Fudzilla: ATI/Nvidia DX11 cards will come in 2009

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Fox5
Scali - How many games used PS1.4? I think Halo did (and look almost identical to the PS2.0 version, but strange that the original xbox was ps1.1 or 1.3 and had the same quality as pc 2.0 almost) and maybe BF2 (good luck playing that on a r8500).

Firstly, what does that have to do with the fact that the 8500 was capable of higher image quality than the GF3/4?
Secondly, there's far more than just Halo and BF2. All Source games also support ps1.4 for example, and Far Cry does... Doom 3 does... so all the major titles and engines at the time. In fact, many games ran the ps1.4 path even on the GeForce FX series, because they were to slow for the ps2.0 path. This meant that ps1.4 continued to be used long after ps2.0 was introduced.

Fact remains that the precision of 8500 was higher than that of GF3/4, regardless of how unimportant all the games using ps1.4 might be in your opinion.

 

[Janooo]

Originally posted by: Scali
...
Now the question is this: Since AMD already has a relatively inefficient achitecture in terms of turning TFLOPS into graphics or GPGPU power, how badly will this hurt when you scale the design up?
There is a chance that even though AMD's new chip might reach 2.16 TFLOPS (which is not THAT dramatic if you look at the 1.36 TFLOPS of the 4890, rather than at the fictional 1.0 TFLOPS)... it may be outperformed by an nVidia chip of 'only' 1.5 TFLOPS, for example.

Nobody knows. They just could have fixed that and made some efficiency improvements.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Janooo
Nobody knows. They just could have fixed that and made some efficiency improvements.

You can't just 'fix' that, because it's inherent to their vec5 processing scheme, which jaredpace was also referring to, earlier in this thread.
If they indeed didn't change from vec5 to something better (which they don't if they base their new chip on the RV770 design), then the efficiency problem will still be there.

 

[wlee15]

Originally posted by: Scali

You can't just 'fix' that, because it's inherent to their vec5 processing scheme, which jaredpace was also referring to, earlier in this thread.
If they indeed didn't change from vec5 to something better (which they don't if they base their new chip on the RV770 design), then the efficiency problem will still be there.

It's not Vec5 it's five-way superscalar, it's as accurate as calling nVidia's architecture as Vec8.

http://74.200.65.90/showpost.p...=1005689&postcount=433

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: wlee15
It's not Vec5 it's five-way superscalar, it's as accurate as calling nVidia's architecture as Vec8.

http://74.200.65.90/showpost.p...=1005689&postcount=433

It's only 5-way superscalar because of the syntactic sugar of a compiler.
In essense you still have the hardware process up to 5 data elements at a time, with a single VLIW instruction. Sounds like vec5 is entirely accurate to me.
If it was TRULY 5-way superscalar like we know it from the CPU world, we wouldn't be having a discussion on why AMD's GPUs are less efficient than nVidia's.

Ofcourse it doesn't help that you are linking to Dave Baumann, one of ATi's spindoctors. Always take what the man says with a large helping of salt, just like for example Richard Huddy. I'd advise to do the same with nVidia spindoctors, but you don't see them going on forums trying to convince everyone that their hardware is the greatest. They don't need it anyway.

 

[Kuzi]

If ATI can have their DirectX11 parts out in October to coincide with Win7 release, then they should have some pretty good sales. Especially if the GT300 is delayed and doesn't get released until Q1 2010.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: Kuzi
If ATI can have their DirectX11 parts out in October to coincide with Win7 release, then they should have some pretty good sales.

Only if they have both performance and price right.
If it's not much faster than a 4870 or 4890, it won't be a good update path for people who already use a high-end card. And if it's not cheaper than a 4870 or 4890 either, then people may want to stick to buying the old cards, because they get better bang for the buck, and DX11 titles aren't out yet anyway.
It's got to be a good balance of all three factors: features, performance and price. Oh, and supply aswell ofcourse.

