Fraudulent charge on credit card?

[gorcorps]

I really hope they start putting the mobile pay readers on gas pumps. I'd like to use my phone where I can but I've only seen them in stores. Does anybody know if gas stations have even bothered doing this yet?

 

[rudeguy]

I really hope they start putting the mobile pay readers on gas pumps. I'd like to use my phone where I can but I've only seen them in stores. Does anybody know if gas stations have even bothered doing this yet?

I tried one over the weekend, it didn't work. I also tried a pop machine that didn't work.

There is a ton of backend stuff that needs to happen for them to work and I'm guessing its taking longer for those to come online.

 

[kranky]

I heard without Chip and PIN that Chip provides no extra security.

It can. IIRC it prevents a card from being duplicated with a swipe because the chip can't be copied also. So if a scammer copies the mag stripe on a card that also has a chip, AND tries to use that copied card in a POS terminal that detects that mag stripe belongs to a card that also has a chip, the POS terminal can require the chip be put in the machine. No chip, no sale.

The weakness is that the POS terminals can be chip-ready, but programmed to accept just a swipe.

 

[Rakehellion]

It can. IIRC it prevents a card from being duplicated with a swipe because the chip can't be copied also. So if a scammer copies the mag stripe on a card that also has a chip, AND tries to use that copied card in a POS terminal that detects that mag stripe belongs to a card that also has a chip, the POS terminal can require the chip be put in the machine. No chip, no sale.

The weakness is that the POS terminals can be chip-ready, but programmed to accept just a swipe.

The chip can be copied, but not with a swipe. It's only a matter of time before chip skimmers are commonplace.

 

[Muse]

So yesterday I got a call and email from AMEX fraud protection saying that they declined a charge of $500 at a big-box baby products retail store.

Same thing happened to me around a year ago, but the charges were at a store on the other side of the country. I have no idea how they got my Chase Freedom CC#. They told me that a $500 charge was made at a big box store online and when it went through, another $500 was attempted a few minutes later at the same store, which was declined. They said that 2 days later they attempted to pay for pizza (~$20 charge), at a shop in the same area, and that it was declined. Later, the accepted/declined stories changed, but I only pursued it so far. I didn't take a hit. Evidently it was never really investigated, never went to law enforcement. They told me I could call my local police department and open a case or some such but figured why bother, they wouldn't do anything.

 

[Muse]

someone stole it while you were sleeping and then put it back. what else could have happened? change your locks

CC#s are in databases, and I assume many many databases, all over the place. There's data encryption, but people can hack into systems at levels where the encryption is turned off, that's what happened to Sony a few months ago. And not all types of encryption are solid. I used to manage data that included CC#s and our encryption algorithm and technique in employing it wasn't iron clad by any means.

I figure that using my card isn't safe. There was a story not long ago about Home Depot having CC#s hacked. That wasn't Home Depot CC's, it was CC#'s used there, and I was among those, although I have no reason to believe that included my CC. I prefer to use Paypal when I have an option, that way I figure my CC# doesn't get on the company's server. I don't assume that Paypal is unhackable. The best protection is your CC company's assurance that they won't hold you accountable for fraud on your card. I've benefited from that a couple of times. I don't have an ATM card, I figure the risk isn't worth the meager value to me.

 

[Exterous]

They have, that's why all the cards are moving to chip. It's stupid it took this long, euro zone has been using it for far longer.

Chip and Pin cards can combat less than 40% of credit card fraud and that percentage is decreasing yearly.

Interestingly Americans have more Credit Cards than any other country (5.6 Billion) and lose them at a faster rate (17% of cards per year). Given that C&P cards cost at least 13x more you are talking about over $1.4bn extra spent per year in credit card replacements alone. That takes quite a dent out of the estimated $5.4bn in yearly fraud savings by moving to C&P. (FWIW the estimates vary. The Federal Reserve has it as low as $1.1bn in fraud savings so, according to their predictions, Banks would actually lose money by changing to C&P simply due to the increased cost of issuing replacement credit cards) Not to mention the one time cost of almost $7bn just to replace the existing cards and this hasn't even gotten to infrastructure change costs yet.

Given that the US has traditionally been a low risk CC fraud country it hasn't been until very recently that it has made even marginal economic sense to make the change. Even now it will take years to re-coup the cost of making the change to C&P (assuming the estimates are correct and it doesn't just move where the fraud takes place)

So looking at the economics of it it doesn't necessarily seem stupid to me

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/03/us-usa-cybersecurity-retail-insight-idUSKBN0LZ0GC20150303
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/01/21/the-economics-of-credit-card-security/

 

[bradly1101]

Someone in Texas got a hold of my card number and tried three times to use it at a gas station very recently. They let one transaction go through. I asked for an expedited replacement card and it came the next day.

