Learning Windows XP by Robin Miller (Roblimo at slashdot)
short article but worth a read, thought some people here may enjoy it 🙂
short article but worth a read, thought some people here may enjoy it 🙂
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from linux to windows: article, good read
- Thread starter xSauronx
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WobbleWobble
Diamond Member
It's an interesting read. A few comments though (note I am mainly a Windows user).
About the Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V thing... I thought most Linux users were keyboard centric? Anyways, personally I usually have my left hand on my keyboard and my right hand on my mouse.
I thought automatic Windows Updates requires you to say "Ok" to it first before it'll start downloading? Maybe he accidentally enabled it and didn't remember or Toshiba automatically enables it for the user. It's a hindsight of either this writer or Toshiba, I'm pretty sure Windows before you ok the option will not go out and download right away.
Not using Microsoft Office on Windows is kind of being deprived. It is THE program for Windows and asides from it's high cost, it's still arguably the best office suite. StarOffice is ok, but I don't think it's as good as Office. Outlook 2003 does come with a spam filter as well.
Not typing in the password when you're installing programs is because all users are usually "Administrators". An arguable topic... that's for another thread 😀
The whole mIRC thing, I think he was being ignorant as the add server option is connect to server box that pops up when you first start using program. And as far as I know, mIRC doesn't expire after 30 days... it says it does, but I haven't seen it expire yet.
As for the pop-up thing, there are free blockers available. Including the well loved Google Toolbar.
About the Messenger service thing, yes, that is a PITA, but it is easily diabled if you know how to do it. It's too bad that it had been exploited for use over the Internet as it can be used over a network effectively. And I hope he isn't confusing it with the Windows Messenger/MSN chat client. Similarly named, so I don't blame him if he was mistaked.
About general software, the computer industry and community would be in an uproar if it included more things, such as Office, spam blocker, anti-virus, photo-editing and such. Is it supposed to be part of the operating system? No. Heck, when IE was included, MS got sued.
How installing hardware is easier in Linux than Windows beats the hell out of me. A Add New Hardware window pops up, put in your CD and tell the wizard to scan for it. And to remove it, just pull it out. Windows is smart enough to know what to do with it. Does that seem hard?
About the Calendar thing, just double click on the time... you get a Calendar.
Granted, most of his complaints were because of habits. I have plenty of complaints about Linux as well, RedHat doesn't even come with a MP3 decoder! I've tried the switch to Linux, didn't like it, probably because of my Windows habits. He can keep his Linux and I'll keep my Windows.
About the Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V thing... I thought most Linux users were keyboard centric? Anyways, personally I usually have my left hand on my keyboard and my right hand on my mouse.
I thought automatic Windows Updates requires you to say "Ok" to it first before it'll start downloading? Maybe he accidentally enabled it and didn't remember or Toshiba automatically enables it for the user. It's a hindsight of either this writer or Toshiba, I'm pretty sure Windows before you ok the option will not go out and download right away.
Not using Microsoft Office on Windows is kind of being deprived. It is THE program for Windows and asides from it's high cost, it's still arguably the best office suite. StarOffice is ok, but I don't think it's as good as Office. Outlook 2003 does come with a spam filter as well.
Not typing in the password when you're installing programs is because all users are usually "Administrators". An arguable topic... that's for another thread 😀
The whole mIRC thing, I think he was being ignorant as the add server option is connect to server box that pops up when you first start using program. And as far as I know, mIRC doesn't expire after 30 days... it says it does, but I haven't seen it expire yet.
As for the pop-up thing, there are free blockers available. Including the well loved Google Toolbar.
About the Messenger service thing, yes, that is a PITA, but it is easily diabled if you know how to do it. It's too bad that it had been exploited for use over the Internet as it can be used over a network effectively. And I hope he isn't confusing it with the Windows Messenger/MSN chat client. Similarly named, so I don't blame him if he was mistaked.
About general software, the computer industry and community would be in an uproar if it included more things, such as Office, spam blocker, anti-virus, photo-editing and such. Is it supposed to be part of the operating system? No. Heck, when IE was included, MS got sued.
How installing hardware is easier in Linux than Windows beats the hell out of me. A Add New Hardware window pops up, put in your CD and tell the wizard to scan for it. And to remove it, just pull it out. Windows is smart enough to know what to do with it. Does that seem hard?
About the Calendar thing, just double click on the time... you get a Calendar.
Granted, most of his complaints were because of habits. I have plenty of complaints about Linux as well, RedHat doesn't even come with a MP3 decoder! I've tried the switch to Linux, didn't like it, probably because of my Windows habits. He can keep his Linux and I'll keep my Windows.
Hehe, funny but true.
After a few hours of using XP I am squinting all over the place, looking for icons and stuff. It gives me a headache.
Also very little spam is cool, so is not having to worry about viruses and worms and stuff.
