Free Weight Vs. Machines- A Discussion

[z1ggy]

A pump does not necessarily translate to functional strength. I can pump my calves all day but it's not going to help my deadlift more than heavy reps of deads. Similarly, you're not going to need huge heads on all 3 parts of the tri's to bench 350, they will grow as the needed resistance increases. While it's good to do accessory work, be sure that you're efficient with your time for your goals. For example, I'm not going to do cable rows when I can do barbell rows which translates to the deadlift a helluva lot more. If I'm bodybuilding, then maybe I would do lighter weight cable rows to work on a weakness.

Regarding the EZ bar, you can do that on a normal bench (doesn't have to be on a decline) since you're not locking it out. It's short half movement nose breaker/close grip BP where your biceps/forearms can slow the momentum and take some pressure off the elbows. Try some lighter weight to get the movement down before going heavy. As for regular decline overload, it's effective for tri's because it's taking some regular delt/pectoral recruitment out of the movement which will activate the tri's more. Another thing I'll do (if I don't have weights) is to do many pushups with a slingshot, which forces your triceps to work much harder since it takes a good deal of delt out of the movement.

Well, let's be clear- I'm not looking to be a power lifter. I've seen the "power lifters" in my gym. They are either kind of just... fat and bulky but really strong, or pretty much normal looking, not lean at all, but still pretty strong (for their weight).

I would rather bench 225 and look great, than 315, but look like everybody else. I'm not going to powerlift in any comps, and I'm not a pro athlete, so my idea of functional strength probably isn't the same as yours. If I can join the double body weight DL club, that would be a cool goal to meet, but I won't beat myself up if I can't.


I'm pretty aware that I will get "more bang for my buck" doing compound, free weight stuff. That's always my priority. Something like shrugs or farmers walks, can never be done or replicated well on a machine, so I will always do those for my traps. Lately though, because of wrist pain for example, I've really kind of gravitated toward machines for tricep stuff. I can use bars which put me in less of a pronated position, which just feels better. Although I am going to experiment with the EZ curl bar tomorrow.

For the record, today was shoulder day, and everything was free weight. Still got a good pump in.

 

[Zivic]

350 pause benchpress is nothing? People @200lbs, let's see how many in the country can do it. At 2014 USAPL Nationals in Colorado, 21 out of 78 who competed at 90kg could do at least 350 - this is the best of the best in the country. That's 27%. You should show em how it's done big boy. You weigh around 200. Go show em how strong you are. The only problem with this is even if you could pull off a 350 pause bench, you'd be embarrassed in the other 2 lifts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JkOGUpETIAILjSvnFhmOMb8Hud5IlGdveJXt43USB7g/edit#gid=0


Nothing with a cable will ever replace the big 3. Bodybuilding is where strength athletes go to retire and talk about the good old days when they could bench 350, or squat or deadlift 500. It's all talk.

You just don't get it.
@220 I was tripling 465 on the bench. Doing 500 for 5+ reps on squats.
Could I do that now? Probably not, but then again I haven't actually bench pressed in 6-8 months, and haven't legitimately done back sqauts in months either (front, hack and goblet squats are my preference).

You keep thinking you are strong and the bb is easier than pushing weight. Ive lifted for both reasons rather than listening to a coach or read some bs online... I've done it. Like I said, build a physique bigger/leaner than I have or push more weight than I have and maybe then you'll have an ounce of credibility. Don't believe my numbers, I don't really give a sh1t. I do what I do for me and have had more success at moving weight and building massive Tris and bis than 99.99999% ever will. I don't do it for online recognition, or chasing some bs trophy

 

[SP33Demon]

Well, let's be clear- I'm not looking to be a power lifter. I've seen the "power lifters" in my gym. They are either kind of just... fat and bulky but really strong, or pretty much normal looking, not lean at all, but still pretty strong (for their weight).

I would rather bench 225 and look great, than 315, but look like everybody else. I'm not going to powerlift in any comps, and I'm not a pro athlete, so my idea of functional strength probably isn't the same as yours. If I can join the double body weight DL club, that would be a cool goal to meet, but I won't beat myself up if I can't.


I'm pretty aware that I will get "more bang for my buck" doing compound, free weight stuff. That's always my priority. Something like shrugs or farmers walks, can never be done or replicated well on a machine, so I will always do those for my traps. Lately though, because of wrist pain for example, I've really kind of gravitated toward machines for tricep stuff. I can use bars which put me in less of a pronated position, which just feels better. Although I am going to experiment with the EZ curl bar tomorrow.

