From my new perspective as an educator, I'm frightened by the remarkable inability to write displayed by my students.

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
202
106
Some of these papers are so horribly bad they read like they were written by a first grader.

I wish I could just type in some of the gems that I've read, but I could get in trouble for that. :D

I've been laughing out loud at them because the mistakes are so bad.
 

Wuffsunie

Platinum Member
May 4, 2002
2,808
0
0
How old are the kids?

Private or public institution? (assumes non-post-secondary education)

Highlights of some of them, please?
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
202
106
Oh sorry, this is a college course. 200 level. Most of my students are sophomores or juniors. Which makes the situation doubly sad.

edit: This is sort of what I'm getting, not a direct quote from any of my papers:

"In this experiment I plan to test the theory that the placebo effects people even though it isn't real and that people who take a placebo will act like they have taken the real thing and that it will still effect them even though it isn't real."

Sigh.
 

beatmix01

Golden Member
Jun 22, 2001
1,008
1
0
thats cause kids think the write way to write is the same way they type on instant messenger


... the man went to the store and told him mom he'd brb...
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: beatmix01
thats cause kids think the write way to write is the same way they type on instant messenger


... the man went to the store and told him mom he'd brb...

What is wrong with Insant Messenger? :D

And I think that also you gotta remember that its hard to write again...I used to be a very proficient writers but freaking after my Senior Year where all the English teachers let us slide I really lost my ability to write well....

Case in point: My first Essay got a C+ and it was horrible, but by the time I did my ICE 2 papers later I got an A.

What I don't like is how there are only 4 essays total (prolly someothing simlar with all writing classes not gear towards humanities/english majors...) because it doesn't give you evnough practice to get back into the groove
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,948
130
106
60% of college students need remedial math and reading instruction..any wonder why jobs are leaving the US and the ones that remain are at the command of foreign nationals with a real education...
 

PaperclipGod

Banned
Apr 7, 2003
2,021
0
0
Originally posted by: Spoooon
Oh sorry, this is a college course. 200 level. Most of my students are sophomores or juniors. Which makes the situation doubly sad.

edit: This is sort of what I'm getting, not a direct quote from any of my papers:

"In this experiment I plan to test the theory that the placebo effects people even though it isn't real and that people who take a placebo will act like they have taken the real thing and that it will still effect them even though it isn't real."

Sigh.

Is it an English course or something else?

If English... do you mark all the papers poorly because of the awful writing skills, or do you have to use a scale?
 

Gerbil333

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2002
3,072
0
76
My mom teaches a 101 English class at SEMO. I don't see how some of the students even passed high school English.
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
202
106
Not english. It's a psych course where they learn the proper way to write a research proposal for submission to a journal. Of course, the tone of the paper is supposed to be scientific, not juvenile. ;)
 

PaperclipGod

Banned
Apr 7, 2003
2,021
0
0
Originally posted by: Spoooon
Not english. It's a psych course where they learn the proper way to write a research proposal for submission to a journal. Of course, the tone of the paper is supposed to be scientific, not juvenile. ;)

haha... you should leave a link to this thread among the comments on their papers when you correct them.
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
202
106
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Originally posted by: Spoooon
Not english. It's a psych course where they learn the proper way to write a research proposal for submission to a journal. Of course, the tone of the paper is supposed to be scientific, not juvenile. ;)

haha... you should leave a link to this thread among the comments on their papers when you correct them.

Yeah, right. "Go here to see how me and strangers from around the country made fun of your writing ability." :D

What's sad is that most of the bad papers are from students who never visited with me during office hours or they failed to collect their rough drafts. They had an opportunity to get a lot of the mistakes fixed by me, but they didn't take advantage.
 

IamElectro

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2003
1,470
0
76
It's scary to think that some of these kids are our future. At 29 I started back to school (WVU). I'm now in my 3rd semester back and constanly amazed at the lack of knowledge and common sense the kids in school have today.

I work in a computer lab at school and get to see 1st hand what your referring to. On slow nights we have read some of the papers kids write and they would blow your mind. I have had to help kids do some of the most simple tasks ex. attachments to emails, print documents, etc. The list could go on and on. We have even seen kids try and change documents around and use them as thier own that other students left on the lab hd's.
 
