[fud] AMD Radeon 7770/7750 coming in February on 28nm process - specs/prices

Grooveriding

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http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/25363-radeon-hd-7770-brings-28nm-for-$149


...The Radeon HD 7770 is based on the Cape Verde XT chip and it should end up clocked at 900MHz. It has 896 stream processors as well as 56 texture units and 16 ROPs. The memory is clocked at 1375MHz (5.5GHz GDDR5 effective).

Since the card is trimmed to a 128-bit memory interface, its memory bandwidth is 88GB/s and it comes with 1GB memory. It should start selling at some point in February for $149.

The runner up is HD 7750 based on Cape Verde PRO, works at 900MHz has 832shaders, 52 TMUs and 16 ROPs. The memory works at 5.0GHz bringing the total possible bandwidth to 80 GB/s for its 1GB of memory. This one will sell for $10 less, or $139....
The recycling of 5770 is over with 7770, 28nm and a new architecture.

7770 3DMark 11 Performance

http://translate.google.ca/translat...0-1-1.html&hl=en&biw=1747&bih=1217&prmd=imvns

OS1rj.jpg
 
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GaiaHunter

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Hmm.

Looks like to be in between 5770 and 6850 speed. Or you reckon it might match a 6850?
 

Arkadrel

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@GaiaHunter

6870 = 1120 shaders / 56 texture units / 32 RoPs / 134 GB/s memory bw.
7770 = 896 shaders / 56 texture units / 16 RoPs / 88 GB/s memory bw.

the text units = wash / slight edge to 7770
the RoPs units = wash (they improved alot with new CGN arch)
the texture units = ~wash (because GCN > VLIW4, no waste with GCN)
the memory bandwidth = 6870 > 7770 by alot.

I think the 7770 cards will be memory starved, and will see good results from overclocking their memory speeds :)

Assumeing VLIW wastes like ~20% shaders because of VLIW4,....
the 7770 could be pretty close in performance.


If we assume the 7770 overclocks like the 7970 does,
this card will walk all over the 6870's once you overclock them.


I might be exagerating abit here, but I could see the 7770 catching the 6870's.
The question is if its possible with a 128bit bus, to do so? Lets hope those ram on the 7770's can OC like mad.
 
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notty22

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It's a baby step over the 5770. But figure on 20% o/c headroom on those 900mhz clocks and it then could perform that much better.
 

RussianSensation

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6870 = 1120 shaders / 56 texture units / 32 RoPs / 134 GB/s memory bw.
7770 = 896 shaders / 56 texture units / 16 RoPs / 88 GB/s memory bw.

Assumeing VLIW wastes like ~20% shaders because of VLIW4,....
the 7770 could be pretty close in performance.

That doesn't make any sense. HD7970 is 925 x 2048 vs. HD6970 with 880 x 1536 = 40%

The performance increase is commensurate with shading peformance increase. You can't just magically penalize HD6870's 1120 shaders by 20% vs. HD7770. The level of utilization of VLIW-4 architecture depends on the coding of the application. Your comparison also completely ignores that a videocard's performance is affected by 5 key parameters (GPU clocks, SPs, ROPs, TMUs and memory bandwidth). GPU clocks are the same, so we can leave that one out.

HD7970 also brought 50% more memory bandwidth, 40% more TMU performance and >50% ROP performance (because 32 ROPs in Tahiti XT are 50% faster than Cayman's and clock speed went up 5%). Strangely, you are completely discounting HD6870's ROP and memory bandwidth advantage over HD7770 and focusing entirely on the SPs. You are also ignoring that HD7770 has no tangible texture performance advantage.

If we assume the 7770 overclocks like the 7970 does,
this card will walk all over the 6870's once you overclock them.

Unlikely. The card which has a strong shot at making HD6870 obsolete is the HD7790, but it has an MSRP of $199, while HD6870s currently sell for $140.

HD7770 is going to be lucky enough to beat an HD6850. Considering it will have an MSRP of $149 and come out more than a year later, that's pretty disappointing. Technically speaking based on launch MSRPs, the closest replacement for HD6870 is HD7850 ($239 vs. $249 MSRP). In that regard, the 7850 is going to be a better card. Of course HD6870 doesn't sell at $239 today though. It's reasonable to estimate that by the time HD7850 actually launches, it'll be competing with GTX570s/ HD6950 2GBs.

It actually looks like the move to 28-nm may not bring much of a performance improvement in the entire part of the Radeon lineup below $359. Even HD7870 looks barely as good as the HD6970 for $299, but of course you can get an HD6950 for $240 today and unlock it to 6970 speeds.

This is a repeat of HD5750/5770 and HD6850/6870 launches. The MSRP prices made all of those cards far less attractive than the cheaper and equally or faster performaning previous generation cards (HD4870/4890/GTX260 216 and HD5850/5870, etc.). Over time, all those MSRP prices actually fell to reasonable levels where those cards became worth buying. We've seen NV do the same thing with their ridiculous pricing for GTX550 Ti.

