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From the Are You Serious Files... 9 Year Old Kills Mother

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/michigan/2019/05/08/prosecutor-year-old-suspected-michigan-womans-slaying/39460175/

Records: 9-year-old boy charged in mother’s shooting death
Fawn River Township, Mich. – A 9-year-old boy has been charged with murder in the fatal shooting of his mother in their southern Michigan home, according to court documents.
The woman was found early Monday morning in Fawn River Township, St. Joseph County Prosecutor John McDonough told WWMT-TV. Fawn River Township is about 160 miles (260 kilometers) west-southwest of Detroit.
WOOD-TV first reported the charges.

The boy also is charged with using a firearm during the commission of a felony. Documents filed Tuesday in St. Joseph County Circuit Court show the woman was shot with a rifle.
The Associated Press is not identifying the victim because to do so would identify the juvenile suspect. As of Tuesday, the boy was undergoing a psychiatric evaluation at a state-run juvenile facility, according to county Sheriff Bradley Balk.

It isn’t clear if he was charged as an adult or a juvenile. Authorities have not released the circumstances of the killing or details of why the child was charged.



Details are few and far in between at this point. I know people have guns in their homes north of the border... does this shit happen up there or is it just something with Americans...
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
6,275
1,870
136
Oh man.

I hate to say but a lot of people underestimate how violent kids can be. Especially if something triggers them.

It used to constant verbal or physical abuse or bullying but nowadays take their ipad or phone away and you could be in for some repercussions.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
6,388
354
126
At least she felt safe up until that point.


:rolleyes:


Too bad she didn’t lock up the rifle (assuming it was hers) realizing that her adopted son had mental health problems and she was having him evaluated.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,101
11,713
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It's alleged:

"McDonough nor Balk would corroborate details about the juvenile, but Pieronski said the same boy threatened to kill her 8-year-old daughter in February 2018.

"He told her that he wanted to get a knife and stab her and watch her die, and watch her mother cry," Pieronski said.

Pieronski said she warned the principal about what happened.

"My want was to remove him from the school and protect the children. I do feel in my whole heart the teachers and principals did everything they could do," she said."

https://wwmt.com/news/local/deputies-investigate-juvenile-in-connection-to-homicide-at-a-home-near-sturgis

If true, yeah, this kid has serious mental issues.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,999
13,985
136
who would have thought that a gun owner would have been injured/killed by their own weapon with a far greater chance than with any other weapon?

oh wait...anyone that's literate.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,029
474
126
who would have thought that a gun owner would have been injured/killed by their own weapon with a far greater chance than with any other weapon?

oh wait...anyone that's literate.
Hey look another mental health case that wasn't addressed and ended in a death. Maybe you missed the part where the kid wanted to kill an 8 year old girl with a knife so he could watch her mother cry. This kid sounds like a sociopath.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,999
13,985
136
Hey look another mental health case that wasn't addressed and ended in a death. Maybe you missed the part where the kid wanted to kill an 8 year old girl with a knife so he could watch her mother cry. This kid sounds like a sociopath.
agree. he does sound like a sociopath.

he also had easy and unfettered access to a far more effective murder tool which, with such an unstable murdery person in the house, should have never been allowed in the first place.

but freedumb!
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,029
474
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agree. he does sound like a sociopath.

he also had easy and unfettered access to a far more effective murder tool which, with such an unstable murdery person in the house, should have never been allowed in the first place.

but freedumb!
That is right. She had a sociopath in her house and let him have access to a gun. Freedom comes with consequences.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,999
13,985
136
That is right. She had a sociopath in her house and let him have access to a gun. Freedom comes with consequences.
and now she's dead. Another dram of blood to water the tree of Freedumb. All hail the patriotic martyr.
 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,662
1,768
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Hey look another mental health case that wasn't addressed and ended in a death. Maybe you missed the part where the kid wanted to kill an 8 year old girl with a knife so he could watch her mother cry. This kid sounds like a sociopath.
Conservatives: "It's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue."
Everyone: "Great, let's spend money to make sure everyone has access to mental health care."
Conservatives: "Lol no."
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,075
244
116
That is right. She had a sociopath in her house and let him have access to a gun. Freedom comes with consequences.
The stat quoters in these threads always seem to ignore these behavioral issues that even the studies they're quoting say play a role, Mental health issues, drugs, alcohol, etc.

It's also very interesting to note they never use actual numbers. It's always "greater" or "increased", never your odds are x and if you have a gun in the house it increases to y. For example the odds of dying by accidental gunshot are ~ 1 in 8350 and those odds increase 2.5x by having a gun in the house, it's still really long odds. The gun grabbers wont characterize it that way because they're trying to make you as scared as they are of guns. It's a really transparent strategy.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
6,452
1,458
136
Hey look another mental health case that wasn't addressed and ended in a death. Maybe you missed the part where the kid wanted to kill an 8 year old girl with a knife so he could watch her mother cry. This kid sounds like a sociopath.
As a mental health professional I'd really like to hear how you think we can fix this kind of problem.

I feel pretty strongly that gun control would be far more effective and that the hope of addressing sociopathy in society rests in prevention.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
43,780
2,936
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Clearly, the only antidote to a bad 9 year old with a gun is a good 9 year old with a gun.

The Trumpian three word chant for this is "Arm More Kids, Arm More Kids!"
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,999
13,985
136
Clearly, the only antidote to a bad 9 year old with a gun is a good 9 year old with a gun.