May 31, 2003
30
0
0
What's sad is that most of the bad papers are from students who never visited with me during office hours or they failed to collect their rough drafts. They had an opportunity to get a lot of the mistakes fixed by me, but they didn't take advantage.

now that is just sad. i always take advantage of my teachers office hours when a paper is due. when students don't make their best effort to get the help they need, they can blame no one else for thier crappy grade. they wine and complain, "that teacher gave me a C. that -female dog- of a teacher. she hates me." no no no sonny (not leave the females out)...girlly...you EARNED that C, it was not given to you chica (<----hehe, you know i love ya girls). language is a powerful tool. i feel it is their lose if people dont want to learn rhetorical skills. damn!

well thats my word, my piece, my belief. really it breaks down to who can present their thoughts in a more convincing manner.

lates

plug----->puddle of mudd is a good band. listen to the song "away from me." its got a catchy toon.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
You should announce to the class that you will ding them for poor grammar and spelling, and explain why. That way, they're warned in advance. Personally, I think the fact that so many people who are theoretically writing "at the college level" yet can't hold a coherent thought down on paper is absolutely pathetic.
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
202
106
Originally posted by: snigeronepiece
now that is just sad. i always take advantage of my teachers office hours when a paper is due. when students don't make their best effort to get the help they need, they can blame no one else for thier crappy grade. they wine and complain, "that teacher gave me a C. that -female dog- of a teacher. she hates me." no no no sonny (not leave the females out)...girlly...you EARNED that C, it was not given to you chica (<----hehe, you know i love ya girls). language is a powerful tool. i feel it is their lose if people dont want to learn rhetorical skills. damn!
Yeah, I'm expecting a lot of those students to blame me, but oh well. I still have all the emails that I've sent saying that I'm available for help after class and during office hours. I have all the rough drafts that weren't picked up. Ah, screw 'em. :D

edit: I do have a few "almost perfect" papers. I'd like to just give them 100's because they're so good compared to the rest, but there's no way the prof will let me do that.
 
May 31, 2003
30
0
0
edit: I do have a few "almost perfect" papers. I'd like to just give them 100's because they're so good compared to the rest, but there's no way the prof will let me do that.



you should follow through on your ideas and give those few 'near perfects' A's. that is, "awww screw it" and give em A's. proff...b/s, you can make up something if another teacher asks you, "why did you gave that paper an A?" grading is objective, you can give them A's if you want to, but maybe there are other reasons you dont want to give A's to students??? maybe you just dont want to see them get a perfect. perhaps....? ponder upon thy question that has been lain before yee.

Away from me. you listen to it yet?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Originally posted by: snigeronepiece
now that is just sad. i always take advantage of my teachers office hours when a paper is due. when students don't make their best effort to get the help they need, they can blame no one else for thier crappy grade. they wine and complain, "that teacher gave me a C. that -female dog- of a teacher. she hates me." no no no sonny (not leave the females out)...girlly...you EARNED that C, it was not given to you chica (<----hehe, you know i love ya girls). language is a powerful tool. i feel it is their lose if people dont want to learn rhetorical skills. damn!

I hate to say it, but the above is an excellent example of such bad writing. Good thing this is an informal forum as opposed to a term paper. ;)
 

Spoooon

Lifer
Mar 3, 2000
11,565
202
106
Well, the papers are graded in such a way that it has to be perfect to get a 100. 90's and up can still happen, but they have to be pretty close to perfect. So far, I only have 3 papers that are in the estimated 85 and up pile. Hopefully my 70 and up pile will have a few papers sneak into the upper 80's. I won't know till I'm done marking all the papers though.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
Something changed in public education in America in the late '80s (which was right about the time I was graduating from high school). Public schools are no longer institutions of learning, they are just massive babysitting centers. After all, why bother to teach the kid? Or even bother with failing grades? Either way, the parents will probably sue.

In my opinion, a solid grasp of language and good writing skills are more important than any college degree. Don't think that technical skills and a fancy degree are going to take you to the top. If you can't communicate properly, no one will ever respect you. Think about it... sooner or later, you'll have to write a report to your boss, and not just what you write but how you write it will determine his/her opinion of you.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
I think selective schools are a great idea, that way you don't get thick people in them, and all the clever people can help each other improve. Plus you're very unlikely to get a totally unintelligable piece of work.
Selective mean free, but with an entrance exam, not private schools. Seperate the wheat from the chaff.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Something changed in public education in America in the late '80s (which was right about the time I was graduating from high school). Public schools are no longer institutions of learning, they are just massive babysitting centers. After all, why bother to teach the kid? Or even bother with failing grades? Either way, the parents will probably sue.

I wonder if this is really true, or if people just say that? In other words, has anyone actually studied teaching methods to determine exactly what, if anything, has changed? And if it has, how can momentum be built to change it back?

One thing I have been hearing about lately (as in, I think Slashdot referred to an article on it) is how computers are being misused in education. In other words, unless the classes that are being taught are themselves computer related, schools are spending a significant amount of money on what are essentially spiffy toys. Leaving, of course, less for textbooks, supplies, and more and better-paid teachers.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,502
1
81
Most people do not review and edit what they write. Just read some of the posts and threads on this forum.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
4
81
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Most people do not review and edit what they write. Just read some of the posts and threads on this forum.

but writing for an internet forum is completely different from writing a paper for school.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,502
1
81
Originally posted by: dighn
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Most people do not review and edit what they write. Just read some of the posts and threads on this forum.

but writing for an internet forum is completely different from writing a paper for school.

Reviewing and editing what you write is a habit one learns. I review and edit everything I write.