Oh ya, no BSOD. Although since I am using debian unstable with transgaming stuff, ocasionally It gets wacked out and slow. So I go alt+ctl+F1 and type "/etc/init.d/gdm restart" and 7 seconds later I am back to a nice fresh gui. Much nicer then rebooting.
Also updates and patches are cool too. alt-ctrl-F1 then a "apt-get update" leave come back 2 minutes later and then "apt-get upgrade" and then go back to what I am doing. Check back every 5 minutes or so and then answer a couple questions if anything new comes up and I have a up to date OS again. No reboots, no interuptions to my browsing or work or whatever.
Nice stuff.
After a few hours of using XP I am squinting all over the place, looking for icons and stuff. It gives me a headache.
Also very little spam is cool, so is not having to worry about viruses and worms and stuff.
Oh ya, no BSOD. Although since I am using debian unstable with transgaming stuff, ocasionally It gets wacked out and slow. So I go alt+ctl+F1 and type "/etc/init.d/gdm restart" and 7 seconds later I am back to a nice fresh gui. Much nicer then rebooting.
Also updates and patches are cool too. alt-ctrl-F1 then a "apt-get update" leave come back 2 minutes later and then "apt-get upgrade" and then go back to what I am doing. Check back every 5 minutes or so and then answer a couple questions if anything new comes up and I have a up to date OS again. No reboots, no interuptions to my browsing or work or whatever.
Nice stuff.
Each tool for the best result. You could be using the arrows and tab buttons instead of the mouse, but that's irritating. If your going to use the mouse then you might as well be efficiant about it. Linux users use the keyboard when they can becuase it's usually quicker to type stuff out then do the hunt and click game.
I mean when I want to go to a application's folder, say quake3 It goes like this:
cd /usr/lo(tab)g(tab)q(tab) (enter)
Done. When I want to go to my home folder:
cd ~ (enter)
done. Say I got a bunch of new maps I downloaded for urban terror mod and they are in my home directory. To copy and paste.
sudo cp ~/*pk3 /usr/lo(tab)g(tab)q(tab)urba(tab) (enter)
See, nice!
In Windows, I have to
double left click on documents folder, move stuff around (clickty clickty), highlight all the files, right click on one, select copy, hit the X button, double left click on my computer, double click on C:, double left click on program files, double left click on quake3, double left click on urbanterror, right click on the window, select paste. (get aspirin) Done! 😛 After a couple hours of doing that sort of thing my wrist gets sore and I start getting paranoid about repetative stress syndrom.
But of course I am biased. 🙂
WobbleWobble
Diamond Member
Windows does have tab-completion, not as good as Linux, but it does.
I would have opened up two Windows and drag and drop.
And Linux commands confuse me... cp instead of copy? ls instead of dir? Information overload!!! (j/k) 😛
But to each his own :beer:
I would have opened up two Windows and drag and drop.
And Linux commands confuse me... cp instead of copy? ls instead of dir? Information overload!!! (j/k) 😛
But to each his own :beer:
Barnaby W. Füi
Elite Member
My two biggest complaints about windows useability:
1. Window management
- The button to make the window really big is a couple pixels away from the button that KILLS THE APP
- I can't hold alt to move/resize windows, I have to peck at the 15 pixel tall titlebar or the tiny freaking window edges.
- No desktops or viewports. Yeah, nvidia drivers or other programs let you have multiple desktops, but they blow. So you're stuck with 15 windows stacked on top of one another? That's unusable.
- Customizing mouse and key bindings - non-existent in windows
2. The learning curve
As you get better with windows, you don't get *that* much faster. You can only peck around at tiny icons so quickly. With a good unix shell, your skills increase more and more as you learn more. Shell scripts and utilities interconnect and pile on top of each other, and you can do things that are just amazing compared to what you are limited to in a gui.
1. Window management
- The button to make the window really big is a couple pixels away from the button that KILLS THE APP
- I can't hold alt to move/resize windows, I have to peck at the 15 pixel tall titlebar or the tiny freaking window edges.
- No desktops or viewports. Yeah, nvidia drivers or other programs let you have multiple desktops, but they blow. So you're stuck with 15 windows stacked on top of one another? That's unusable.
- Customizing mouse and key bindings - non-existent in windows
2. The learning curve
As you get better with windows, you don't get *that* much faster. You can only peck around at tiny icons so quickly. With a good unix shell, your skills increase more and more as you learn more. Shell scripts and utilities interconnect and pile on top of each other, and you can do things that are just amazing compared to what you are limited to in a gui.
WobbleWobble
Diamond Member
Keyboard shortcuts help make using Windows a lot more efficiently.
I totally agree with how the Close button is so close to the Maximize button. How many times have I made that mistake!
I really dont think the guy who wrote that review was really telling us anything new. we all know that if you are used to linux and switch to windows, or vice versa, lots of your habits will no longer work in the new os. most of his complaints centered around the fact that he didnt know what he was doing! for example windows updated DOES allow you to pick and choose what you want to install, and it DOES tell you what you are doing. Beyond simply not knowing how to use windows properly and missing some of the shortcuts available in linux, he didnt actually say much about winxp as an os. Nothing crashed for him, etc etc ............... he just didnt like it cause he wasnt used to it. Bascially, i thought the article was pretty worthless.
That being said, i dont want to start a flame war or anything, and i will gladly agree that linux can be pretty awesome. On the other hand, i quite like winxp, aside from its security holes.
just my opinion, 🙂
butch
That being said, i dont want to start a flame war or anything, and i will gladly agree that linux can be pretty awesome. On the other hand, i quite like winxp, aside from its security holes.
just my opinion, 🙂
butch
NEVERwinter
Senior member
yea... mainly it's just a habit problem.
I'm a total windows user until I got in college, which I must use Macintosh for my studio works. Headache, trying to get used with everything, trying to figure out which is which, searching for softwares that is free in Windows and pay on Mac, etc. well, after a couple of hours of learning and weeks of using it.. I get used to it. Nothing painful.
I'm a total windows user until I got in college, which I must use Macintosh for my studio works. Headache, trying to get used with everything, trying to figure out which is which, searching for softwares that is free in Windows and pay on Mac, etc. well, after a couple of hours of learning and weeks of using it.. I get used to it. Nothing painful.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
I think the article was pretty uninsightful. Basically, it was just that he was unused to different applications and had lot's or problems with all the little habits. But who isn't unused to different applications?
He did have some valid complaints though about MS being behind the curve on spam and browser features.
And some things were just dumb like how could he have not found the calendar in the clock? You just double click. And the tasbar? You just drag onto it.
(and I agree with him about MIRC being obtuse.)
He did have some valid complaints though about MS being behind the curve on spam and browser features.
And some things were just dumb like how could he have not found the calendar in the clock? You just double click. And the tasbar? You just drag onto it.
(and I agree with him about MIRC being obtuse.)
Barnaby W. Füi
Elite Member
I already knew that, the argument was more of one about principle, otherwise I would have sat there and tried to think of every single problem in windows.
yes, that is idiotic.
i'd much rather click the titlebar. For one thing, in the default XP theme (luna), it's well over 20 pixels tall... which drives me crazy - i don't have a 25-foot screen, so realestate is valuable. I use a ~18 pixel tall title bar, which is still pretty easy to hit. Another thing... once I've clicked it, I can VERY QUICKLY move the window where I want, even if it is a long way away. Moving stuff by keyboard is a pain in the butt. If you really must... alt+spacebar, m
Yes, agreed. I forgot about the nvidia one. I'll give it a try. The MS one is fairly slow.
edit: The nvidia one is decent. It doesn't let you use the windows key in hotkeys, so I set it to ctrl+alt+number, which is slightly less good, but we'll see if I get used to using the multiple desktops. The nvidia one lets you make certain apps show on all desktops (e.g. winamp) which is good.
What do you mean?
It's "different". Navigating directories is MUCH faster on a commandline, but moving / copying files is faster on a GUI (at least for me). Shell scripting is very nice, and more convenient than VBScript.
NEVERwinter
Senior member
LOL. good point. I must read it again in a different point of view.
WobbleWobble
Diamond Member
For power users it's of great use. I think it would confuse the basic/illiterate users. They'll be wondering where there app was and not knowing/forgetting that it's on the other desktop pane. So I think MS should stick with a single Window pane enviroment.
Didn't MS release a multipane Windowing enviroment with PowerToys? I don't quite remember...
Barnaby W. Füi
Elite Member
No, I'm not talking about moving the window around with the keyboard, I'm talking about holding down alt, using my mouse button to click *anywhere* on the window, and then dragging it around. Find a linux machine and try it, pretty much every window manager does it. Right button works the same way for resizing, and many window managers have quadrant-based resizing, where if you alt+right drag in the top left quarter of the window, you resize it in that direction.
Can you drag windows around from one desktop to another? Can you switch desktops by hitting the screen edge with a user-specified mouse event? Can you assign keys for absolute switches (i.e. "go to desktop 3"), *and* relative switches ("go one desktop up")? Also, any good window manager that supports multiple desktops lets you put a window on any combination of different desktops. And if you use viewports (kind of different than desktops), you can make a window sticky so it appears on all viewports (i.e. it "sticks" to the glass on your monitor).
I want windows key+F11 to make a window resize and move itself to take up the left half of my screen, and windows key+f12 to do the same for the right side. I want windows key+plus to "grow" a window by 20px in all directions, and windows key+minus to shrink it. I want to use windows key+[hjkl] to focus windows to the left, bottom, top, and right of the current window, respectively. Etc. Oh, and if I get another cool idea for automating my window manager in the future, I want to be able to easily implement it and assign it to an arbitrary mouse or keyboard event. Which I can do.
Wait... you can't even control how the mouse focus works in windows, what was I thinking? 😉 (yes I know you can change it with some tweak utility, but it's extremely neutered)
Suppose it depends on what you're doing. I can't imagine "rm *.pyc" being faster in a gui.
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