Frustrated, now can't even get into bios MSI crap

[jfelano]

I have been frustrated with my system since I upgraded it. I wish I just had my i3-2100 set up back to be honest, it seemed faster and ran much cooler.

I upgraded to a i5-4670K and a MSI Z87-G45. I am not a MSI fan but it was a combo with $100 off. Day one I upgraded the bios because MSI Live update recommended it. Then I was never able to get into the bios and do anything. If I choose save and exit, the bios screen locks up and I have to reset the computer. Even if I don't make any changes, it won't allow me to choose save and exit. I've even tried resetting the bios a couple times, still freezed when you choose save and exit. Fine, no big deal, I don't want to overclock it anyways.

So I've just lived without it. Recently I'll have random issues. I can play BF3 for an hour and then all the sudden it will start skipping and then goes to desktop and becomes unresponsive. After restarting the computer works nomally again. It happened today while I was downloading 8 simultaneous WMP files. Started getting real slow, then the mouse became unresponsive and had to restart the computer. When this happens if I hit control/alt/delete, it won't even come up except maybe in 5 minutes if I wait that long but then clicking on anything in it is unresponsive.

It seems to take forever to boot and become responsive lately. It seems until after Kaspersky completely loads the computer doesn't want to do anything, very slow. This takes about a full 5 minutes after I click "desktop" (win8) on the start screen, after the log in screen. But after that it seems fine. It wasn't this slow before.

I recently tried to go into bios and check memory settings to see if maybe the changed or something, grabbing at straws here. Now I can't get into bios at all. If I press or hold DEL or F11 it still boots to Windows. I tried like 10 times. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong, never had a problem before. Any ideas?

So anyways, about the other issue, I've run checkdisk, defragged my hardrive, ran windows memory diagnostics, everthing comes up good.

CPU temps even after 1hr of BF3 are around 65c during the hottest part of this summer (FL) Video card never goes over 65c.

I ran Intel Burn Test and by the time it started the second pass cpu temps were bumping 90c so I stopped the test. I have a stock Intel fan.

So I have ordered a new Zalman fan but I know that's not the issue cause cpu temps don't go above 65c even during BF3.

i5-4670K (no overclocking, stock fan)
MSI Z87-G45
4GBx2 DDR3-1333 1.5v
HD5850
Antec 620w NEO

 

[jfelano]

I think the mobo is the issue, had problems with it since day 1. I'm thinking of dumping it and getting something else but I wan't to see if anyone has any ideas.

 

[jfelano]

Update

I flashed the bios again, to an even newer version. Now I am not having ANY of the issues I was having with the previous bios, so I'm very happy about that.

Just need to find out the reason for the "crap outs" under stress now, or maybe the bad bios was it, I don't know. To be continued.

I was even able to use the OC Genie and clock it at 4ghz, but since it turbos to 3.8 already I really don't see the point of using the overclock.

 

[Torn Mind]

The funny thing is that MSI forum has a sticky that tells its users to NOT upgrade the board BIOS with its Liveupdate tool and that sticky has been there for 5 years.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=119375.0

These days, when it comes to BIOS upgrades, if you don't have a problem right now, don't flash a new BIOS.

I dunno, but MSI needs to debug their software or something.

 

[Gillbot]

I just had to RMA a board because msi advised a BIOS update and it bricked the board. I was having similar issues with unable to access the bios, random lockups and such. MSI support advised an update and I guess by updating, that broke it good enough for them to replace it. :thumbsup:

 

[ratjacket]

Updating BIOS from windows is never recomended as it is more likley to crap out than doing it via disk or usb

especially if theres an unknown fault like bad ram etc

never do it with an oc (incase you arnt actually that stable)

I use to use MSI in my K8N-Neo2 Plat days and used live update for bios without a problem, but plenty of people would have problems and they didnt recomned doing it from windows back then

 

[Gillbot]

Personally, I use the flash tool built into the BIOS itself.

 

[jfelano]

I've been building my own pc's since 1997 and NEVER updated a bios EVER. I only did this one because Live Update said I should, so I was like why not.

Anyways, the new bios fixed the problem.

Anybody have any input on the other problems I'm having?

I'm really disappointed with these new cpu's. They are only 84w but they run hot. Too hot for the fan they give you, and I'm not even using the integrated gpu, can't imagine how hot it would get if that was being used.

 

[jfelano]

I've not had any problems since re-flashing the bios. I guess I"m lucky cause I used Live update and flashed through Windows BOTH times.

I knew there was a reason I didn't like MSI to begin with. Why would you offer M-flash and Live Update 5 if you know it bricks boards??? Almost hard to believe. I'm glad I do not work in their RMA dept.

 

[jfelano]

Ok so I played BF3 for about 45 minutes today and it did it. Started getting jerkey, then freezing, then just froze up. Even after getting the game shut down, the computer acts slow and dumb, so I have to just end up restarting it.

With my new cooler Hardware Monitor recorded a max cpu temp of 52c and Video card temp of 51c.

I never had this problem with the i3 and H61. All I replaced was the power supply, motherboard and cpu, everything else is the same. The i3 was really snappy and ate up BF3, this i5 seems sluggish and the computer seems slow.

 

[jfelano]

No suggestions? Do you think this is a bios or motherboard problem?

 

[schmuckley]

I think the mobo is the issue, had problems with it since day 1. I'm thinking of dumping it and getting something else but I wan't to see if anyone has any ideas.