The Trumpian three word chant for this is "Arm More Kids, Arm More Kids!"
well, if the teachers at this kid's school were armed, when they raised concerns about this kid from the beginning, they could have just shot him first before he killed anyone, right? I'm sure they would have been embraced as patriots for killing a kid prior to him killing someone else.

Ammosexual logic is a thing to behold
 
Jun 19, 2004
23,955
1,441
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well, if the teachers at this kid's school were armed, when they raised concerns about this kid from the beginning, they could have just shot him first before he killed anyone, right? I'm sure they would have been embraced as patriots for killing a kid prior to him killing someone else.

Ammosexual logic is a thing to behold
You have to prove nine year olds foiling zombie attacks could never happen before the gun toters will eben discuss more stringent controls on gun ownership because freedumbs
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
13,591
5,543
146
The stat quoters in these threads always seem to ignore these behavioral issues that even the studies they're quoting say play a role, Mental health issues, drugs, alcohol, etc.

It's also very interesting to note they never use actual numbers. It's always "greater" or "increased", never your odds are x and if you have a gun in the house it increases to y. For example the odds of dying by accidental gunshot are ~ 1 in 8350 and those odds increase 2.5x by having a gun in the house, it's still really long odds. The gun grabbers wont characterize it that way because they're trying to make you as scared as they are of guns. It's a really transparent strategy.

You're missing the other side of the odds. If you say you want a weapon for self protection, that suggest you wish to lower your risk from being injured or killed by a bad guy. The overall chance of this happening to you, with or without owning a gun is also very low. For purchasing a weapon to be logically consistent with the desire to increase your safety the amount of risk it buys down by allowing you to successfully defend yourself must be higher than the other risks owning a gun increases.

The only case a weapon lowers your risk is if you are attacked and it ends with you successfully using it to protect yourself or others. For the other 99.999% of your life it is increasing your risk of accidentally or intentionally shooting yourself, a loved one, or an innocent bystander. Now good gun owning safety habits can lower these risk, (gun safe, trigger locks, storing it unloaded, trigger discipline, etc) but overall it's an increase in catastrophic risk.

Even in the case of being attacked, having a weapon on you opens you up to accidentally shooting yourself, a loved one, or bystander, being misidentified as an armed bad guy and shot by the police or other good guy with a gun, or still simply being injured in the attack.

So those who claim they have a weapon for self protection have made themselves less safe even if its just by a little.
 
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IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,075
244
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You're missing the other side of the odds. If you say you want a weapon for self protection, that suggest you wish to lower your risk from being injured or killed by a bad guy. The overall chance of this happening to you, with or without owning a gun is also very low. For purchasing a weapon to be logically consistent with the desire to increase your safety the amount of risk it buys down by allowing you to successfully defend yourself must be higher than the other risks owning a gun increases.

The only case a weapon lowers your risk is if you are attacked and it ends with you successfully using it to protect yourself or others. For the other 99.999% of your life it is increasing your risk of accidentally or intentionally shooting yourself, a loved one, or an innocent bystander. Now good gun owning safety habits can lower these risk, (gun safe, trigger locks, storing it unloaded, trigger discipline, etc) but overall it's an increase in catastrophic risk.

Even in the case of being attacked, having a weapon on you opens you up to accidentally shooting yourself, a loved one, or bystander, being misidentified as an armed bad guy and shot by the police or other good guy with a gun, or still simply being injured in the attack.

So those who claim they have a weapon for self protection have made themselves less safe even if its just by a little.
I'm really not missing it and have considered everything you talk about. In general, I agree with what you've said.

You've also done what I mentioned in my previous post which is to use "increase" and "less" without any hard numbers for reference.

Studies and stats tell us that ~50 million households have guns and there's about 13,500 gun deaths (not suicides) each year in the US. Add another 30,000 for non fatal incidents. Assuming each incident occurs in a household (obviously they don't) that means that 99.913% of the households that have a gun will not have an incident. Personally, I like those odds.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
26,436
5,865
136
I'm really not missing it and have considered everything you talk about. In general, I agree with what you've said.

You've also done what I mentioned in my previous post which is to use "increase" and "less" without any hard numbers for reference.

Studies and stats tell us that ~50 million households have guns and there's about 13,500 gun deaths (not suicides) each year in the US. Add another 30,000 for non fatal incidents. Assuming each incident occurs in a household (obviously they don't) that means that 99.913% of the households that have a gun will not have an incident. Personally, I like those odds.
Why the fuck would you ignore suicides when talking about safety? Talk about cherry picking data!
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
The stat quoters in these threads always seem to ignore these behavioral issues that even the studies they're quoting say play a role, Mental health issues, drugs, alcohol, etc.

It's also very interesting to note they never use actual numbers. It's always "greater" or "increased", never your oddis are x and if you have a gun in the house it increases to y. For example the odds of dying by accidental gunshot are ~ 1 in 8350 and those odds increase 2.5x by having a gun in the house, it's still really long odds. The gun grabbers wont characterize it that way because they're trying to make you as scared as they are of guns. It's a really transparent strategy.
I feel like you want to bring up smoking deaths but remembered what account you were logged into at the he last second...
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
6,452
1,458
136
Why the fuck would you ignore suicides when talking about safety? Talk about cherry picking data!
I'm not sure it's purely cherry picking, but you are right that suicide is the biggest public health concern for gun ownership.

Typical defenses include:
That doesn't apply to me because I'd never kill myself (yeah... Not something anyone can reliably predict unfortunately)
People who want to kill themselves will just do so some other way (a huge amount of data shows this to be untrue. Some won't attempt if means are restricted and some will attempt by less lethal means and be much more likely to survive)
 
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