For the record, today was shoulder day, and everything was free weight. Still got a good pump in.

Are you using wrist wraps? Use them if you're in pain until you can figure out what part of your form is causing said pain. Or until your wrist gets strong enough where they're not necessary.

If you want to look good and go light, then cables are fine. Powerlifting isn't for everyone, it's only for those who have the will to constantly reject fear to do things you never thought your body could do. For example, I didn't even like squatting a year ago and now my goal is 500 and it's my favorite lift. The human body is amazing in its ability to adapt to environmental stressors.

 

[SP33Demon]

You just don't get it.
@220 I was tripling 465 on the bench. Doing 500 for 5+ reps on squats.
Could I do that now? Probably not, but then again I haven't actually bench pressed in 6-8 months, and haven't legitimately done back sqauts in months either (front, hack and goblet squats are my preference).

You keep thinking you are strong and the bb is easier than pushing weight. Ive lifted for both reasons rather than listening to a coach or read some bs online... I've done it. Like I said, build a physique bigger/leaner than I have or push more weight than I have and maybe then you'll have an ounce of credibility. Don't believe my numbers, I don't really give a sh1t. I do what I do for me and have had more success at moving weight and building massive Tris and bis than 99.99999% ever will. I don't do it for online recognition, or chasing some bs trophy

Yes, and once I banged Giselle and she flew me home in her private jet. I can say I did this, or I could post evidence. If you don't have evidence, then it's fairy tales. Oh, and you have massive tri's and bi's that 99.99999% ever will? Then where are your bodybuilding awards, and have you ever competed in anything ever? I can email you pics of my 1st place finish over the summer, or a vid of 450 squat from this week. You can't claim to be special when you haven't done shit yet. That's the problem with this country, everyone thinks they're special snowflakes but don't have the balls to put their ego on the line against others. They're happy being the best lifter in their mind at some shitty Planet Fitness but fold like a lawn chair when it comes to a challenge.

 

[HitAnyKey]

Free Weights all the way whenever possible. Don't forget the basics like the Pullup / Chin raises and Dips. There are exceptions and your body will tell you. Don't be afraid to ask for a spot. We all in there in to get er done.

LOL @ the 350lb Bench Press. Guys, put it away and go back to your corners and give me 20.

 

[sardines]

I don’t have huge lifting numbers and most likely weak compared to most people replying but my Pa told me when i was a wee lad that free weights build bone mass and strengthens tendons much more than machines. My dad is into his 70's and has trained all his life so i tend to belive him. There is heaps on the net about it and if you follow scooby he has a blog about this issue of free weights VS machines

http://scoobysworkshop.com/can-i-get-huge-with-home-workouts/

 

[z1ggy]

Are you using wrist wraps? Use them if you're in pain until you can figure out what part of your form is causing said pain. Or until your wrist gets strong enough where they're not necessary.

If you want to look good and go light, then cables are fine. Powerlifting isn't for everyone, it's only for those who have the will to constantly reject fear to do things you never thought your body could do. For example, I didn't even like squatting a year ago and now my goal is 500 and it's my favorite lift. The human body is amazing in its ability to adapt to environmental stressors.

No wraps because I just don't feel the weight I'm using justifies them. Hopefully I'll be repping 225 on the bench by summer/fall, so I'll probably need them then. I also need to invest in some damn chalk... Been doing my farmers now with 80 or 85's and I just can't grip them well because of my sweaty hands.

The thing is about power lifting vs bodybuilding/aesthetics is that for me, I get more satisfaction when I look in the mirror and feel good about how I look, rather than tossing on tons of weight and doing some lift.

I just don't want to turn into that guy that lifts a lot of weight, but doesn't look it. All the "crossfitters" who lift in my gym, do not have impressive physiques at all. This bro who comes in, DL's 405, clean 225.... Looks less muscular than I do (and he's my size), and I max DL about 265 right now.

Not saying your wrong, I think being able to push one's self is something good. I'd just rather push myself to look as best I can. I of course want to be strong for my weight, but that naturally will come with increasing muscle mass.