It's probably the cheezy MSI VRMs throttling.


Dump it and get this board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138381

aim a fan towards the VRM sinks.

Say bye-bye to frustrations.

(unless your hdd is failing)

I don't think Zalman makes a good CPU cooler for Haswell;I could be wrong though.

This cooler is supposed to be good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...max-_-35214023

 

[TheGoat Eater]

The consensus has always been to flash bios from DOS or Bios - as there are to many issues that can come up with windows flashing. This has gone for GPU flashing as well, it may take extra effort but it is worth it. I would call MSI and try to get it resolved or get an RMA. As for the excessive heat on the CPU, you may want to look at taking a look at your cooling setup as something is likely off or not up to snuff. I would also think that you know that the burn in test is meant to "make it bun" or fail. If you are not using this as a cruncher 24/7 there is no real use for that type of testing, other than to break stuff. There are much easier ways to test for stability that are not as much of a time suck. I would also first check your RAM with Memtest 86+ ( http://www.memtest.org/ ) and give it a good run to see if anything comes up. I have a feeling you might see something. One should never have to update BIOS unless there is something causing problems with the system directly related to a BIOS issue.

 

[jfelano]

Goat, like I said the bios is fine now, were past that.

Also, since 1997 this is the first time I"ve flashed the bios on a computer I built.

Obviously 52c is a good max temp after 1 hour of BF3, so I'm not worried there.

The new cooler is silent and works great, even though I installed it facing the wrong way, yeah long story. When I was installing it on the motherboard I got the rear of the case mixed up with the top of the case cause they both have the same size exhaust fan, so now it's facing up and blowing up out the top exhaust fan as opposed to facing and blowing towards the rear exhaust fan.


I have run memtest, no errors.

 

[TheGoat Eater]

For the operating temp - that is within spec so it should be ok. You could manually under volt if you want. the latest generations of Intel CPUs are notorious for having terrible internal TIM, making them hotter than they should. This is why you see a lot of people de-lidding CPUs . As for the fan blowing out the top - that is actually the way I put mine when I have a cased rig. Was this a fresh install of Windows? I have had stuff like this before and then resorted to putting on a fresh install. Did you happen to look at paging file errors when you checked the HDD?

 

[jfelano]

For the operating temp - that is within spec so it should be ok. You could manually under volt if you want. the latest generations of Intel CPUs are notorious for having terrible internal TIM, making them hotter than they should. This is why you see a lot of people de-lidding CPUs . As for the fan blowing out the top - that is actually the way I put mine when I have a cased rig. Was this a fresh install of Windows? I have had stuff like this before and then resorted to putting on a fresh install. Did you happen to look at paging file errors when you checked the HDD?

No I did not re-install Windows when I replaced the mobo/cpu, I should have but didn't have any issues.

Happened again playing BF3 yesterday. Eventually after a few minutes it unfreezes itself, but it acts stupid and slow and unuseable until you reboot. Even hitting control/alt/delete it doesn't respond, it's like it doesn't know what to do. Once you reboot it works normally again. I think a fresh install of Windows is my best option.

 

[Kenmitch]

No I did not re-install Windows when I replaced the mobo/cpu, I should have but didn't have any issues.

Happened again playing BF3 yesterday. Eventually after a few minutes it unfreezes itself, but it acts stupid and slow and unuseable until you reboot. Even hitting control/alt/delete it doesn't respond, it's like it doesn't know what to do. Once you reboot it works normally again. I think a fresh install of Windows is my best option.

When I upgrade cpu/mb combo I'll boot with my current windows install to play around for a while....I fear I loose performance so I reinstall windows in the end every time.

You should at least clean out the old devices in device manager.

You can google for show non-present devices to get instructions on how to see what's not there. Of course you'd have to use some caution when deleting the devices.

 

[jfelano]

So I ran 10 passes of Intel Burn Test successfully. With the new cooler my hottest core recoreded 71c. That's a HUGE improvement over the stock cooler which was hitting 90c+ right away and I was unable to finish the test. Of course I have to take into consideration it's 7f cooler in my house right now than it was then.

Played BF3 yesterday extensively with no crashes. Still not sure what might be the problem.

 

[Morbus]

Gosh, I was about to get one of these but luckily my local supplier didn't have it on stock, so I with Asus instead. I keep reading about nightmares with MSI mobos.

Though I was using an old MSI P35 for 4 years + and never had a problem

 

[denis280]

shiit-ake Happen.

 

[jfelano]

Played BF3 all day yesterday with no issues. Not sure what to think at this point but everything seems to be working good enough.

 

[Jacky60]

I've been building my PC's since 1998 and I've never updated the bios on any of them that I can remember. I'm pretty sure its best not to unless you have issues with the board but some people seem to do it regularly. I guess it's habit forming.

 

[Soundmanred]

For bf3 ill give u 2 advises.

1)Turn off overclock.if u use overclock genie, that could be the issue. My bf3 was unstable when overclock genie was turned ON.I use 4770K,mpower max,32gb ram .As soon i turned OFF overclock , bf3 worked like it should. Didnt try to bypass this issue, so i dont know how can u set overclock to work with BF3.

2)I had alot of problems with bf3 , i couldnt play it, i dont remember exactly what was the issue, but i bookmarked the solution for next time :
https://forums.geforce.com/default/...r-stackhash_0a9e-errors-and-possibly-others-/

best regards.

Did you even read the whole post?
It's not a BF3 problem.