French court annuls mariage over lack of virginity.

[Lemon law]

Ran across this story on yahoo news. But as we all somewhat know France has a fairly large Muslim community that the so called "white" larger French population is xenophobic about that same Muslim population.

But lets face the facts, there is a tremendous Muslim central valuation in a bride's virginity, and to only a lesser extent, our so called non Muslim culture values the same thing. Which is somewhat sexist in the extreme, there is a certain male sanctioned right to sow wild oats, but no equivalent right by females to do the same.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...PyGeqd07n9BNASOA2s0NUE

But the link in yahoo news is almost totally silent on what outed the female bride on her lack of virginity.

In the male of our species there is no real test about virginity or lack thereof, unless some female comes forward and says, he did engage with sexual intercourse with me and that witness is deemed creditable. And even permitting the latter case, sometimes its later proved it was not true.

Yet in the female of our species, the test somewhat becomes an intact or not intact hymen. But in some statically significant number of cases, a female will lose her hymen due to physical activity totally unrelated to any sexual activity. And hence that is a poor test of female virginity.

So the question is, how did this French court so rule that this involved fraud? And how would a US court rule?

 

[RichardE]

This is what happens when you change your country to the immigrants ideals rather than keep your own.


It wouldn't happen in the US...yet

 

[magomago]

I read this a while back on BBC and thought about if this topic would appear here...
What the hell are you takling about RichardE. Immigrant ideals? I don't necessarily sympathize with this man, but to him a virgin is something he wanted from his marriage. A marriage is simply a contract - if she stated that she was a virgin and ended up lying...then he has every right to pursue a divorce. Doesn't mean we may agree with those reasons, but doesn't mean his request shouldn't be granted. We grant people divorces here for something as vague as "irreconcilable differences"- what will you do otherwise, force a person to be a marriage that he doesn't want to be in?
This isn't when a country changes their ideals to immigrants at all. This is an immigrant using the legal system to nullify a marriage because she didn't "keep" her end of the bargain. For the french court to NOT grant this divorce would be fvcking ridiculous; pump him on child support if you have to (if they have a kid) and who knows how much of his money he gets to keep (not sure how divorce laws work in france)...but for the state to say "no, you must stay married" is just retarded

edit: my bad they actually annuled it...I was still thinking of the older article in my head at that time....there is NOTHING explosive with this

 

[Kappo]

I dont see why this is bad. Although, what she lied about or why is irrelevant. Swap the two muslims out for white people and I feel the same way : married under false pretenses, no matter what they are, should be ground for annulment.

 

[Zebo]

You do know about the Islamization of Western Europe? Complete with establishment of Muslim enclaves where non-Muslims fear to tread and Sharia law is being instituted in the areas and "moderate" Muslims intimidated and made to comply under pain of violence or death?

I cant wait till these Muslims start beheading stupid Europeans (like you) for blasphemy/sodomy/adultly etc. It will happen. Islam should rule Europe by 2050 though demographic conquest and blood will run in the streets. May just save America and the free world by looking across the pond.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Zebo
You do know about the Islamization of Western Europe? Complete with establishment of Muslim enclaves where non-Muslims fear to tread and Sharia law is being instituted in the areas and "moderate" Muslims intimidated and made to comply under pain of violence or death?

I cant wait till these Muslims start beheading stupid Europeans (like you) for blasphemy/sodomy/adultly etc. It will happen. Islam should rule Europe by 2050 though demographic conquest and blood will run in the streets. May just save America and the free world by looking across the pond.

Well we could just send some of those cobalt tipped warheads over and take care of them right?

 

[1prophet]

Funny people in the West whose own marriages are nothing more than revolving doors led by their celebrity role models.

 

[tvarad]

Stupid Europeans deserve what they are getting. I cannot believe that the cradle of the Renaissance is so bending over backwards to accommodate such medieval moronic thought.

 

[tvarad]

1prophet:

"Funny people in the West whose own marriages are nothing more than revolving doors led by their celebrity role models."

Right. Let's be like the East and legitimize honor killings (wait, it's happening already), and start valuing women by the number of sheep she's worth or the number of chappathis she can make in the kitchen.