 

[Zivic]

Yes, and once I banged Giselle and she flew me home in her private jet. I can say I did this, or I could post evidence. If you don't have evidence, then it's fairy tales. Oh, and you have massive tri's and bi's that 99.99999% ever will? Then where are your bodybuilding awards, and have you ever competed in anything ever? I can email you pics of my 1st place finish over the summer, or a vid of 450 squat from this week. You can't claim to be special when you haven't done shit yet. That's the problem with this country, everyone thinks they're special snowflakes but don't have the balls to put their ego on the line against others. They're happy being the best lifter in their mind at some shitty Planet Fitness but fold like a lawn chair when it comes to a challenge.

Do you really think I care if some wannabe on the net believes me? I never really cared enough to take video at the time. If I did care, I probably would have competed in a powerlifting meet. I did two power meets at my highschool way back when. I have two first place trophies from them I could take pics of and post up if I cold find them. I am trying to think back to what i pushed at them, it was like 315-320 at a sub 200 lbs. I have a few clips of me repping in the mid 300's, but big deal.

I have no disillusion about what I have done. I don't fairy tale things. I look at what I am now physically/aesthetically as a much bigger accomplishment than whatever I benched or squatted. so for you to say I'm a lying about something I don't really put much emphasis on doesn't break my heart

as far as accepting your challenge, If you really care and are in my area (St Paul, MN) shoot me a PM and we can meet up and train. You can tell me how small my arms are in person and I can laugh at how much you bench. I have a pretty open schedule for the month of Feb.

just a little FYI for the novice (ignorant) out there; it takes more than big arms to be a competitive bodybuilder. I don't consider myself a bodybuilder. I am a guy that trains with weights that some say may look like a bodybuilder

 

[Zivic]

The thing is about power lifting vs bodybuilding/aesthetics is that for me, I get more satisfaction when I look in the mirror and feel good about how I look, rather than tossing on tons of weight and doing some lift.

here is my take on it. power lifting; you are only as good as your next lift. You will sacrifice your health/waistline to move more weight. obviously some powerlifters are lean, but let's just say that isn't really the norm.

if you train more for building size (bodybuilding style) you carry the look with you 24 hrs a day. For SP33D it would be like carrying his 1st place trophy with him all the time. Some might cover it in sweats, it's always there. Does it mean you give up being the very strongest you could be? sure, but that doesn't mean you are weak.

powerlifting is like a sprint. work really hard, then relax, eat a bucket of chicken and a drink a few beers

bodybuilding is more like a marathon. You still work really hard in the gym, but the 22 hrs outside of the gym are much more critical to what you are trying to accomplish. You have to be on point with all aspects of your life. much more so than if you are solely lifting for strength

I find lifting for strength much easier than training the way I do now. The workouts were much easier. Diet is much less critical because if you put on a few pounds it likely didn't matter much, even if you competed.

maybe when I get older, I'll fall back into the powerlifting scene.

 

[SP33Demon]

Do you really think I care if some wannabe on the net believes me? I never really cared enough to take video at the time. If I did care, I probably would have competed in a powerlifting meet. I did two power meets at my highschool way back when. I have two first place trophies from them I could take pics of and post up if I cold find them. I am trying to think back to what i pushed at them, it was like 315-320 at a sub 200 lbs. I have a few clips of me repping in the mid 300's, but big deal.

I have no disillusion about what I have done. I don't fairy tale things. I look at what I am now physically/aesthetically as a much bigger accomplishment than whatever I benched or squatted. so for you to say I'm a lying about something I don't really put much emphasis on doesn't break my heart

as far as accepting your challenge, If you really care and are in my area (St Paul, MN) shoot me a PM and we can meet up and train. You can tell me how small my arms are in person and I can laugh at how much you bench. I have a pretty open schedule for the month of Feb.

just a little FYI for the novice (ignorant) out there; it takes more than big arms to be a competitive bodybuilder. I don't consider myself a bodybuilder. I am a guy that trains with weights that some say may look like a bodybuilder

It's be fun to train together, sure. My main point of the post is that if you really feel that you are in the top .0001% of genetics, then wouldn't you like to test that theory against other who think the same thing? I don't make any claims to be the best powerlifter, am probably in the top 25% of my weight class (over all ages). Maybe in the top 5-10% if you added everyday guys to the pool.