I recall back in the day that the GeForce2 series remained very popular long after the GeForce3 series was out. GF2 was cheap and performed great. Shaders weren't that important either, in the early days.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Look up what tick tock means when it comes to processor releases 🙂

If they were sticking with tradition, they would release GT300 using 55nm process not 40nm. They are releasing a new architecture on a new process technology which does not follow intel's Tick-Tock model. This is probably because nVIDIA learned the hard way that sometimes sticking with the true and tried process can be bad, especially when your GPU ends up at 576mm^2. It would've been much better if GT200 was initially 55nm had they taken the "risk" (although this process technology was adopted by ATi for quite some time).

 

[Kuzi]

Originally posted by: Scali
Only if they have both performance and price right.
If it's not much faster than a 4870 or 4890, it won't be a good update path for people who already use a high-end card.

I would be very surprised if the RV870 wasn't at least 40-50% faster than the current generation ATI (single GPU) cards.

 

[Tempered81]

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,9524.html

RV870 ready for launch when Windows 7 is
Written by Andreas G 24 June 2009 19:27


Microsoft will launch the market's first DirectX 11 compatible operating on October 22, and release a DX11 update for Windows Vista. Since AMD showed the first functioning DirectX 11 graphics circuits at Computex at the start of the month we have had a certain feeling that AMD is aiming to synchronize its DX11 launch with Microsoft's new operating system. Second tier sources confirms that that the first DX11 chip, RV870, will be ready for when Windows 7 launches.
It's far from impossible that AMD will speed up the launch of the card and other claim that AMD will supply game developers with DirectX 11 hardware for optimizing its games for AMD hardware.
AMD's Rick Bergman recently claimed that DX11 will be one of the most awesome happenings on the graphics card market in many years and even if Bergman is hardly impartial it certainly looks promising for us consumers.

RV870 will be vastly faster to market than NVIDIA's next generation graphics circuits if everything goes as planned. Why that is most likely because AMD has stuck to its plan of bringing the best performance per buck hardware to market, and not the most extreme, while NVIDIA is going for the raw power title again with GT300.
Alas, things are not going that well for NVIDIA. BSN reports yields in the 20-30% range for GT300, which matches what we've been hearing. This is the chip that keeps the rumors of leakage problems at TSMC alive.

 

[RaptureMe]

All these hardware upgrade are going way to fast for me and its getting way outta hand now.
I was going to get me a nice shiney 4890 but screw it now.
guess i will just wait for what ever they call the next dx11 cards.
I thought though they were putting an end to all these cards and cards that and decided to go with gpu on a die with cpu's
Isnt that what the 32nm cpu's where going to be cpu+gpu multicore??

 

[Kakkoii]

Originally posted by: RaptureMe
All these hardware upgrade are going way to fast for me and its getting way outta hand now.
I was going to get me a nice shiney 4890 but screw it now.
guess i will just wait for what ever they call the next dx11 cards.
I thought though they were putting an end to all these cards and cards that and decided to go with gpu on a die with cpu's
Isnt that what the 32nm cpu's where going to be cpu+gpu multicore??

Intel is slowly transitioning to that.

 

[gigahertz20]

Originally posted by: RaptureMe
All these hardware upgrade are going way to fast for me and its getting way outta hand now.
I was going to get me a nice shiney 4890 but screw it now.
guess i will just wait for what ever they call the next dx11 cards.
I thought though they were putting an end to all these cards and cards that and decided to go with gpu on a die with cpu's
Isnt that what the 32nm cpu's where going to be cpu+gpu multicore??

New video cards won't be out for awhile, if your not able to play the games you want with your 8800GT, then I would hock it on e-Bay and buy a 4890 which can be found around $150 or so on special deals...one was posted in the hot deals forum earlier that was like $130 after rebates and everything.

Plus, when the new video cards come out in Q3/Q4 they of course will demand a price premium, better to wait awhile for prices to settle down. I would buy a 4890, keep it until next year, then see what is on the market.

 

[Scali]

Originally posted by: RaptureMe
I thought though they were putting an end to all these cards and cards that and decided to go with gpu on a die with cpu's
Isnt that what the 32nm cpu's where going to be cpu+gpu multicore??

Intel's upcoming Core i5 series will have dualcore CPUs with integrated GPUs (codename Havendale).
Don't expect too much though. For the first few generations, both Intel and AMD's CPU/GPU combinations will not be much more than an IGP moved from the chipset onto the CPU package (in Intel's case it's actually a separate die).
So it's not going to be a decent solution for gaming. I think it will be quite a while before discrete cards will be replaced by an integrated chip.