 

[Infohawk]

The U.S. would have the exact same result. Visit the Wikipedia page about annulment and you will see the fraud is a grounds for annulment.

The issue isn't virginity, it's that you cannot be defrauded into marrying someone. For example, if you tell someone that you are willing to have children but you are lying, this can be grounds for annulment. Sure, the lie can't be about something trivial, but virginity is rarely considered trivial.

What does the OP mean by "so called 'white' larger French population." Last time I checked white refers to people of European descent and France is in Europe.

 

[Lemon law]

At least Kappo gets it right, this is not a divorce, this is an annulment. But why is everyone assuming the lack of in tact hymen is a automatic sign that the bride is not a virgin?

 

[Svnla]

The bride said she was a virgin and she wasn't = she lied = misrepresented herself = ground for annul the marriage IMO. Who wants to spend the rest of his/her life with a lying spouse.

Now if she came clean and told her potential hubby and he couldn't accept her, then move on and marry someone who doesn't put a big deal on virginity.

You may not think being a virgin is a big deal but with the US divorce rate is over 50% and climbing, maybe other cultures are doing something better than us.

 

[Jaskalas]

The fact that he did not bury her neck deep and stone her to death is an improvement.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The fact that he did not bury her neck deep and stone her to death is an improvement.

because that is part of the religion, right? :roll:

 

[winr]

.......................................................................................................................................
Ran across this story on yahoo news. But as we all somewhat know France has a fairly large Muslim community that the so called "white" larger French population is xenophobic about that same Muslim population.
.......................................................................................................................................

I have a question about ............."As we all know"

Who are "we"...I didnt know the so called French Whites were xenophobic about Muslims.



Why do you use "so called white" and "so called non muslim" ???

What does that mean ???

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: RichardE
This is what happens when you change your country to the immigrants ideals rather than keep your own.


It wouldn't happen in the US...yet

You want to talk about immigrants changing a whole country...you and your people of Israel are the greatest manifestation of what you are claiming in your post, you guys didn't change a country to your ideals....no no no....you guys took over said country.....when you?re in a glass house....you stay away from the stones

And yes this would happen in the US of A a 100 million times over and over and there would be nothing that the bitching and moaning of your Zionist lobbyists would be able to do about it. And don't make me digg for past occurrences of this in the US.

Moving on....let's see what the article says:

....
The decision also exposed the silent shame borne by some Muslim women who transgress long-held <<customs demanding proof of virginity on the wedding night.

In its ruling, <<the court concluded the woman had misrepresented herself as a virgin and that, in this particular marriage, virginity was a prerequisite.

<<But in treating the case as a breach of contract, the ruling was decried by critics who said it undermined decades of progress in women's rights

So let's see....

1- What is a Marriage? A marriage is a legal contract between two people
2- What is a contract? A contract is a legally binding exchange of promises OR agreement between parties <<that the law will enforce.
3- What happened? The woman, a citizen bound by the legality of the contract, lied about a term in the contract (a verbal contract) which was confirmed by the court
4- What then? The woman is in violation of the marriage contract and hence her husband had the legal right as a French citizen to demand from the court that the marriage contract be terminated immediately.


How is this a violation of women rights? Does women rights mean they can get away with lying about extremely important facts like her virginity? Especially when she was pre-notified that it was tantamount for the marriage's existence that she be a virgin?

This guy is a genius, he didn't' violate his wife's rights, he didn't beat her, he didn't mistreat her, he did the civilized thing and took it to court. très bonne Monsieur

Fact is, a Muslim can't do a thing these days, if he does the proper thing or the wrong thing, he gets criticized both ways, make up your minds people, this is pathetic.

Labbee, the lawyer for the bridegroom in question, says it was not the young woman's virginity that was at issue.

"The question is not one of virginity. The question is one of lying," he told The Associated Press.

"In the ruling, there is no word 'Muslim,' there is no word 'religion,' there is no word 'custom.' And if one speaks of virginity it is with the term 'a lie."

Labbee said both the man and the woman "understand that annulling the marriage is preferable to divorce because it wipes the slate clean (of) what you want to forget, but divorce wipes away nothing."

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
At least Kappo gets it right, this is not a divorce, this is an annulment. But why is everyone assuming the lack of in tact hymen is a automatic sign that the bride is not a virgin?

