Fresh install... XP freezes in first few seconds or minutes.

[Red]

As title describes, I'm having troubles with Windows freezing.

It's an Athlon XP-M 2600+ on a Shuttle AN35-N Ultra 400 with 2x256 of PC3200 RAM.
Video card is a Sapphire 9600 Pro.

All the drivers are installed.

When I set the RAM to "By SPD" in BIOS, it's 8-4-4-3... and at these settings MemTest86 has 4 errors almost every time during test 5.

When I set the RAM to 7-3-3-2.5 in BIOS, MemTest86 has errors out the wazoo.

After 30 minutes of testing MemTest with only 4 errors... could this cause Windows to be freezing like crazy? Or could it be video card related (sapphire radeon 9600 pro)? Or what should I be doing to isolate this problem? BIOS is reporting good voltages from the PSU (Raidmax).

 

[FlyingPenguin]

ANY memory errors are unacceptable. Yes, that's why Windows is freezing.

Now you have to figure out why. Your vid card is unlikely to interfere with memory unless it's shorting the data bus. I doubt it since I doubt it would even post. If you have a spare card for testing it wouldn't hurt to eliminate it.

Onboard voltage readings are notoriously unreliable, although if your PSU was out of spec enough to cause problems I'd suspect you'd see something. If you have a spare PSU it would eliminate that possibility. You could also use a digital multimeter ($20 at Radio Shack) to test your voltages (this is the only really reliable way to check your rails). Voltages should be within 5%. For a high-performance system 3% would be better.

Make sure the CPU isn't overheating. Overheating will cause memory errors.

Eliminating all that I would assume the likely culprit is the memory. Not necessarily that it's bad, it's just probably the wrong memory for that board.

I assume this is a dual channel mobo. If so, pulling one stick may allow it to run stable. Dual channel is much fussier about timing. However to be sure it's not defective RAM I'd run MEMTEST with one stick, testing each of the two sticks by themselves.

Assuming you can get it to run stable with one stick then it's just a matter of tweaking the timing and maybe raising the DDR memory voltage slightly to improve stability.

Another issue to be aware of is that for dual channel, both sticks need to be the same. You can't mix and match brands even with the same timing. There are always subtle differences in performance between different memory. For high-performance systems (like gaming or overclocked systems) you should buy MATCHED memory - these are two sticks sold together that have been tested to be a very close match.

This forum is littered with posts by people who made the mistake of buying just any memory that's on sale and ASSUMING that it would work fine on their system. Modern mobos (especially dual channel) are VERY fussy about timing. You should always use a memory manufacturer's online configurator to order memory that's matched to your mobo.

The AN35 is rather notorious for being finicky about memory.

You might get it to run stable by increasing the timing. You didn't mention the manufacturer of your RAM. You might try contacting them and asking them for recommended timing settings. Even simpler, just do a Google search for "AN35-N recommended memory timing" and variations on that. Make sure to also check Google newsgroups. I found this thread which may help: http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=364896

Frankly I'd consider selling the memory and ordering some Crucial or Corsair memory that's guaranteed to work with that mobo. Here's a review of Corsair memory on that mobo: http://www.bigbruin.com/html/crucialddr.htm

If you're planning on doing any serious gaming, I'd recommend at least 1Gb (two 512 sticks).

Hope this helps...

 

[Red]

FP,

Thank you so much for the thorough reply. I pulled the memory to find they are a set of 2x256 of PC3200 Vdata (generic?). I increased he DIMM voltage to 2.7 and it still failed memtest86. I'll probably pick up some Corsair or Crucial. Thanks again, that's one of the best replies I've ever received from this forum!

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Did you try 1 stick by itself? I'd try one stick and in BIOS set the memory timing to the "Safe" BIOS default setting. Unless it's really flaky memory, or just completely incompatible with that mobo, I'd expect one stick to run stable since it won't be running in Dual Channel mode.

If it did run stable with one stick it would at least confirm that it's a memory issue. If it doesn't run stable with one stick it could still be the memory, but it could also be something else.

I'm betting on the memory. The other culprits I mentioned are also possibilities (PSU, overheating, etc).

Oh one other possibility I forgot to mention is that you northbridge chipset (the mobo chipset) could be overheating. That will certainly act like a bad memory problem. If the chipset has a fan on it make sure it's running. Feel the heatsink and make sure it's on securely.

Hope this helps...

 

[mechBgon]

My past experience has also showed that running mismatched bus speeds (DDR400 for RAM but DDR266 for CPU bus, for example) is sometimes a cause for instability. Out-of-sync buses also cost you signficant performance in CPU-dependent situations, as I found when I experimented with sync v. non-sync in UT2003 Demo Botmatch benchmarking. So check that your RAM and CPU are running the same bus speed, 1:1 ratio.