 

[SP33Demon]

here is my take on it. power lifting; you are only as good as your next lift. You will sacrifice your health/waistline to move more weight. obviously some powerlifters are lean, but let's just say that isn't really the norm.

if you train more for building size (bodybuilding style) you carry the look with you 24 hrs a day. For SP33D it would be like carrying his 1st place trophy with him all the time. Some might cover it in sweats, it's always there. Does it mean you give up being the very strongest you could be? sure, but that doesn't mean you are weak.

powerlifting is like a sprint. work really hard, then relax, eat a bucket of chicken and a drink a few beers

bodybuilding is more like a marathon. You still work really hard in the gym, but the 22 hrs outside of the gym are much more critical to what you are trying to accomplish. You have to be on point with all aspects of your life. much more so than if you are solely lifting for strength

I find lifting for strength much easier than training the way I do now. The workouts were much easier. Diet is much less critical because if you put on a few pounds it likely didn't matter much, even if you competed.

maybe when I get older, I'll fall back into the powerlifting scene.

I agree that powerlifters don't really watch what they eat, especially heavyweights. I've been pretty hardcore about diet (almost always eat the same thing for breakfast/dinner) but some of my team members, ehh. They drink, eat cookies, pizza, etc. I used to not care (some of my posts from even a year ago where I talk about casual drinking), but I want to coach someday so my body is part of my advertising, so to speak. Why would someone want to pay you if you look like a fatass!

 

[Zivic]

It's be fun to train together, sure. My main point of the post is that if you really feel that you are in the top .0001% of genetics, then wouldn't you like to test that theory against other who think the same thing? I don't make any claims to be the best powerlifter, am probably in the top 25% of my weight class (over all ages). Maybe in the top 5-10% if you added everyday guys to the pool.

I don't know if I have .0001% genetics, more so I think I have a better work ethic and consistency than 99.9999% of people out there. that said, I have decent genetics.

Why don't I "test" my theory? because I don't need the validation. I know what want out of my training and it isn't some trophy. I don't need a show or meet to keep me motivated. I have trained for 20 yrs. this isn't something I am doing for 3rd party recognition. I see and know people that train for shows and it isn't something I care to do. I have also trained with power lifters that have competed, also not something I ever wanted or needed. if you want to know my honest (arrogant) answer it's because I was already stronger than those that competed in power lifting (at least bench wise) and looked better than those that competed in shows -> understand that "looks" are subjective and what I like, and think looks good, in a build isn't necessarily what a show judge is looking for.

^^^ all that said I know there is a whole other level of strength and physique that I likely will never reach -> always someone bigger, stronger, better looking, more money ...etc I never claimed to be the best, but I will claim that I am better the most when it comes to weights and training

if you need a trophy to tell you how great you are.... well, umm I guess that's what makes us different.

 

[Zivic]

I agree that powerlifters don't really watch what they eat, especially heavyweights. I've been pretty hardcore about diet (almost always eat the same thing for breakfast/dinner) but some of my team members, ehh. They drink, eat cookies, pizza, etc. I used to not care (some of my posts from even a year ago where I talk about casual drinking), but I want to coach someday so my body is part of my advertising, so to speak. Why would someone want to pay you if you look like a fatass!

do you weigh your food? track your calories, fat, carbs, protein?

I have people ask me all the time about what I eat.... they usually say, "yeah, I am strict with my diet too. I eat a lot of chicken and stuff." to which I reply," how much chicken?" "well.... a lot. and I eat salads"

if you aren't weighing/measuring/tracking your portions and knowing exactly how much you are eating, you aren't really being 'that' strict or hardcore with your diet.

today as of 6 pm:
4 large eggs
240 gams of jasmine rice
3 tbsp coffee creamer
1 large banana (120 grams)
74 grams of dymatize protein
6.5 oz chicken breast
6.5 oz 93/7 ground beef
_________________
1766 calories - 51 fat / 143 carb / 182 protein

 

[z1ggy]

How's that jasmine rice treating you? I just picked some up instead of brown (I hate how long that crap takes to cook). Good flavor? Or is it bland.

 

[Zivic]

How's that jasmine rice treating you? I just picked some up instead of brown (I hate how long that crap takes to cook). Good flavor? Or is it bland.

jasmine is awesome. I like brown as well, but I won't have a solid sh!t if I eat it on a daily basis. Jasmine is an aromatic sweet rice. it really is good.