 

[gorcorps]

I tried one over the weekend, it didn't work. I also tried a pop machine that didn't work.

There is a ton of backend stuff that needs to happen for them to work and I'm guessing its taking longer for those to come online.

I've used it successfully at Best Buy and Wallgreens. I've never been able to get the phone OR CCs to work on vending machines at work, so that's just a problem with those readers in general it seems.

 

[rudeguy]

I've used it successfully at Best Buy and Wallgreens. I've never been able to get the phone OR CCs to work on vending machines at work, so that's just a problem with those readers in general it seems.

Its actually not the readers, its the network behind them. That's a really simplified way of putting it but basically a lot of the processors haven't gotten on board. I looked into for a little bit to see if it was something our company would be interested in and there is too much to do to handle transactions with such small profit.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Much easier to grab someones trash bags after they leave for work and look for billing statements, receipts, tax info, and other information. Amazing what people throw away in the trash.

^ Totally agree with this statement.

Anything with so much as my name/street address/city, state zip gets shredded.

I have been a victim of fraud, however I ALWAYS catch it within 0-48 hrs because I check my Mint.com religiously. It happens. I use my credit cards religiously for cashback purposes. I laugh when places say cash only. I don't even carry cash anymore. But the point being, when you swipe your card there is always a chance some fraudster placed something to read your card info. Or the waiter wrote your information down. Or the waiter placed your card by the cash register and someone walked by and snapped a picture with their camera phone. The list goes on and on.

Any good credit card will recognize it, flag it/block it, and let you know before it even happens. But if not, they should IMMEDIATELY refund your money the moment you report it, without any "investigation" BS.

This is where good credit cards truly shine. It shouldn't be a big deal. As much as Mastercard/Visa dominate the credit card acceptance around the world, the 2 companies that have helped me the most (Fraud charges, chargebacks, overall customer service) has been Discover and AMEX. If I'm ever fishy about a Credit Card charge (IE: Cab charging my credit card, creepy driver) I ALWAYS toss it on the AMEX. They are awesome about chargebacks. One cab driver tried to fuck me over and tip himself $20+ after the fact.... He ended with nothing since it was a charge I didn't recognize

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The best protection is your CC company's assurance that they won't hold you accountable for fraud on your card. I've benefited from that a couple of times. I don't have an ATM card, I figure the risk isn't worth the meager value to me.

This xOver9000.

You are a moron if you use a debit card in your daily transactions. Seriously. You're a moron.

1) Using credit cards is using SOMEONE ELSES money. What does that mean? When your credit card gets stolen, the credit card lost money. You didn't lose money. What does that mean? It means the credit card company will fight tooth and nail to get THEIR money back. Now imagine it's on a debit card. That is YOUR money. Why would the bank/card company fight to get money that isn't even theirs?

2) There are plenty of protections listed for credit card transactions. Often times it specifically mentions you aren't protected with debit cards. Either way, they will not fight tooth and nail for your money.

3) If you can't balance your purchases and pay off your credit card month to month as your excuse for using an ATM debit card, then you have severe mental handicap issues. Sorry, that's not an excuse.

 

[gorcorps]

Its actually not the readers, its the network behind them. That's a really simplified way of putting it but basically a lot of the processors haven't gotten on board. I looked into for a little bit to see if it was something our company would be interested in and there is too much to do to handle transactions with such small profit.

I see

lazy fuckerheads

 

[LTC8K6]

Please show me any credit card statement that would list the information necessary to make a fake card.

Yeah, it's been a long time since any CC paperwork had the full number on it. Just the last 4 digits.

 

[LTC8K6]

This xOver9000.

You are a moron if you use a debit card in your daily transactions. Seriously. You're a moron.

If it can also be used as a credit card, yes.

That's very dangerous.

I had a Visa debit card once. Never again.

I have a plain debit card that always requires a PIN. It can't be used as a credit card at all. It works in almost every retail store and gas station in my state.

I also have a regular credit card, for the few times I can't use the debit card in the local area, and for when I am away from home, or to order online.

 

[JoeBleed]

I'm not sure if/when the US will move to chip&pin. the cost of doing it is massive vs the cost of dealing with existing fraud. somewhere around 2010-2012 some students figured out how to bypass the pin code on stolen cards that have yet to be canceled. I haven't looked at current hacks available.