To give an example, I upgraded my sister's AN35N Ultra rig from 2 x 256MB Crucial PC2100 modules to 2 x 512MB PC3200 Corsair ValueSelect modules. But I made sure the DDR400 is running at DDR266 speed. Why? because she's got an AthlonXP 1800+ and its bus is DDR266.

Additionally, RaidMax PSU = in my book. And if your WinXP is not at Service Pack 2 level right from the CD itself, then you need firewall protection from the instant that your network adapter begins working (which would be when you install the nVidia mobo drivers). A router or a third-party firewall or the Windows Internet Connection Firewall (aka Windows Firewall in SP2), any of those would suffice, but they should be in place before the network connection begins to function. Internet worms can take you down within seconds or minutes, depending on how bad your luck is.

 

[xbassman]

I think mechBgon hit it....(usually does )

Also..don't trust what your bios temp and voltage readings tell you.
This week I diagnosed a failing power supply in one of my computers.
The only clue from bios readings was a .5v drop on it's 5v rail when loading a cpu intensive app.
The readings with a multimeter differed by about .4v on the 5v and .5v on the 12v rail.

<edit> spelling

 

[Kraptor]

When your XP freezes is it always happen right after boot then you will be able to use it again? IF you re not using a router then your problem could be that XP is trying to assing ip to your NIC. I have similar problems too. When I am not using a router always encounter this small hang while xp tries to assing ip to my NIC. The easiest way is to get a router or assign manually an ip to ur NIC. Memory problems usually cause crashes and read/write errors, liek you cant open a program, etc.

 

[spherrod]

Originally posted by: Kraptor
When your XP freezes is it always happen right after boot then you will be able to use it again? IF you re not using a router then your problem could be that XP is trying to assing ip to your NIC. I have similar problems too. When I am not using a router always encounter this small hang while xp tries to assing ip to my NIC. The easiest way is to get a router or assign manually an ip to ur NIC. Memory problems usually cause crashes and read/write errors, liek you cant open a program, etc.

 

[CraigRT]

Open up your case and check your motherboard for bad/leaky caps as well, they directly affect stability, and that's right in the middle of the era where bad caps were plaguing mobos.

 

[Red]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
My past experience has also showed that running mismatched bus speeds (DDR400 for RAM but DDR266 for CPU bus, for example) is sometimes a cause for instability. Out-of-sync buses also cost you signficant performance in CPU-dependent situations, as I found when I experimented with sync v. non-sync in UT2003 Demo Botmatch benchmarking. So check that your RAM and CPU are running the same bus speed, 1:1 ratio.

To give an example, I upgraded my sister's AN35N Ultra rig from 2 x 256MB Crucial PC2100 modules to 2 x 512MB PC3200 Corsair ValueSelect modules. But I made sure the DDR400 is running at DDR266 speed. Why? because she's got an AthlonXP 1800+ and its bus is DDR266.

Additionally, RaidMax PSU = in my book. And if your WinXP is not at Service Pack 2 level right from the CD itself, then you need firewall protection from the instant that your network adapter begins working (which would be when you install the nVidia mobo drivers). A router or a third-party firewall or the Windows Internet Connection Firewall (aka Windows Firewall in SP2), any of those would suffice, but they should be in place before the network connection begins to function. Internet worms can take you down within seconds or minutes, depending on how bad your luck is.

Thank you, MBG. The RAM and CPU are both 200FSB (Athlon XP-M 2600+ and PC3200 RAM) and I am installing XP SP2 from the start. I'm almost certain it's the RAM or the mobo, so I'm going to look for leaky capacitors and test the ram in single channel mode.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

I doubt it's leaky caps - that mobo is too new.

Just in case leaky cap photos here: http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=195

 

[xbassman]

Thank you, MBG. The RAM and CPU are both 200FSB (Athlon XP-M 2600+ and PC3200 RAM) and I am installing XP SP2 from the start. I'm almost certain it's the RAM or the mobo, so I'm going to look for leaky capacitors and test the ram in single channel mode.

Well, unless you are overclocking Your mobo would default to 166fsb and 200mem (by SPD).
That would cause errors most of the time.

Just make sure they are in sync.

 

[Red]

I tested a set of good RAM in the board (2x512 of Corsair PC3200) and the memory tested fine. It looks like the Vdata RAM is bad.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Don't toss the Vdata RAM. It's probably not bad, it just doesn't work in that mobo. I seriously doubt both sticks are bad. More than likely you put that memory in a less hi-performance mobo that's less fussy about timing and it would work fine.