I hear ya on the cooking time with the brown. I bought a Zojirushi cooker. it will take 3 hrs if I set it to gaba.

if you don't have a decent cooker, definitely worth the money
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[SP33Demon]

Zivic, medals and awards are important if you want to coach. How can you prove you actually have the experience to prep someone for a meet if you've never done one? I figure 10+ meets under my belt should be enough, in conjunction with having a world class strongman as a mentor. I agree that if you're just happy with how you look, then you probably don't need to compete.

Regarding diet, yes I'm hardcore about it. I eat 7 eggs and 30 almonds (1oz) every morning. At night, I eat a can of olive oil sardines and roughly 100grams of brown rice + a protein shake and about 5-6 pieces of small frozen organic fruit pieces if I get sugar cravings (mango, pineapple, strawberries mixed). Lunch is my variable meal, but I stick with the rule of a lot of meat and at least one estrogen blocking veggie (usually broccoli, cabbage, or radishes). I'll add a carb like bread or rice + beans as well. Since lunch is my sanity meal, I don't weigh them individually but it usually comes to 1.5 to 2 lbs of food (cost is per lb where I eat) and I eat what I want as long as it doesn't have sugar. If I'm cutting 5 lbs or so for a meet, usually just removing carbs for lunch and fruit at night is enough over a 2 week span. All in all, while I'm not ripped (17-20% bodyfat range), people still notice my physique, especially in compression shirts.

Z1ggy, I would check out $26 http://www.amazon.com/Aroma-Cooked-D.../dp/B007WQ9YNO for cooking brown rice - 4.5 stars over 2400 reviews and I like it. It takes about an hour for 1 cup which isn't bad. If you make 4 cups (1.5-2 hours) you'll have rice for the whole week. A trick when reheating brown rice in the microwave is to sprinkle it with some water (while in the bowl), then cover with a paper towel. After a couple minutes, it will resteam the rice and it comes back out fluffy.

 

[z1ggy]

jasmine is awesome. I like brown as well, but I won't have a solid sh!t if I eat it on a daily basis. Jasmine is an aromatic sweet rice. it really is good.

I hear ya on the cooking time with the brown. I bought a Zojirushi cooker. it will take 3 hrs if I set it to gaba.

if you don't have a decent cooker, definitely worth the money
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Okay thanks. Does the jasmine cook more like white or brown?

Z1ggy, I would check out $26 http://www.amazon.com/Aroma-Cooked-D.../dp/B007WQ9YNO for cooking brown rice - 4.5 stars over 2400 reviews and I like it. It takes about an hour for 1 cup which isn't bad. If you make 4 cups (1.5-2 hours) you'll have rice for the whole week. A trick when reheating brown rice in the microwave is to sprinkle it with some water (while in the bowl), then cover with a paper towel. After a couple minutes, it will resteam the rice and it comes back out fluffy.

Hmmm okay I will check that out, too. I guess for now I can just stick with my crappy method on stove top.

 

[Zivic]

Zivic, medals and awards are important if you want to coach. How can you prove you actually have the experience to prep someone for a meet if you've never done one? I figure 10+ meets under my belt should be enough, in conjunction with having a world class strongman as a mentor. I agree that if you're just happy with how you look, then you probably don't need to compete.

if you compete in a 100+ meets it doesn't mean you are qualified to coach. if you never competed it doesn't mean you aren't qualified to coach.

All the certs and meets and trophies are kind of BS. Granted I have no desire to coach/prep/train/instruct others. I feel if they want it bad enough, they will do it on their own. there is SO much info out there at their finger tips, why pay for it? in addition, I have seen a lot of terrible trainers/coaches. I figure your chances of success are about the same whether you go it solo or with a paid coach.

don't take this the wrong way if I look at your first place trophies I would have to ask, what kind of weight did you move.? if you tell me I benched 350, I'd stop you right there, giggle a little and look for a new coach.

how else can one prove what they are? look at their physique and watch them train...

 

[Zivic]

Okay thanks. Does the jasmine cook more like white or brown?



Hmmm okay I will check that out, too. I guess for now I can just stick with my crappy method on stove top.

if you buy a cooker, your stove top method will seem like cooking over a camp fire in the middle of the woods.

jasmine is just basically white rice. in my cooker, I put in 3 cups of rice, fill with water to the line, push a button and it 25 minutes or so, it beeps, and out comes delightfully perfect rice. The cooker will keep it warm for the rest of the day as well.

