Fukushima Radiation Levels At 'Unimaginable' Levels

[Moonbeam]

https://www.iter.org/

That carrot has been dangled in front of us for many many decades as being mere decades away, as condition that I fear likely to stay that way. Meanwhile, other utopian dreams are advancing at rapid rates, like the artificial leaf to convert water into hydrogen to burn in fuel cells. That one can be installed in the home and power a families needs, or in a village with the same results. No parts will become radioactive and deteriorate requiring multi millions in replacement and storage costs for thousands of years. To produce nuclear waste is a moral crime. Humans evolved to shit up a place and then move. That doesn't work now that we dominate the planet and our shit kills for thousands of years. Time to grow up. With fuel cells we can burn our waste and mix it with cement and fill potholes or build new buildings.

 

[crashtech]

You make a number of convenient but wrong assumptions. I do not see traditional energy sources as the logical alternative to nuclear. I distinguish between rational assessment of risks and wide eyed ignorant fear of the unknown, Because I do not see traditional energy sources as the logical alternative to nuclear, but rather see renewable energy as the logical alternative, I do now need to ask myself whether CO2 or radiation are the greater rick. I don't want either risk.

It's a misguided assumption that renewables can take the role of base load generation in the medium term. They can't. A more thorough understanding of the challenges facing the energy industry is essential before asserting that renewables could provide 100% of our needs.

I'm pleased that my own state gets over half its energy from renewable sources, and I hope you would believe me when I say I wish it was 100%. It's just not technically feasible right now, just like the fusion power dream you perhaps rightly dismiss as being ever just out of reach.

 

[Ichinisan]

Dude cmon man. Are you deliberately being dense? Read the article. The reactor had the highest reading ever recorded since 2011, you can start there. They have discovered new leaks. Wooosh?

What would cause radioactivity to increase?

 

[IronWing]

What would cause radioactivity to increase?

As the fuel and fission products decay daughter products with shorter half lives are produced which then decay so the level of radiation can increase over time. This is one of the processes that makes storing high level wastes so much fun. For a long term waste facility like the proposed/not-proposed/proposed again Yucca Mountain, the radiation level is expected to peak in ~10,000 years before it starts to drop off.

 

[norseamd]

That carrot has been dangled in front of us for many many decades as being mere decades away, as condition that I fear likely to stay that way. Meanwhile, other utopian dreams are advancing at rapid rates, like the artificial leaf to convert water into hydrogen to burn in fuel cells. That one can be installed in the home and power a families needs, or in a village with the same results. No parts will become radioactive and deteriorate requiring multi millions in replacement and storage costs for thousands of years. To produce nuclear waste is a moral crime. Humans evolved to shit up a place and then move. That doesn't work now that we dominate the planet and our shit kills for thousands of years. Time to grow up. With fuel cells we can burn our waste and mix it with cement and fill potholes or build new buildings.

You should keep up on fusion power more often. There have been some huge advances recently, and ITER is going to bring at least a few big things. It literally might be 20 years away by now before we get our first commercial reactors. You are mistaking technology as holding fusion power back, when it has been funding and business that has been holding fusion power back.

 

[norseamd]

As the fuel and fission products decay daughter products with shorter half lives are produced which then decay so the level of radiation can increase over time. This is one of the processes that makes storing high level wastes so much fun. For a long term waste facility like the proposed/not-proposed/proposed again Yucca Mountain, the radiation level is expected to peak in ~10,000 years before it starts to drop off.

Suppose its actually better that way, high radiation for a few thousand years is definitely better than moderate radiation for a few million years. Maybe not for us, but its definitely better for the world.

 

[IronWing]

Suppose its actually better that way, high radiation for a few thousand years is definitely better than moderate radiation for a few million years. Maybe not for us, but its definitely better for the world.

To me, this is the major selling point of breeder reactors. In the long term, the waste problem is much less of a problem.

 

[Eug]

I don't have much to add about the reactors, but I just wanted to mention that there is a good movie called Black Rain from Japan (not the one with Michael Douglas).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Rain_(1989_Japanese_film)

It's about the affects of radiation on a local village after the bomb was dropped. Not just physical effects, but psychological and cultural effects.

 

[norseamd]

To me, this is the major selling point of breeder reactors. In the long term, the waste problem is much less of a problem.

In all honestly, I dont there is much to worry about storing nuclear waste thousands of meters below the surface of Earth. But is Yucca Mountain itself that deep? I thought it was not very deep under a relatively small hill.

 

[JSt0rm]

how about we use wind, solar and geothermal power and forget about shit that creates waste products that last 20k years. Pretty sure people in 15k years arent going to be pleased about still having to manage our bullshit.

 

[crashtech]

how about we use wind, solar and geothermal power and forget about shit that creates waste products that last 20k years. Pretty sure people in 15k years arent going to be pleased about still having to manage our bullshit.

Don't forget hydro! We are doing that. But these power sources are all intermittent, and require both base load and peak load supplementation at our present level of development. Massive infrastructure investments and advances in materials science are required to achieve the goal of 100% renewable energy. Pumped storage is a current technology that can be used to store intermittent power sources, but it's hugely expensive and somewhat inefficient. Little other tech is available to deploy on the massive scale required, though.

