy a micro ATX board without onboard video? Because 99% of them are made that way. (Yes I'm aware of the new DFI mATX board w/o IGP and aware of boards in the past w/o IGP, but they're rare and not necessarily the best.)

 

[Freezebyte]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan
But, that raises a new question. Why get a micro-ATX motherboard with integrated video when you're not going to use it?

I've been doing that for years. I buy the motherboard because it is micro ATX and not because it has integrated video. Been many, many years since I've had more than two hard drives or optical drives in a computer, and more than three expansion cards (video plus two others). So, why have a machine taking up extra space with empty space inside that I know absolutely for sure that I won't use? Now, I still need the system to take a decent video card (since I'm a gamer) and take otherwise "normal" sized parts (drives, PSU) so micro ATX makes perfect sense to me.

And if it comes with integrated video, it'll just be something on the board that I don't use. Heck, many people using full ATX systems use a PCI or PCIe sound card when they have onboard sound. Why not buy an ATX board without onboard sound? Oh yeah, because they don't make 'em that way. Why not buy a micro ATX board without onboard video? Because 99% of them are made that way. (Yes I'm aware of the new DFI mATX board w/o IGP and aware of boards in the past w/o IGP, but they're rare and not necessarily the best.)

^ Yeah, that.....

 

[Freezebyte]

Any other suggestions or input?

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Freezebyte
Any other suggestions or input?

What other suggestions or input are you looking for? You mean a second opinion? Good luck on finding other micro ATX users in enthusiast forums. Most buy overly huge systems which are mostly empty as a allusion to the emptiness in their souls, and the rest hide their micro ATX systems as if it were a social disease.

 

[Freezebyte]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Freezebyte
Any other suggestions or input?

What other suggestions or input are you looking for? You mean a second opinion? Good luck on finding other micro ATX users in enthusiast forums. Most buy overly huge systems which are mostly empty as a allusion to the emptiness in their souls, and the rest hide their micro ATX systems as if it were a social disease.

So if this isn't the place for such questions, were then should I go?

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you have your heart set on micro-ATX, don't forget about the 780G platform. If you want quad-core in the future, you can easily drop in a Phenom. For starters, you could go with a BE-2400 (2.3Ghz dual-core) 45w CPU.

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Freezebyte
Any other suggestions or input?

What other suggestions or input are you looking for? You mean a second opinion? Good luck on finding other micro ATX users in enthusiast forums. Most buy overly huge systems which are mostly empty as a allusion to the emptiness in their souls, and the rest hide their micro ATX systems as if it were a social disease.

that's the funniest thing I've heard all week here. Nice one :]

But as for OP I also second VirtualLarry on 780G which seems to be the best mATX chipset of any platform right now. However, that just means you have to go with an AMD. If you can live with this then I think 780G will be feature rich and extremely power saving.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: nyker96

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Freezebyte
Any other suggestions or input?

What other suggestions or input are you looking for? You mean a second opinion? Good luck on finding other micro ATX users in enthusiast forums. Most buy overly huge systems which are mostly empty as a allusion to the emptiness in their souls, and the rest hide their micro ATX systems as if it were a social disease.

that's the funniest thing I've heard all week here. Nice one :]

But as for OP I also second VirtualLarry on 780G which seems to be the best mATX chipset of any platform right now. However, that just means you have to go with an AMD. If you can live with this then I think 780G will be feature rich and extremely power saving.

780G is the best platform? What about the 790G? I got the 780G because it was cheaper. lol, the funniest thing about it is I read 790G is not actually a technological change, it's actually like an overclocked 780G. So, they come out with 790G and the 780G becomes cheaper. It's like they gave me a free gift. The price difference almost pays for my HD4670 video card. Hahahaha.

 

[Dadofamunky]

My position is very similar to yours. Your AMD box looks great and I can see why it's been rock-stable. Mine has too and is almost exactly the same age.

I built a very good microATX box myself (see specs below) and I like the form factor a lot. I frankly do not have the space for a bigger setup. My only significant issue is that I can't find any non-water cooling solutions that safely accommodate a mild 20% OC on my system. But if you're not planning on any OCing then I cannot see any issues for you whatsoever. Gigabyte also has one or two uATX boards that are worth considering. I think you'll be pleased with the performance results.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: nyker96
that's the funniest thing I've heard all week here. Nice one :]

You obviously haven't read my other posts here and here.

Sorry Freezebyte, I was in a flippant mood earlier.

Anyways, approach building a micro ATX system just like a regular ATX system. Pretty much all parts will be the same, except for the motherboard and case. Using the same concepts, choose a case that has good airflow and decent construction. With the motherboards, you have to be a bit more careful as components are packed closer together. One typical problem is that dual-slot video cards may cover SATA ports on some boards - important to know and avoid if you use a dual-slot card and a lot of drives. Otherwise, just choose a board with features you want. Well, boards pretty much all have the same features, so just keep an eye on details such as layout, whether it supports your CPU, more esoteric items such as Firewire, network speed, onboard RAID support, eSATA...

 

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: nyker96
that's the funniest thing I've heard all week here. Nice one :]

You obviously haven't read my other posts http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=31&threadid=2230330">here</a> and here.

Sorry Freezebyte, I was in a flippant mood earlier.

Anyways, approach building a micro ATX system just like a regular ATX system. Pretty much all parts will be the same, except for the motherboard and case. Using the same concepts, choose a case that has good airflow and decent construction. With the motherboards, you have to be a bit more careful as components are packed closer together. One typical problem is that dual-slot video cards may cover SATA ports on some boards - important to know and avoid if you use a dual-slot card and a lot of drives. Otherwise, just choose a board with features you want. Well, boards pretty much all have the same features, so just keep an eye on details such as layout, whether it supports your CPU, more esoteric items such as Firewire, network speed, onboard RAID support, eSATA...

Thermaltake and Coolermaster have some well-ventilated micro-ATX cases. The only thing with those cases with the front mesh is you can hear the fans. lol So, I prefer to change the stock heatsink and fans with heatpipe heatsinks that can accomodate a (silent) fan. (Nexus, Noctua and Scythe have silent fans. Coolermaster, Thermalright and a bunch of others have heatpipe heatsinks.)

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Freezebyte

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Freezebyte
Any other suggestions or input?

What other suggestions or input are you looking for? You mean a second opinion? Good luck on finding other micro ATX users in enthusiast forums. Most buy overly huge systems which are mostly empty as a allusion to the emptiness in their souls, and the rest hide their micro ATX systems as if it were a social disease.

So if this isn't the place for such questions, were then should I go?

HardOCP has a lot of mATX enthusiasts.