 

[SP33Demon]

if you compete in a 100+ meets it doesn't mean you are qualified to coach. if you never competed it doesn't mean you aren't qualified to coach.

All the certs and meets and trophies are kind of BS. Granted I have no desire to coach/prep/train/instruct others. I feel if they want it bad enough, they will do it on their own. there is SO much info out there at their finger tips, why pay for it? in addition, I have seen a lot of terrible trainers/coaches. I figure your chances of success are about the same whether you go it solo or with a paid coach.

don't take this the wrong way if I look at your first place trophies I would have to ask, what kind of weight did you move.? if you tell me I benched 350, I'd stop you right there, giggle a little and look for a new coach.

how else can one prove what they are? look at their physique and watch them train...

Let's just say I have 3 people who are already asking to be trained. I am working on having a mini-gym built with platforms. This is just the beginning, I'll probably expand my roster once I advertise more. In my first place finish, I benched only around 275 but squatted around 400 and deadlifted around 450. Not huge numbers, but still better than anyone there that day for my weight class and only my 2nd meet. BTW, you get at least a participation medal for every meet you do. My wall will soon be filled up with medals regardless of what place I finish. If business for powerlifting isn't where I need it to be, I can always switch to fat loss and conditioning. You may think you can do better or the same as with a coach, but the reality is that when they are there watching/commanding the average person to lift, clients then have a lot more motivation than if they're by themselves. They can get instant feedback on their form. They can whine about their injuries and/or victories. They can ask questions. It's a social experience, much like why crossfail is so popular. You aren't a boss until you pass your knowledge onto others and get paid to do it.

 

[RagingBITCH]

if you buy a cooker, your stove top method will seem like cooking over a camp fire in the middle of the woods.

jasmine is just basically white rice. in my cooker, I put in 3 cups of rice, fill with water to the line, push a button and it 25 minutes or so, it beeps, and out comes delightfully perfect rice. The cooker will keep it warm for the rest of the day as well.

You're not worried about the high GI of white rice? As an Asian guy, I used to love the hell out of some white rice, and the past few years, brown. But I can attest to your "solidarity" issues with brown rice.

(I have nothing else to add to this convo, as it's been fun watching the flames go back and forth)

 

[Zivic]

You're not worried about the high GI of white rice? As an Asian guy, I used to love the hell out of some white rice, and the past few years, brown. But I can attest to your "solidarity" issues with brown rice.

(I have nothing else to add to this convo, as it's been fun watching the flames go back and forth)

if I ate it on it's own, I probably would. but I found If I eat it with protein and fat, I have found it to be no different than brown rice. I usually only eat it twice a day, and a 100-120 grams per time. one time with 3-4 whole eggs and one time with chicken.

at the end of the day, your calories are a bigger factor than subbing in white rice vs brown rice

 

[Zivic]

Let's just say I have 3 people who are already asking to be trained. I am working on having a mini-gym built with platforms. This is just the beginning, I'll probably expand my roster once I advertise more. In my first place finish, I benched only around 275 but squatted around 400 and deadlifted around 450. Not huge numbers, but still better than anyone there that day for my weight class and only my 2nd meet. BTW, you get at least a participation medal for every meet you do. My wall will soon be filled up with medals regardless of what place I finish. If business for powerlifting isn't where I need it to be, I can always switch to fat loss and conditioning. You may think you can do better or the same as with a coach, but the reality is that when they are there watching/commanding the average person to lift, clients then have a lot more motivation than if they're by themselves. They can get instant feedback on their form. They can whine about their injuries and/or victories. They can ask questions. It's a social experience, much like why crossfail is so popular. You aren't a boss until you pass your knowledge onto others and get paid to do it.

I guess the way I look at it is I know a heck of a lot more than most trainers/coaches I see out there and if I were to start over, no way would I pay a guy like me to coach/train me.

like I said, if you can only squat 400, why would someone pay you train them to move big weight? and on the flip side, you can have experts that never really moved any weight. I don't think there is any good way to figure out what you are getting in a coach or trainer unless you look at their physique and watch them train. You could look at their other clients, but that isn't all telling.... they could be genetic freaks, insanely hard workers or both.

