Full Tonga might have 35CUs and 2240 shaders

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
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EDIT: As some people have pointed out in this thread, the shader count may have been reported wrong but the CU is right because sisoftware sandra thinks each CU have 80 shaders and not 64 shaders.


Found this today at sisoftsandra.

DKJdpXH.jpg



According to the site, Tonga have in total 2240 shaders and 35CUs. The site also reports 28CU`s but that is only 1792 shaders (R9 285). The program doesnt put out 2240 shaders in random, so there got to exist a Tonga chip with that amount of shaders.
The memory bus is confirmed 256bit in total due to the 2GB VRAM (needs to be 1.5/3/6GB to be 384bit).

The GPU was tested just recently 3 days ago (R9 300 series?) and what is more interesting is that the GPU have 40% better speed efficiency than the R9 285 that was tested in 2014. 1.29MPix/s/Mhz vs 1.10MPix/s/MHz. AMD may have worked its magic to make it as efficient as they can to be ready to face Nvidia.

MkSyEL9.jpg




If you look at the score, 1194 Mpix/s (full Tonga) vs 1061 MPix/s (R9 285):
40UJnnl.jpg



its 13% faster. But at the same time, the full Tonga only runs at 928MHz while the R9 285 runs at 965MHz. So if you take that in to consideration,
(35CU * 928MHz) / (28CU * 965MHz), you get +20%, not very far away from the score it was over the R9 285.
If this unknown GPU was also a 28CU, it would have scored 4% LESS than the R9 285. So we know it doesnt have that.

And on top of that we know that Tonga have a die size of 366mm2. The same die size as R9 280X which have 2048 shaders (like R9 285). BUT R9 280X have a 384bit memory bus that takes space, while Tonga have a smaller 256bit bus but have memory optimizations to help it. That should make more room for the additional shaders up to 2240 shaders.
Plus Tonga is GCN 1.2 while R9 280X is GCN 1.0. We know that AMD have made the chips denser from 1.0 to 1.1 so we should also assume the transistors on the full Tonga (1.2) is more dense than R9 280X making even more room for more shaders.

So to summarize:

We may have a full Tonga that have the following specs out soon:
R9 3xx: 35CUs, 2240 Shaders running at 928MHz. 2GB GDDR5 @ 256bit.

It will be placed in the R9 300 series somewhere, AMD seems to have saved it for when it was really needed. Which will be against the Maxwell series. Priced correctly it may not be a bad choice. We saw a 40% better efficiency vs the R9 285, so AMD seem to have tweaked the chip to get better performance out of it.
We know thanks to VR-zone that AMD plan to release Tonga for the 300 series under the name Antigua, so a full Tonga would be much better than releasing R9 285 again.
 
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DiogoDX

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
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Actual GCN is a "quad engine" arquitecture. So no full chips with 35CUs.

32 (tahiti)>36>40>44 (hawaii) etc....
 
Feb 19, 2009
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It's not a re-brand if they can tweak Tonga for a massive efficiency improvement.

So if its true, it means AMD is evolving Tonga into Antigua, with lots of improvements to get it competitive.
 

Cloudfire777

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Mar 24, 2013
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Actual GCN is a "quad engine" arquitecture. So no full chips with 35CUs.

32 (tahiti)>36>40>44 (hawaii) etc....
Never head about this before.
A quick google revealed HD 8770, with 14 CUs. So I think it may just be easier to design them quad-like but not a requirement :)

It's not a re-brand if they can tweak Tonga for a massive efficiency improvement.

So if its true, it means AMD is evolving Tonga into Antigua, with lots of improvements to get it competitive.
VR-zone probably heard Tonga and assumed the full Tonga have already been released = Rebrand
 
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Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
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35 CUs is a really odd number.

IMO, I look at this as a tremendous failure somewhere in the line. For months AMD have been selling only cut down chips and getting a fraction of the die's value, essentially writing off the unlocked shaders.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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35 CUs is a really odd number.

IMO, I look at this as a tremendous failure somewhere in the line. For months AMD have been selling only cut down chips and getting a fraction of the die's value, essentially writing off the unlocked shaders.

For months they've been selling full dies to Apple.

Plus, full-die Tonga without any efficiency tweaks won't look appealing against 970 either. It'll just be a 280X + 10/20% with high power use.
 

geoxile

Senior member
Sep 23, 2014
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Never head about this before.
A quick google revealed HD 8770, with 14 CUs. So I think it may just be easier to design them quad-like but not a requirement :)


VR-zone probably heard Tonga and assumed the full Tonga have already been released = Rebrand

Bonaire XTX, found in the 260X has 896 cores, or 14CUs. I guess that's also the same GPU found in the 8770.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
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For months they've been selling full dies to Apple.