Maybe I missed something in reading the article, but I didn't see any statement that the court's ruling was based on whether the woman's hymen was intact.

I agree with several posters here: If you marry someone based in part on your spouse's representation that they have some particular trait that you hold to be essential, and you later find out that they lied about that trait, then it's totally reasonable that you'd want the marriage annulled.

I personally couldn't care less about virginity. But I can't impose my values on others. And if this fellow made clear what he wanted, and his finance' wasn't honest with him, he has every right to annul the marriage.

This isn't about enforcing old-fashioned gender roles. This is about not being forced to continue a marriage to someone who lied in a vital way to you.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: RichardE
This is what happens when you change your country to the immigrants ideals rather than keep your own.


It wouldn't happen in the US...yet

You want to talk about immigrants changing a whole country...you and your people of Israel are the greatest manifestation of what you are claiming in your post, you guys didn't change a country to your ideals....no no no....you guys took over said country.....when you?re in a glass house....you stay away from the stones

And yes this would happen in the US of A a 100 million times over and over and there would be nothing that the bitching and moaning of your Zionist lobbyists would be able to do about it. And don't make me digg for past occurrences of this in the US.

Moving on....let's see what the article says:

....
The decision also exposed the silent shame borne by some Muslim women who transgress long-held <<<customs demanding proof of virginity on the wedding night.

In its ruling, <<<the court concluded the woman had misrepresented herself as a virgin and that, in this particular marriage, virginity was a prerequisite.

<<<But in treating the case as a breach of contract, the ruling was decried by critics who said it undermined decades of progress in women's rights

So let's see....

1- What is a Marriage? A marriage is a legal contract between two people
2- What is a contract? A contract is a legally binding exchange of promises OR agreement between parties <<<that the law will enforce.
3- What happened? The woman, a citizen bound by the legality of the contract, lied about a term in the contract (a verbal contract) which was confirmed by the court
4- What then? The woman is in violation of the marriage contract and hence her husband had the legal right as a French citizen to demand from the court that the marriage contract be terminated immediately.


How is this a violation of women rights? Does women rights mean they can get away with lying about extremely important facts like her virginity? Especially when she was pre-notified that it was tantamount for the marriage's existence that she be a virgin?

This guy is a genius, he didn't' violate his wife's rights, he didn't beat her, he didn't mistreat her, he did the civilized thing and took it to court. très bonne Monsieur

Fact is, a Muslim can't do a thing these days, if he does the proper thing or the wrong thing, he gets criticized both ways, make up your minds people, this is pathetic.

Labbee, the lawyer for the bridegroom in question, says it was not the young woman's virginity that was at issue.

"The question is not one of virginity. The question is one of lying," he told The Associated Press.

"In the ruling, there is no word 'Muslim,' there is no word 'religion,' there is no word 'custom.' And if one speaks of virginity it is with the term 'a lie."

Labbee said both the man and the woman "understand that annulling the marriage is preferable to divorce because it wipes the slate clean (of) what you want to forget, but divorce wipes away nothing."

I misread the article and made some assumptions. Rereading it I can see now it was a marriage based on lies and kinda shitty of the lady to do that to the guy. Guy did the right thing here.

 

[IronWing]

Divorce/annulment is always sad, a failure. However, it could be a lot worse. At least she ain't stuck with him now and can go on with her life, maybe finding someone who shares her values. Ditto for him.

 

[Lemon law]

I am still mystified. No where in this link was it politely established that the woman in question lied about about her lack of virginity. Which is why I raised the devils advocate question of an in tact hymen not always being that proof of virginity. But that first penetrating bleeding bride might be that proof positive of virginity in this case lacking.

But lets turn the question around, the groom has all this damn time before marriage expecting a virgin, and then gets to post marriage bed, and finds his penis slips right in without
the expected barrier of a bleeding torn hymen. Now where in the link does it say he discovered proof positive that she had lied to him? And why does the court believe the groom?

What precisely outed the bride? I may be a male chauvinistic pig, but were I in the same situation and I beat the bloody crap out of innocent actual virgin because her hymen was no longer in tact, I might fully expect such a girl would confess anything to get out of a marriage with a jerk like that.