I just fall back on the mentality that if a person wants it bad enough, they don't need a trainer or coach for them to succeed. I think one is better off surrounding yourself with people of slightly higher strength levels that work at least as hard as you do. My training partner at the time I was my strongest was a bit stronger than I was on the squats and i was stronger than him on the bench. it worked well for us because he wanted a bigger bench where as I wanted a bigger squat. it got the point where we looked at each other when we were both pushing 450+ on bench and 500+ on squats and said "now what?" Shortly after he started drinking a little more than he should have, had a mental break, spent some time in a facility and I went on training on my own.

you do what you need to do, but reading what you post I feel like you are a true novice. You have a lot to learn. I am not saying that in a degrading or negative way, but your focus seems skewed. you chase participation medals and trophies that really at the end of the day mean nothing. You tell yourself they do, but they don't. if you want to be strong, be strong... and that doesn't have to mean placing in some meet where your strongest competitor can't push 250 or squat 400. How meaningful is that trophy?

You can say I am full of sh!t about the weights I say I pushed. I have people all the time fill me full of sh!t about how strong they used to be. I can watch them do one lift and know if they have an ounce of credibility. I was the guy at the gym that people flocked to. people would see me load up the bar and stay and watch -> thinking this kid is going to kill himself with that weight. Then I would do it 5-6 times. if people would talk sh!t about how strong they were I would tell them, you pick the lift, load up your max, and whatever you can do for a single, I will do 3 times. heck, I used to rep 265+ for military, it would be funny watching guys struggle for a single or double on a 250 bench and I would be repping it out for a military.

I remember training with guys that competed. we would load up the bench, ramping up the weights, guys would jump in and out. I would do a few at 185, then 225, then 275... then we got to 315 and guys were starting to put their bench shirts on others were doing singles and doubles for working sets. I would hop in rep off 3-4 guys would give me a look. weight would go up by 10s, so I'd waitt till we got to 350, do another acclimation set of a couple reps..... most guys were done by this point. Then they would finally ask, how much you gonna do? Part of me wanted to load up as much weight as I could, while another part of me just wanted to see what the strongest guy there could do and then throw on 5's and do that. yeah, that's cool and it fed my ego, but when I went home, who really cared if I out lifted 6 -8 guys at the gym that day? what's the difference from that experience and going to a meet? a judge saying 'good lift' and giving me a participation medal? It did keep me motivated to a point. Maybe it's more challenging for you to move weight than it is for me to look the way I do. I get more satisfaction from how I feel in the gym and how I look training the way I train now, vs when I was really strong.


/rant

 

[SP33Demon]

I guess the way I look at it is I know a heck of a lot more than most trainers/coaches I see out there and if I were to start over, no way would I pay a guy like me to coach/train me.

like I said, if you can only squat 400, why would someone pay you train them to move big weight? and on the flip side, you can have experts that never really moved any weight. I don't think there is any good way to figure out what you are getting in a coach or trainer unless you look at their physique and watch them train. You could look at their other clients, but that isn't all telling.... they could be genetic freaks, insanely hard workers or both.

I just fall back on the mentality that if a person wants it bad enough, they don't need a trainer or coach for them to succeed. I think one is better off surrounding yourself with people of slightly higher strength levels that work at least as hard as you do. My training partner at the time I was my strongest was a bit stronger than I was on the squats and i was stronger than him on the bench. it worked well for us because he wanted a bigger bench where as I wanted a bigger squat. it got the point where we looked at each other when we were both pushing 450+ on bench and 500+ on squats and said "now what?" Shortly after he started drinking a little more than he should have, had a mental break, spent some time in a facility and I went on training on my own.

you do what you need to do, but reading what you post I feel like you are a true novice. You have a lot to learn. I am not saying that in a degrading or negative way, but your focus seems skewed. you chase participation medals and trophies that really at the end of the day mean nothing. You tell yourself they do, but they don't. if you want to be strong, be strong... and that doesn't have to mean placing in some meet where your strongest competitor can't push 250 or squat 400. How meaningful is that trophy?

You can say I am full of sh!t about the weights I say I pushed. I have people all the time fill me full of sh!t about how strong they used to be. I can watch them do one lift and know if they have an ounce of credibility. I was the guy at the gym that people flocked to. people would see me load up the bar and stay and watch -> thinking this kid is going to kill himself with that weight. Then I would do it 5-6 times. if people would talk sh!t about how strong they were I would tell them, you pick the lift, load up your max, and whatever you can do for a single, I will do 3 times. heck, I used to rep 265+ for military, it would be funny watching guys struggle for a single or double on a 250 bench and I would be repping it out for a military.