 

[ExcaliburMM]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Scali
Hum, it would be a shame if the RV870 is indeed just an RV770 pimped up to DX11 spec. That seems to imply that there will not be a considerable performance leap in general, not much beyond what you'd expect from a regular die-shrink anyway.

They will get destroyed in the next round if the rumors are true. They already took a bad enough beating this round, I'm not sure if they could afford such a catastrophe.

I was hoping for something new and another round of competition.

I'm sorry but after hearing about how many long time greens went red this generation, including myself, I don't see that as a beating.

 

[Atechie]

Originally posted by: ExcaliburMM

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Scali
Hum, it would be a shame if the RV870 is indeed just an RV770 pimped up to DX11 spec. That seems to imply that there will not be a considerable performance leap in general, not much beyond what you'd expect from a regular die-shrink anyway.

They will get destroyed in the next round if the rumors are true. They already took a bad enough beating this round, I'm not sure if they could afford such a catastrophe.

I was hoping for something new and another round of competition.

I'm sorry but after hearing about how many long time greens went red this generation, including myself, I don't see that as a beating.

Your personal view/opinion is irrelevant.

NVIDIA has a ~66% marketshare, AMD around ~33%...those are the figures...deal with it.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
It's far from impossible that AMD will speed up the launch of the card and other claim that AMD will supply game developers with DirectX 11 hardware for optimizing its games for AMD hardware.

What I like from the ATi optimization program is that they make to run the games faster on ATi hardware, not exclusively like the nVidia's TWIMTBP which optimizations are made to run exclusively on nVidia hardware stalling the ATi's performance like in Cryostasis or Deadspace. DemiGod is a good example of good optimization practice which is optimized to run faster on ATi hardware but runs outstandingly great on nVidia hardware too.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...te=y&parentid=31252035

Developer Relations

Once again, we feel compelled to talk about developer relations with AMD and NVIDIA. In this case, however, the situation is reversed from our last evaluation of Cryostasis. In the short collection of splash screens in Demigod?s startup routine is a great big AMD logo, stating "The future is fusion." So, it seems that AMD was on top of this release for once.

On the first page of this article, we asked the question: Will NVIDIA video cards suffer for AMD?s involvement in Demigod?s development. No, they do not suffer. AMD?s video cards do outperform NVIDIA?s offerings consistently in Demigod, but it is nowhere near as one-sided as we saw in Cryostasis. This is a part of AMD that is not flexed enough. If Demigod is any indicator, it appears that GPU manufacturers can actually work with game developers to make their games actually run better, not just more exclusive.

Originally posted by: Atechie
Your personal view/opinion is irrelevant.

NVIDIA has a ~66% marketshare, AMD around ~33%...those are the figures...deal with it.

You seems to forget that most of the 66% market share comes from the old 8600GS/9600 and 8800/9800 parts. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ << While it doesn't paint the whole story, it's pretty accurate. After the nVidia's very sucessful 8800 series and the sucessful to OEM's 8600 series, the card with the highest share following is the HD 4800 series with a share of 9.83% against the measly GTX share of 3.27%. And nVidia doesn't have the 66% or market share, is 65%. So deal with it.

 

[scooterlibby]

Originally posted by: Atechie

Originally posted by: ExcaliburMM

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Scali
Hum, it would be a shame if the RV870 is indeed just an RV770 pimped up to DX11 spec. That seems to imply that there will not be a considerable performance leap in general, not much beyond what you'd expect from a regular die-shrink anyway.

They will get destroyed in the next round if the rumors are true. They already took a bad enough beating this round, I'm not sure if they could afford such a catastrophe.

I was hoping for something new and another round of competition.

I'm sorry but after hearing about how many long time greens went red this generation, including myself, I don't see that as a beating.

Your personal view/opinion is irrelevant.

NVIDIA has a ~66% marketshare, AMD around ~33%...those are the figures...deal with it.

Time to retake micro. Market share is not the only metric for success. For example, the ? in market share following major architectural launches might be more informative. Depends on your level of analysis I guess.