I would always wait for MSRP for low-end and mid-range cards to drop because lately AMD and NV have been way too amitious with MSRPs at this level of cards. It's one thing to charge higher premium for HD7970 since well it's the fastest single-GPU. But to bring out an entirely new line-up of 28nm cards at prices that make your previous line-up look as good seems underwhelming at the moment.

The recycling of 5770 is over with 7770, 28nm and a new architecture.

Finally. By the time HD7770 actually launches at $149, it will go head on against HD6870 and GTX560, not against HD5770/6770. So will this new card actually elevate the performance level at the real world ~ $150 price level?
 
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Vesku

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New gen of GPU will come in at intro MSRPs then the old gen sells at the "long in the tooth" value pricing until it's all gone. It's the life cycle of the GPU.

Glad to see AMD won't be rebranding at the $100-150 level.

Throwing in on the 7770 not making it past the 6850 hurdle, with that 128bit bus.
 

VulgarDisplay

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Apr 3, 2009
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I do think that AMD is justified in pricing the 7970 at $549 based on GPU prices right now, but I'm very underwhelmed by the specs and prices of their lower tier cards. It's up to nvidia to adjust the prices to where we consumers would like them to be.
 

Grooveriding

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I think the main thing that needs to be done is this card has to be significantly faster than a 5770/6770.

The 5770 is the #1 selling DX11 card from either vendor still to this day. There are loads of gamers who won't spend much cash on a video card who will be the buyers of a 7770.
 

RussianSensation

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The 5770 is the #1 selling DX11 card from either vendor still to this day. There are loads of gamers who won't spend much cash on a video card who will be the buyers of a 7770.

But why would anyone buy the 7770 when you can buy the HD6850/6870 for $120-150? The only way AMD is going to get people to buy the 7770 is if they discontinue the 6850/6870 cards or if the gamer thinks the higher # 7770 automatically means the card is better. Of course that's what they'll probably do because they'll be able to sell a smaller die chip at the same price with less complex PCB. Win-win for AMD and gamers get no more performance at $149. Keep in mind, we already had a mad overclocking, amazing value card that gamers could have purchased for $150. It was called the GTX460. So what exactly does 7770 bring to the table over the 6850/6870/GTX460? Lower power consumption and worse performance at the same price?
 
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tviceman

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Finally. By the time HD7770 actually launches at $149, it will go head on against HD6870 and GTX560, not against HD5770/6770. So will this new card actually elevate the performance level at the real world ~ $150 price level?

With it's specs, it will need some voodoo magic to match the hd6850. I think it will be about 10% slower. :( 28nm prices so far are not boding well for consumers.
 

SirPauly

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Apr 28, 2009
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I agree, that there may be more HD 5770's sold based on Steam data, but don't agree that the HD 5770 is the #1 selling DirectX 11 product today.
 

skipsneeky2

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Perhaps the 7700 is gonna be for the htpc user.

We all know the 7970 is pretty impressive for how much power it uses so perhaps the 7750 and 7700 will be htpc parts or lower tdp gaming chips?

Still doesn't give it justice but some people might find a card outperforming a 5770 while consuming around 75-85watt tdp quite amazing versus the 108tdp the 5770 has and might cough up the cash.
 

Grooveriding

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But why would anyone buy the 7770 when you can buy the HD6850/6870 for $120-150? The only way AMD is going to get people to buy the 7770 is if they discontinue the 6850/6870 cards or if the gamer thinks the higher # 7770 automatically means the card is better. Of course that's what they'll probably do because they'll be able to sell a smaller die chip at the same price with less complex PCB. Win-win for AMD and gamers get no more performance at $149. Keep in mind, we already had a mad overclocking, amazing value card that gamers could have purchased for $150. It was called the GTX460. So what exactly does 7770 bring to the table over the 6850/6870/GTX460? Lower power consumption and worse performance at the same price?

That argument is always available to anyone informed. The same can be said of why a 560SE instead of a 460, why a 570 instead of a $200 480, why a 6850 instead of a 5850 etc. Counter to it, eventually the 6850/6870 will dry up depending on how many are left kicking around, leaving a vacuum for this price point needing filling.

Those arguments don't pan out for Joe casual gamer who just wants a card that will let his game run, as in start up and not be a slideshow, regardless of settings. These are the gamers who probably only play WoW and nothing else or have a casual CoD habit.

Same group that have made the 5770 the #1 DX11 card will be the ones buying this thing. :cool: Have you been to a Future Shop lately ? They still have 5770s and LOADS of 6770s on the shelves.
 
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GaiaHunter

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I do think that AMD is justified in pricing the 7970 at $549 based on GPU prices right now, but I'm very underwhelmed by the specs and prices of their lower tier cards. It's up to nvidia to adjust the prices to where we consumers would like them to be.

I guess is more of the same - make the new gen cards less attractive vs old gen to sell old gen first and get a premium for new tech. Once old gen dries and/or competition arrives, there is room and incentive to lower prices.

The downside is if NVIDIA releases and prices go down NVIDIA will get some mind share as savior of the wallet, just like AMD did with the unexpected performance of the 4850/4870.
 