Before i went to Belgium on vacation last year, i requested a chip card from my CC company. Seems they only do chip with no pin. this seemed strange. The people i were visiting also thought it was very strange and seemed pointless. This led to some interesting confusion once when i used it. I'd gotten used to inserting it and then signing the receipt. I used it at one place and he didn't ask me for a signature. I asked him about it and being i only speak english and his wasn't that good, HE signed the receipt and gave it to me. I stood there for a few seconds, the friend i was with was as baffled. They could have translated, but we decided to just go. My guess is that it was such a small charge, even the signature wasn't required. I"m used to that here, but my friends had never seen anything like that. I was also not expecting to run into that there.

Strangely most of the people cashing me out were not used to the signature request from the terminal. You'd think they'd see this more as i ran into several Americans while there. Not sure about canadians and other non euro countries.

Will be interesting to see where it all goes. I've tried the NFC tap and pay terminals on vending machines, and as reported above, it hasn't worked. I have only seen the tap and pay terminals and one other place. there i just use cash and i don't go there often.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yeah, it's been a long time since any CC paperwork had the full number on it. Just the last 4 digits.

Off the top of my head - Every single one of my Chase Credit Cards has it in full (full CC#).

That Includes:
Chase Ink
Chase Sapphire
Chase Freedom
Chase Southwest Airlines

 

[WilliamM2]

Off the top of my head - Every single one of my Chase Credit Cards has it in full (full CC#).

That Includes:
Chase Ink
Chase Sapphire
Chase Freedom
Chase Southwest Airlines

Odd, I have 2 Chase cards, neither has the number fully displayed on the bill, or if you login online.

 

[mikeford]

Friend of mine emailed about a CC scam, made me paranoid ever since. How it works is that somebody that gets to handle a lot of credit cards buys a bunch of known bad canceled ones cheap and keeps the stash someplace handy. When you pay with your card they give you back one of the bad ones if they have a card that matches yours. Most people don't check to see if the card that matches their bank etc has their name on it, since the thief has physical possession many types of immediate purchases are possible, and the card holder won't know until they try and use the bad card, get the fraud call, or see the next statement.

Smartphone payments may be slow starting, but expect them to take off and the competition to be fierce due to the inherent lower cost per transaction.

 

[Exterous]

Odd, I have 2 Chase cards, neither has the number fully displayed on the bill, or if you login online.

Out of curiosity I looked at my statements and my Chase Sapphire Preferred card and both Southwest cards display the full account number. I was shredding my statements anyway so never really looked

 

[LTC8K6]

Off the top of my head - Every single one of my Chase Credit Cards has it in full (full CC#).

That Includes:
Chase Ink
Chase Sapphire
Chase Freedom
Chase Southwest Airlines

Never seen that. My personal and company cards don't.

Perhaps they only print it on the stub you send in, so the part that might be thrown away only has the last 4?

 

[Dulanic]

All cards are not moving to the chip.

OK well Visa & MC are doing a liability shift this year for the banks. If the banks don't update to chip, they assume 100% of the fraud liability, if the bank has chip and the merchant doesn't accept it, they assume 100% of the fraud liability. So are all? No, not right away and I don't know what Discover/AMEX are doing, but at least it's moving that way finally.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Odd, I have 2 Chase cards, neither has the number fully displayed on the bill, or if you login online.

Never seen that. My personal and company cards don't.

Perhaps they only print it on the stub you send in, so the part that might be thrown away only has the last 4?

Nope... for me it displays the full account # at the top of each statement. Of course, I do e-statements only at this point. But it's there.

for me it's in the top right corner, just under the box that shows the Payment Due Date / New Balance / Minimum Payment

 

[kranky]

I have a CC from a small credit union, and on the statements they use XXXX other than the last four digits....

except on the stub, where they print the full number at the bottom in MICR font with some other numbers on either side of the account number. Anyone could look at the payment stub, find the same 4 digits that are printed at the top, and back up 12 numbers to get the entire account number.

 

[cbrsurfr]

I had my Discover card compromised by using it at an Arby's. The teller at the drive-thru walked away with my card for about 5 minutes before returning it (way longer then necessary even if the register by the window was down). 2 days later Tiger Direct called me to say someone had ordered a PSP with it but the address didn't match what I had on file with Tiger. Since they already had my info they caught it before myself or my CC company. Quick call to Discover and they sent me a new card.