Plus, full-die Tonga without any efficiency tweaks won't look appealing against 970 either. It'll just be a 280X + 10/20% with high power use.

I meant if we assume this 35 CU rumour is true then nobody has been getting a full die. Which is why it is extremely likely to be false.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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I meant if we assume this 35 CU rumour is true then nobody has been getting a full die. Which is why it is extremely likely to be false.

That's assuming this new Antigua chip is actually identical to Tonga.

Lots of unknowns. Surprisingly tight with the leaks.
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I meant if we assume this 35 CU rumour is true then nobody has been getting a full die. Which is why it is extremely likely to be false.

They also could have been selling the duds....Time will tell if true.
 

msi2

Junior Member
Oct 23, 2012
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Why 35CU?? That doesn't make sense... The first picture indicates 28CU and 2240SP. That means somehow AMD put 80SP in each CU.
 

Opcode

Junior Member
Mar 27, 2015
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Looks like that outdated version of Sandra is reporting compute units as containing 80 shaders which is a bug I've seen before. Tonga Pro (R9 285) is a cut down version of Tonga XT (32CU 2048 shaders).
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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There s other sisoftware submissions that indeed point the chip as 2048 SPs.
 

DiogoDX

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
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Never head about this before.
A quick google revealed HD 8770, with 14 CUs. So I think it may just be easier to design them quad-like but not a requirement :)
4 shader engines with they geometry and tesselator. So unless tonga don't have 64sps per CU or have a different front end the full chip will not have 35CUs.

Tonga 4 shader engine with 7 CUs per block (cut down 1 CU per shader engine): http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8460/285Block.jpg
Hawaii 4 shader engines with 11 CUs per block: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7457/HawaiiArch.png

8770 is bonaire that is dual shader engine with 7 CUs per block: http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2013/03/sapphire-radeon-hd-7790-1gb-review/7790-10b.jpg
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
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Looks like that outdated version of Sandra is reporting compute units as containing 80 shaders which is a bug I've seen before. Tonga Pro (R9 285) is a cut down version of Tonga XT (32CU 2048 shaders).

Great information on your first post.

Welcome to anandtech

I think people get carried away super easy sometimes. They have to know that when an app reports specs, its is just a result of the preset data in the software. It just reports whatever is in its database.

When you see a strange looking result, it is usually always a result of incorrect data. Or a bug.

Just like gpuz on prerelease cards. These specs are meaningless and are only correct when their database is updated with the proper information. This we see all the time. But it is not unusual to have software report completely incorrect specs and attributes.
 

Cloudfire777

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Mar 24, 2013
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Looks like that outdated version of Sandra is reporting compute units as containing 80 shaders which is a bug I've seen before. Tonga Pro (R9 285) is a cut down version of Tonga XT (32CU 2048 shaders).
Im curious. Show me other GCN GPUs reported as 80 shaders per CU.
There could be that the software reads correct shader amount but wrong CUs too.
Who said Tonga XT in the M295X is a full Tonga? AMD have never clarified that before.

4 shader engines with they geometry and tesselator. So unless tonga don't have 64sps per CU or have a different front end the full chip will not have 35CUs.

Tonga 4 shader engine with 7 CUs per block (cut down 1 CU per shader engine): http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8460/285Block.jpg
Hawaii 4 shader engines with 11 CUs per block: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7457/HawaiiArch.png

8770 is bonaire that is dual shader engine with 7 CUs per block: http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2013/03/sapphire-radeon-hd-7790-1gb-review/7790-10b.jpg
And what is 7x5 ie 7 CUs per 5 blocks? 35CUs.
That fit Tonga's layout. And 35CUs x 64 shaders is 2240 shaders.
That there exist a 32CU Tonga means they have disabled something somewhere in the R9 285.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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28*64=1792. Funny enough the specs of a 285. Maybe its time to stop using sisoftsandra to fuel the rumourmill.
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
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Thanks.

Well then I might believe that this 2240SP might be wrong. Thats too bad.

I still don`t get why the last Tonga that was tested had 40% better efficiency though. Unless sisoftware sandra reports wrong there as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgTMxB-ffjM

7:30, fully enabled Tonga is utterly crushed by GTX 980M 1536 CUDA cores.
GTX 970M @ 1280 shaders beat M295X by 15-20% so a 1536 core GTX 980M is pretty far ahead of the Tonga yes. M295X chip is only used by Apple and Dell anyway, so AMD needs a more efficient chip ASAP to retake some market share in the mobile market
 
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