 

[norseamd]

Don't forget hydro! We are doing that. But these power sources are all intermittent, and require both base load and peak load supplementation at our present level of development. Massive infrastructure investments and advances in materials science are required to achieve the goal of 100% renewable energy. Pumped storage is a current technology that can be used to store intermittent power sources, but it's hugely expensive and somewhat inefficient. Little other tech is available to deploy on the massive scale required, though.

Hydropower has to be one of the most destructive forms of power on Earth.

 

[JSt0rm]

Don't forget hydro! We are doing that. But these power sources are all intermittent, and require both base load and peak load supplementation at our present level of development. Massive infrastructure investments and advances in materials science are required to achieve the goal of 100% renewable energy. Pumped storage is a current technology that can be used to store intermittent power sources, but it's hugely expensive and somewhat inefficient. Little other tech is available to deploy on the massive scale required, though.

Im sure people in 7000 years arent going to give a fuck about any of that when they are still spending money taking care of our waste. We are going to be seen as the biggest assholes to ever walk around on the planet.

 

[crashtech]

Hydropower has to be one of the most destructive forms of power on Earth.

To each their own. It's zero emissions. There are problems associated with salmon and other wildlife, but I've never been convinced they are insurmountable. If we are not willing to give up our modern way of life en masse, all forms of energy production and all types of research into new tech need to be on the table. I'm a green energy advocate, but I'm a pragmatist, which means I am simply an energy advocate. Better, cleaner, more efficient always, but keep it flowing.

 

[crashtech]

Im sure people in 7000 years arent going to give a fuck about any of that when they are still spending money taking care of our waste. We are going to be seen as the biggest assholes to ever walk around on the planet.

I can't have a dialogue with an appeal to emotion, sorry. I do continue to respect your right to oppose nuclear energy, but it would be nice if those that wish to involve themselves in the discussion would take the time to really learn about the energy problems we face.

 

[JSt0rm]

To each their own. It's zero emissions. There are problems associated with salmon and other wildlife, but I've never been convinced they are insurmountable. If we are not willing to give up our modern way of life en masse, all forms of energy production and all types of research into new tech need to be on the table. I'm a green energy advocate, but I'm a pragmatist, which means I am simply an energy advocate. Better, cleaner, more efficient always, but keep it flowing.

The repugs are actively blocking research into renewables. Meanwhile china will invest 360 billion into renewables by 2020. Guess who the leader in the second half of the 21st century will be? Americas fall from grace will be because of short term thought driven by the dumbest among us.

 

[JSt0rm]

I can't have a dialogue with an appeal to emotion, sorry. I do continue to respect your right to oppose nuclear energy, but it would be nice if those that wish to involve themselves in the discussion would take the time to really learn about the energy problems we face.

how is it emotional to extrapolate the costs of maintaining this crap for 20k years? Seems to me its emotional not to.

 

[norseamd]

To each their own. It's zero emissions. There are problems associated with salmon and other wildlife, but I've never been convinced they are insurmountable. If we are not willing to give up our modern way of life en masse, all forms of energy production and all types of research into new tech need to be on the table. I'm a green energy advocate, but I'm a pragmatist, which means I am simply an energy advocate. Better, cleaner, more efficient always, but keep it flowing.

Its basically a crime against humanity to call it zero emissions, the rotting organic matter that gets flooded in the new reservoirs creates one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions on the planet. Nevermind the massive environmental destruction and even often causing the extinction of locally endemic species.

 

[JSt0rm]

Its basically a crime against humanity to call it zero emissions, the rotting organic matter that gets flooded in the new reservoirs creates one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions on the planet. Nevermind the massive environmental destruction and even often causing the extinction of locally endemic species.

nobody cares about any of that shit because "I gots mines"

 

[JSt0rm]

natural gas is our stepping stone between coal and all renewables. Also if the repugs are going to block all basic science into renewable energy because jerbs they have fucked us and all future generations trying to appeal to hole diggers and metal drillers.

 

[crashtech]

You two have fun. I did enjoy it before it veered off into crazy land.

/unwatch

 

[norseamd]

natural gas is our stepping stone between coal and all renewables. Also if the repugs are going to block all basic science into renewable energy because jerbs they have fucked us and all future generations trying to appeal to hole diggers and metal drillers.

Mixture of natural gas, oil, solar, wind, and 3rd+ and 4th generation fission power plants now, and mixture of solar, wind, tidal, wave, and fusion power plants later. Maybe geothermal as well, but I dont know much about what effects geothermal power has on the local geology.

 

[MrSquished]

Send in Trump to fix it. He already glows orange, what else could go wrong?

 

[JSt0rm]

You two have fun. I did enjoy it before it veered off into crazy land.

/unwatch

Your right. The time scales we are talking about are crazy.

 

[sdifox]

That carrot has been dangled in front of us for many many decades as being mere decades away, as condition that I fear likely to stay that way. Meanwhile, other utopian dreams are advancing at rapid rates, like the artificial leaf to convert water into hydrogen to burn in fuel cells. That one can be installed in the home and power a families needs, or in a village with the same results. No parts will become radioactive and deteriorate requiring multi millions in replacement and storage costs for thousands of years. To produce nuclear waste is a moral crime. Humans evolved to shit up a place and then move. That doesn't work now that we dominate the planet and our shit kills for thousands of years. Time to grow up. With fuel cells we can burn our waste and mix it with cement and fill potholes or build new buildings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Hague_site