I remember training with guys that competed. we would load up the bench, ramping up the weights, guys would jump in and out. I would do a few at 185, then 225, then 275... then we got to 315 and guys were starting to put their bench shirts on others were doing singles and doubles for working sets. I would hop in rep off 3-4 guys would give me a look. weight would go up by 10s, so I'd waitt till we got to 350, do another acclimation set of a couple reps..... most guys were done by this point. Then they would finally ask, how much you gonna do? Part of me wanted to load up as much weight as I could, while another part of me just wanted to see what the strongest guy there could do and then throw on 5's and do that. yeah, that's cool and it fed my ego, but when I went home, who really cared if I out lifted 6 -8 guys at the gym that day? what's the difference from that experience and going to a meet? a judge saying 'good lift' and giving me a participation medal? It did keep me motivated to a point. Maybe it's more challenging for you to move weight than it is for me to look the way I do. I get more satisfaction from how I feel in the gym and how I look training the way I train now, vs when I was really strong.
/rant

Here's what you should do, next time you bench, do a one second pause, have your buddy say "Press" and see how high you can go. Tape it. Post it here. You should still be able to do a 350 pause if you were doing 450 like you claim, you don't lose that much from a genetics standpoint and you're still working out bodybuilding so you're in shape. A pause bench is a completely different neural motor pathway which is why only 1 in 4 of the best of the best at Nationals @90kg this year can hit 350+.

Anyway, I'll be close to a 500 squat by the end of this year and 20-50 lbs lighter than when you did it. At the same age as you. And filmed. Haters gonna hate, don't be mad because you never had the guts to coach and get paid to do it at a young age. Hell, my mentor is only 32 and he has a full client list. I find it silly that someone can opine on something they no idea about (what it takes to even complete a meet) let alone the training that leads up to a meet (which is definitely different than regular training) nor procedural events during a meet.

 

[Zivic]

Here's what you should do, next time you bench, do a one second pause, have your buddy say "Press" and see how high you can go. Tape it. Post it here. You should still be able to do a 350 pause if you were doing 450 like you claim, you don't lose that much from a genetics standpoint and you're still working out bodybuilding so you're in shape. A pause bench is a completely different neural motor pathway which is why only 1 in 4 of the best of the best at Nationals @90kg this year can hit 350+.

Anyway, I'll be close to a 500 squat by the end of this year and 20-50 lbs lighter than when you did it. At the same age as you. And filmed. Haters gonna hate, don't be mad because you never had the guts to coach and get paid to do it at a young age. Hell, my mentor is only 32 and he has a full client list. I find it silly that someone can opine on something they no idea about (what it takes to even complete a meet) let alone the training that leads up to a meet (which is definitely different than regular training) nor procedural events during a meet.

you think i'm hating?

I could care less if you bench, squat, curl or crossfit more than I do at half my bodyweight. I don't bench anymore. I squat vastly different now than I did when I went for strength. I do pull deads with a little weight every couple weeks. I don't even know the weights I move anymore. I just add weight till it feels like enough. I'm definitely not hating. That would imply that I somehow envy what you have done. My point with the long rambling last post was I didn't need specific training. I didn't need to pay anyone. I could walk in cold, and out bench and possibly out squat those that competed. I'm not stupid I understand a gym lift 'can' vary from a meet lift. I know a pause rep vs touch and go. I'm not the average dipshit you see in the gym thinking he benches or squats a lot. heck, part of the reason I never competed is because I didn't want deadlift. just never liked doing it, so I didn't.... I didn't care enough to compete. that doesn't mean I am ignorant to the what goes on in meets.

now that I sit here and type this, it is kind of the same reason I haven't used gear... I was stronger than those that I knew that competed (used gear) so why did I need either one?

I only laugh at the fact that you somehow think it makes you better,,,,, er more legit because you have a some guying saying good lift. You keep doing what makes you happy and I'll keep working on arms.

edit
as far as building a client list, hope it goes well for you. I'm sure I could get a cert and build a client base as well. Because it's your boyhood dream to have someone pay you for your vast lifting knowledge, doesn't mean everyone else that steps in the weight room has the same dream. Much like how people don't all desire to have a build like mine.

if you want to see me bench, come up to my area, there's a planet fitness about 25 minutes from my house we can hit up