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Vesku

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Isn't it a given that they will phase out the 40nm cards? When the 6850 and 6870 showed up their initial MSRP didn't make them a compelling choice over the 5830/5850. There are some great deals to be had on the 6800s atm, I picked up a 6850 from NCIX for $120 before $20 MIR. The deals forum has a 6870 at $140ish before rebate. Heck there was even a Newegg deal on a 560 vanilla that sold out in hours.

I guess it's nice to mention this so that people new to picking a GPU are informed. If you need a mid-tier video card now would be a good time to shop.

But why would anyone buy the 7770 when you can buy the HD6850/6870 for $120-150? The only way AMD is going to get people to buy the 7770 is if they discontinue the 6850/6870 cards or if the gamer thinks the higher # 7770 automatically means the card is better. Of course that's what they'll probably do because they'll be able to sell a smaller die chip at the same price with less complex PCB. Win-win for AMD and gamers get no more performance at $149. Keep in mind, we already had a mad overclocking, amazing value card that gamers could have purchased for $150. It was called the GTX460. So what exactly does 7770 bring to the table over the 6850/6870/GTX460? Lower power consumption and worse performance at the same price?
 

SirPauly

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WoW can be still be a substantial hit depending on settings, enhancements, features and amount of action on the screen.
 

AtenRa

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I have said this before, 78xx and 77xx series with the above specs and prices are a joke :thumbsdown:
 

JAG87

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Ha mark my words, it will turn out either wonderful or terrible for the consumer when Kepler comes out. And remembering NV's pricing history, it doesn't look rosy. One thing is certain, right now you get better value from AMD with their last gen cards, which is a shame.

Two 6870s at MSRP >> 7970 at MSRP
Something's wrong with that.
 
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Grooveriding

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Ha mark my words, it will turn out either wonderful or terrible for the consumer when Kepler comes out. And remembering NV's pricing history, it doesn't look rosy. One thing is certain, right now you get better value from AMD with their last gen cards, which is a shame.

I agree with this. When the 680 launches in May or June next year, expect a nice wallet rape to the tune of $600+. They don't play price war, they play squeeze you for every cent they can.

Unless the 8790 or whatever the refresh of the 7970 is going to be called is ready to release at the same time, they'll be raping everyone hard for their 20% performance advantage.
 

SirPauly

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That's one of my nit-picks considering the performance/value isn't significant and the 7970, to me, is attaching a premium already on a year old premium priced GTX 580 -- and then nVidia attaches another premium to this based on it may offer 30 percent more performance to 650 dollars.

But what I don't understand is the lack of consistency:

For AMD

Grooveriding said:
Secondly my point stands that cards in this price bracket are for buyers who are not looking for the best bang for their buck. ....In short, best card on the market has a big price tag on it, what a surprise

For nVidia:

When the 680 launches in May or June next year, expect a nice wallet rape to the tune of $600+.
 

Vesku

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I agree with this. When the 680 launches in May or June next year, expect a nice wallet rape to the tune of $600+. They don't play price war, they play squeeze you for every cent they can.

Unless the 8790 or whatever the refresh of the 7970 is going to be called is ready to release at the same time, they'll be raping everyone hard for their 20% performance advantage.

Can't wait for yet another wave of "where's the value" posts regarding the current fastest GPU (780), oh joy.
 

bryanW1995

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RussianSensation said:
I would always wait for MSRP for low-end and mid-range cards to drop because lately AMD and NV have been way too amitious with MSRPs at this level of cards. It's one thing to charge higher premium for HD7970 since well it's the fastest single-GPU. But to bring out an entirely new line-up of 28nm cards at prices that make your previous line-up look as good seems underwhelming at the moment.

This really started with the 5770. Remember how it was allegedly going to be faster/better than 4870/gtx 260? And AMD got away with premium pricing on it for a long time, though at least back then you could pump up the 5770 by talking about its DX11 features.

The 7770 looks to be weaker in just about every area when compared against 6870. BTW, at least judging by the 7970 launch reviews, the GCN sp's aren't any better than the VLIW4 sp's.

But why would anyone buy the 7770 when you can buy the HD6850/6870 for $120-150? The only way AMD is going to get people to buy the 7770 is if they discontinue the 6850/6870 cards or if the gamer thinks the higher # 7770 automatically means the card is better. Of course that's what they'll probably do because they'll be able to sell a smaller die chip at the same price with less complex PCB. Win-win for AMD and gamers get no more performance at $149. Keep in mind, we already had a mad overclocking, amazing value card that gamers could have purchased for $150. It was called the GTX460. So what exactly does 7770 bring to the table over the 6850/6870/GTX460? Lower power consumption and worse performance at the same price?

QFT
 
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Grooveriding

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That's one of my nit-picks considering the performance/value isn't significant and the 7970, to me, is attaching a premium already on a year old premium priced GTX 580 -- and then nVidia attaches another premium to this based on it may offer 30 percent more performance to 650 dollars.

But what I don't understand is the lack of consistency:

For AMD



For nVidia:

Well that's the difference between you and I, I expect and can see why they will both price the best video card on the market, if they have it, at a premium price.

You just whine so long as it is anything AMD. I left that comment out there though because I knew you were here trolling another AMD thread, so I thought I would toss it out and let you walk in to it for me. Thanks. :cool: