FROM IRAQ: A MARINE?S NOTES

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: BoberFett
A Marine's notes? What kind of Marine has this kind of information available to them? Is this a general or a sergeant? How does your average grunt know what's contained on a laptop they capture? How does a grunt know a particular IED is Iranian? This does indeed sound like propaganda.

Remember the thread about "The Secret Letter from Iraq"?
The Secret Letter From Iraq
It was written by someone with a TON of rather high level information. Apparently an officer or someone working in intelligence.

You seem to think we have a bunch of morons running around in uniform, are you a friend of John Kerry's?
The fact is that many members of our military are highly intelligent and also I am sure a lot of what is learned by the brass is shared with the troops in order to give them the necessary information to stay alive.
I can see a brief where privates are told about the new IED and how they are made and what the look like. That is the kind of information that they need to stay alive.

Perhaps some of you should read new stories written by the few reporters who have been to the front lines, mostly former military personnel themselves, and see how they are written and how the soldiers act. The tone and manor of this letter is very similar to those stories.

Finally, it is amazing how you guys jump all over this and try to prove it as being propaganda. I guess you can stand the idea of anything that might disagree with the view of Iraq presented by the media. Just like Vietnam, it is not the military war we are losing, it is the political one. If we give up and leave it will not be because the military could not get their part of the job done, but because the politicians could not get their part done.

And YOU seem to think that everyone who isn't wearing a uniform is some sort of moron. More than that, you think you are some sort of genius because you listen to the guys who are "actually there" (that happen to agree with your views).

But you're right on one point, this IS a big political problem...just not the one you think it is. There are problems with this war, even the high level folks in the Pentagon (and they would know, right?) admit that. But every time someone mentions those problems, and does nothing more than ask that they be addressed, some jackass jumps out of the woodwork and asks them why they hate America, or produces some snotty letter from someone who may or may not be in the military and may or may not know which end of the rifle to point at the bad guys as absolute proof that everything said by the media, experts inside and outside the military, and the general public is dead wrong. But WE'RE the ones rejecting reality because we're paying attention to the entire media and military experts and leaders instead of basing our entire viewpoint off some random letter from god only knows who. Is that the system?

The political problem isn't us, it's you. The problem with the Iraq war is that a group of people in this country has decided that the best way to run a war is through politics, through rejection of reality in favor of imagining that wishes can become reality if you just believe hard enough. Only it's not the opposition, it's the people running the war. From day one those morons decided that the best defense against reality was ignorance, and they ran the war like they were being helped by Harry Potter and his magic wand. And you people have been right there with them, ready to furiously attack ANYONE who dares to question the dogma that we will win the war because WE WILL WIN THE WAR.

 

[Tom]

There isn't any reason for this "letter" to be anonymous, so there's no reason to think it's genuine either.

 

[Craig234]

You seem to think we have a bunch of morons running around in uniform, are you a friend of John Kerry's?

Stop the lie, John. John Kerry has never said the military is filled with morons. Never.

I gave you credit in a thread today for correctly saying the incident the republicans hyped and lied about was a "botched joke." Remember what you said yourself.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
As I pointed out in the OP I to wish there was more information on where this letter came from. It would be really nice to see a link to a third party source such as a blog.
However, I have no doubt that 100% of what is including in this letter is factual. It reads very much like all the other military written letters we have seen posted on here or on other sites.
In other words, don?t blame the messenger for the message.

Dealmonkey: Did you not just create a thread about a video game? Link And yet you question the validity of this thread? For someone who's signature is all about protecting our civil liberties you sure seem to attack a lot of others for what they think or say/post.

And Steeplerot: ?More BS extremist right wing Neoconservative think tank propaganda? Are you not the person who just compared Kieth Olberman to Edward Murrow? With that world view anyone to the right of Stalin would be a extremist right winger.

agreed!! Nice letter!~!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
A Marine's notes? What kind of Marine has this kind of information available to them? Is this a general or a sergeant? How does your average grunt know what's contained on a laptop they capture? How does a grunt know a particular IED is Iranian? This does indeed sound like propaganda.

you just don`t get it do you....rofl

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Dealmonkey: Did you not just create a thread about a video game? Link And yet you question the validity of this thread? For someone who's signature is all about protecting our civil liberties you sure seem to attack a lot of others for what they think or say/post.

WTF does that have to do with anything? Are you unable to read and comprehend? You have an alleged letter from a Marine in Iraq. Totally anonymous. No name, no unit, no nothing. How is this even news? That's what I'm questioning, not your ability to post it or not. Stop being such a drama queen and think for a moment.

as if your the bastion of truth, justice and thre Amrican way DealMonkey...way too funny!!

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: BoberFett
A Marine's notes? What kind of Marine has this kind of information available to them? Is this a general or a sergeant? How does your average grunt know what's contained on a laptop they capture? How does a grunt know a particular IED is Iranian? This does indeed sound like propaganda.

you just don`t get it do you....rofl

Uh, good one. You sure zinged me. :roll:

When you have something of substance get back to me. :thumbsdown:

 

[Pandaren]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
And YOU seem to think that everyone who isn't wearing a uniform is some sort of moron. More than that, you think you are some sort of genius because you listen to the guys who are "actually there" (that happen to agree with your views).

But you're right on one point, this IS a big political problem...just not the one you think it is. There are problems with this war, even the high level folks in the Pentagon (and they would know, right?) admit that. But every time someone mentions those problems, and does nothing more than ask that they be addressed, some jackass jumps out of the woodwork and asks them why they hate America, or produces some snotty letter from someone who may or may not be in the military and may or may not know which end of the rifle to point at the bad guys as absolute proof that everything said by the media, experts inside and outside the military, and the general public is dead wrong. But WE'RE the ones rejecting reality because we're paying attention to the entire media and military experts and leaders instead of basing our entire viewpoint off some random letter from god only knows who. Is that the system?

The political problem isn't us, it's you. The problem with the Iraq war is that a group of people in this country has decided that the best way to run a war is through politics, through rejection of reality in favor of imagining that wishes can become reality if you just believe hard enough. Only it's not the opposition, it's the people running the war. From day one those morons decided that the best defense against reality was ignorance, and they ran the war like they were being helped by Harry Potter and his magic wand. And you people have been right there with them, ready to furiously attack ANYONE who dares to question the dogma that we will win the war because WE WILL WIN THE WAR.

Right on the money.

This thread has been one big frakkup from the start. The whole focus on IEDs and foreign terrorists ignores the reality that the biggest threat to Iraq's future is sectarian violence. A 20:1 kill ratio does not make peace between religious sects that seem determined to duke it out.

 

[Pandaren]

Originally posted by: JEDIYodaas if your the bastion of truth, justice and thre Amrican way DealMonkey...way too funny!!

What is this trash?

 

[maluckey]

Rainsford,

Good points! The Marine in question may be taking a small picture of what he sees and assuming that it applies to the big picture.

Nontheless, I stand by what I said that this letter could cost him his career in the military.

 

[rextilleon]

Although I suspect that this is a forgery, it really is irrelevant. What one Marine, or for that matter 100 Marines think doesn't change reality. Remember, these guys are volunteers who have been trained to take orders and not question authority. There is nothing wrong with that because you can't very well ask someone to put himself in harm's way by fostering free thinking.

Anyway, the few remaining war supporters want to spin it, Iraq is a mess. You can blame it on the press, on the liberals, etc, but this obscene attempt at geo-politics goes on and on destroying families forever.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Dealmonkey: Did you not just create a thread about a video game? Link And yet you question the validity of this thread? For someone who's signature is all about protecting our civil liberties you sure seem to attack a lot of others for what they think or say/post.

WTF does that have to do with anything? Are you unable to read and comprehend? You have an alleged letter from a Marine in Iraq. Totally anonymous. No name, no unit, no nothing. How is this even news? That's what I'm questioning, not your ability to post it or not. Stop being such a drama queen and think for a moment.

as if your the bastion of truth, justice and thre Amrican way DealMonkey...way too funny!!

Are you retarded Jedi? Or do you just act like that for attention?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Yet another letter from an American soldier actually in Iraq on what they see going on.
Unfortunately I have no idea who wrote this or where they are

So then, you have no idea if it is "another letter from an American solider in Iraq", do you. LMAO, here are the facts according to somebody whom I can't identify and don't even know if they have ever been within 5000 miles of Iraq.

Another BS ProfJohn post, complete with a couple of your shills cheering you on.

/thread

 

[WHAMPOM]

If they are killing the enemy 20 to 1 and not achieving a decisive victory, ???????. Hey! Poofjohn, our soldiers went to Iraq to replace Sadam with something better, not something worst! Maybe it's time to quit shooting the alligators and drain the swamp?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: jrenz
Don't worry, this will be shot down as propaganda within a few posts.

You don't mean paid for and completely fictious! Propaganda! Well, I do find it too slick and edited, to be straight from the pen of someone serving in Iraq.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: rextilleon
Although I suspect that this is a forgery, it really is irrelevant. What one Marine, or for that matter 100 Marines think doesn't change reality. Remember, these guys are volunteers who have been trained to take orders and not question authority. There is nothing wrong with that because you can't very well ask someone to put himself in harm's way by fostering free thinking.

Anyway, the few remaining war supporters want to spin it, Iraq is a mess. You can blame it on the press, on the liberals, etc, but this obscene attempt at geo-politics goes on and on destroying families forever.

Actually, we must in certan circumstances question authority. To do so, we must be able to think freely and are trained and educated as such. We are not automatons programmed to do a task regardless.

Like so many others, you seem to regard military members as mindless robots when in fact military members compared in relation to the general population are more highly educated with many NCOs earning bacclaureate degrees with more than a few achieving Master's or even PHd's. All officers must at some point, earn a Master's degree plus any careerist is constantly attending schools to increase tehir professional, leadership and management knowledge.

The last thing I as a commander wanted was to have some mindless buffoon do anything I said regardless. Instead I needed and required subordinates to challenge - respectfully - my decisions. I ws rarely ever wrong, but in what I did, zero errors were the only acceptable standard.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Trust, but verify. Apply to all first hand reports, after that everything is just rumors or lies.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: rextilleon
Although I suspect that this is a forgery, it really is irrelevant. What one Marine, or for that matter 100 Marines think doesn't change reality. Remember, these guys are volunteers who have been trained to take orders and not question authority. There is nothing wrong with that because you can't very well ask someone to put himself in harm's way by fostering free thinking.

Anyway, the few remaining war supporters want to spin it, Iraq is a mess. You can blame it on the press, on the liberals, etc, but this obscene attempt at geo-politics goes on and on destroying families forever.

Actually, we must in certan circumstances question authority. To do so, we must be able to think freely and are trained and educated as such. We are not automatons programmed to do a task regardless.

Like so many others, you seem to regard military members as mindless robots when in fact military members compared in relation to the general population are more highly educated with many NCOs earning bacclaureate degrees with more than a few achieving Master's or even PHd's. All officers must at some point, earn a Master's degree plus any careerist is constantly attending schools to increase tehir professional, leadership and management knowledge.

The last thing I as a commander wanted was to have some mindless buffoon do anything I said regardless. Instead I needed and required subordinates to challenge - respectfully - my decisions. I ws rarely ever wrong, but in what I did, zero errors were the only acceptable standard.

Is this the kinder, gentler military we keep hearing about? Because all I remember hearing when I challenged authority back in my army days was a master sergeant tearing me a new asshole.

 

[DealMonkey]

Turns out, that this BS from Iraq is more chain-letter politics. The "Marines Notes" are actually an excerpt from an e-mail that circulated widely in November of 2005.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: rextilleon
Although I suspect that this is a forgery, it really is irrelevant. What one Marine, or for that matter 100 Marines think doesn't change reality. Remember, these guys are volunteers who have been trained to take orders and not question authority. There is nothing wrong with that because you can't very well ask someone to put himself in harm's way by fostering free thinking.

Anyway, the few remaining war supporters want to spin it, Iraq is a mess. You can blame it on the press, on the liberals, etc, but this obscene attempt at geo-politics goes on and on destroying families forever.

Actually, we must in certan circumstances question authority. To do so, we must be able to think freely and are trained and educated as such. We are not automatons programmed to do a task regardless.

Like so many others, you seem to regard military members as mindless robots when in fact military members compared in relation to the general population are more highly educated with many NCOs earning bacclaureate degrees with more than a few achieving Master's or even PHd's. All officers must at some point, earn a Master's degree plus any careerist is constantly attending schools to increase tehir professional, leadership and management knowledge.

The last thing I as a commander wanted was to have some mindless buffoon do anything I said regardless. Instead I needed and required subordinates to challenge - respectfully - my decisions. I ws rarely ever wrong, but in what I did, zero errors were the only acceptable standard.

Is this the kinder, gentler military we keep hearing about? Because all I remember hearing when I challenged authority back in my army days was a master sergeant tearing me a new asshole.

Depends on how you challenged authority. As an NCO, if you gave me any lip, I'd tear you a new one as well. As an officer, I would look at my first shirt or senior NCO and he would take care of you.

On the other hand, if you came back with a reasonable alternative that did not challenge authority but aided in mission accomplishment, I suspect you would have been fine.

Civilian or military, there is a time to question and a time to shut up. Those who are successful know when to do one or the other.

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: Craig234

You seem to think we have a bunch of morons running around in uniform, are you a friend of John Kerry's?

Stop the lie, John. John Kerry has never said the military is filled with morons. Never.

I gave you credit in a thread today for correctly saying the incident the republicans hyped and lied about was a "botched joke." Remember what you said yourself.

This is the way you make a political comment while in uniform.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: Craig234

You seem to think we have a bunch of morons running around in uniform, are you a friend of John Kerry's?

Stop the lie, John. John Kerry has never said the military is filled with morons. Never.

I gave you credit in a thread today for correctly saying the incident the republicans hyped and lied about was a "botched joke." Remember what you said yourself.

This is the way you make a political comment while in uniform.

The vast majority of our troops are not ignorant but as that picture demonstrates there are always exceptions. I'm sure you and most of the troops are smart enough to realize that Kerry wasn't talking about you.

 

[keird]

Meh. He's a Senator from my home state - I think I may have wandered in his office as a kid, but I'm not certain. I was looking for those $75 surplus jeeps and I thinked I bumped in to him at the Federal Building. If it was him, then he gave me bad directions. I joined the Army 7 years later.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Turns out, that this BS from Iraq is more chain-letter politics. The "Marines Notes" are actually an excerpt from an e-mail that circulated widely in November of 2005.

ROFL

Originally posted by: jrenz
Don't worry, this will be shot down as propaganda within a few posts.

I told you your brain was getting adled from watching too much Fox news. :laugh:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: keird
Meh. He's a Senator from my home state - I think I may have wandered in his office as a kid, but I'm not certain. I was looking for those $75 surplus jeeps and I thinked I bumped in to him at the Federal Building. If it was him, then he gave me bad directions. I joined the Army 7 years later.

LOL. Where in Mass are you from Soldier?