Frank wants total control of bailed out companies

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Frank wants control of the pay of all employees of bailed out companies and more...

I think this is crazy to try to impose this after the fact. I can see the justification for some of it, prior to agreeing to take the money, but many companies didn't want the money and I'm certain many wouldn't have taken it under these conditions.

I can see that if you took the money, you have to take the controls, but this is being done retroactively and it stinks, imo.

Especially since some companies and banks were forced to take the money.


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http://www.washingtonexaminer....r-Salary-42158597.html

It was nearly two weeks ago that the House of Representatives, acting in a near-frenzy after the disclosure of bonuses paid to executives of AIG, passed a bill that would impose a 90 percent retroactive tax on those bonuses. Despite the overwhelming 328-93 vote, support for the measure began to collapse almost immediately. Within days, the Obama White House backed away from it, as did the Senate Democratic leadership. The bill stalled, and the populist storm that spawned it seemed to pass.
But now, in a little-noticed move, the House Financial Services Committee, led by chairman Barney Frank, has approved a measure that would, in some key ways, go beyond the most draconian features of the original AIG bill. The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government. It would, like the tax measure, be retroactive, changing the terms of compensation agreements already in place. And it would give Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner extraordinary power to determine the pay of thousands of employees of American companies.

The purpose of the legislation is to "prohibit unreasonable and excessive compensation and compensation not based on performance standards," according to the bill's language. That includes regular pay, bonuses -- everything -- paid to employees of companies in whom the government has a capital stake, including those that have received funds through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

The measure is not limited just to those firms that received the largest sums of money, or just to the top 25 or 50 executives of those companies. It applies to all employees of all companies involved, for as long as the government is invested. And it would not only apply going forward, but also retroactively to existing contracts and pay arrangements of institutions that have already received funds.

In addition, the bill gives Geithner the authority to decide what pay is "unreasonable" or "excessive." And it directs the Treasury Department to come up with a method to evaluate "the performance of the individual executive or employee to whom the payment relates."

The bill passed the Financial Services Committee last week, 38 to 22, on a nearly party-line vote. (All Democrats voted for it, and all Republicans, with the exception of Reps. Ed Royce of California and Walter Jones of North Carolina, voted against it.)
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dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
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Yep, government is your pal. Now extend this to your health care and you can see why I and others are so adamant about keeping government out of healthcare. Once in, they can and will do anything including retroactive changes to tax code, employment contracts and anything else some Bureaucrat who has never actually run a company decides is best.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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It's one thing before in a "take it or leave it" sort of deal, but retroactive is grossly unacceptable. Frank continues to underwhelm, he's like a slimy weasel.
These people are flatout power crazed lunatics.
I agree and so do all the recent facts and numbers and legislation.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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If this gets through, it's a very bad sign, imo. You just can't bait and switch like that.

Many companies who wanted the money, probably would not have taken it under these conditions and to try to retroactively seize control like this is frightening.

For those that were told they had to take the money, this has got to be a shock.

You aren't supposed to be able to pass retroactive laws.

Congress should know this and the idea that they are trying it is worrying to me.

I agree with the idea of the government having some control if they bailed you out, but it should have been up front, not like this.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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And you guys kept making fun of me when I TOLD YOU what was coming. Barney Frank is stark raving mad, but Obama and Geithner agree with him.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
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How is that at all surprising?

Virtually all public organization and regulators aim to increase their size and influence.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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Here is a chance for Obama to impress. Put a stop to this retroactive control scheme.
 

Billb2

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2005
3,035
70
86
You're all wrong.

If the government doesn't step up to the plate and act as the shareholders that they are, the boards and CEOs of the bailed out companies will be running wild. They will be responsible to no one. If You think the bonuses and golden parashoots have been ridiculous so far, then what do you think they'd be like without the biggest shareholder's control?
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
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That's a standard requirement in all Chapter 11 (reorganization) bankruptcies-the bankruptcy judge has that authority.

It's also almost universal that major creditors have lots of standards built into their loan documents, including those against excessive compensation. Break those guidelines and your loan gets called due in full.

What Franks is callling for is hardly "total control" and is nearly universal for lenders in situations like the USA is in. I'd rather have the USA have this common power than have the sort of gold digging that is going on at AIG.

 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Originally posted by: Billb2
You're all wrong.

If the government doesn't step up to the plate and act as the shareholders that they are, the boards and CEOs of the bailed out companies will be running wild. They will be responsible to no one. If You think the bonuses and golden parashoots have been ridiculous so far, then what do you think they'd be like without the biggest shareholder's control?

You make too much money Mr. Regular Employee. I hereby limit you to 55,000 dollars a year and no more. According to my Geithner Chart on performance you will be unable to make any more. To get what you are worth and what you were being paid at 130,000 dollars a year you'll have to jump to another company.

Mass exodus of talent will ensue, total government control of "private" industry is only a heartbeat away. It's coming, guarantee it's coming. If you can't take the events of the last few weeks and see it...we'll then you're too far gone.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Billb2
You're all wrong.

If the government doesn't step up to the plate and act as the shareholders that they are, the boards and CEOs of the bailed out companies will be running wild. They will be responsible to no one. If You think the bonuses and golden parashoots have been ridiculous so far, then what do you think they'd be like without the biggest shareholder's control?
This is retroactive. Really no different than your boss calling you into his office and saying hey sorry I know you made $70k last year but really it should have been $50k. There were no accounting errors or anything, and I know HR paid those checks, but you just aren't worth it. You owe me $20k. And, yeah, I know that all your friends who work at other companies doing the same as you also made $70k, but we are just not doing well right now, so to us you're only worth $50k not only going forward but backward, too. Sorry.
That's a standard requirement in all Chapter 11 (reorganization) bankruptcies-the bankruptcy judge has that authority.
Chapter 11 can retroactively hit compensation?

I know we joke about retention bonuses and all that, but tell me what would motivate a bank employee at one of these banks who's in the upper echelons to hang around if even his pay check, let alone bonus, isn't protected? Without any secure knowledge about that, why would he stay if he has any option elsewhere?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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Billb2, as I said, I would agree as long as all of this was part of the deal upfront. If they knew about this and signed up for the bailout money anyway, then fine.

I strongly oppose attempts to add this retroactively.

I oppose it even more strongly for companies that were forced to take bailout funds.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
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That's a standard requirement in all Chapter 11 (reorganization) bankruptcies-the bankruptcy judge has that authority.

No, it is not standard to add this to a bankruptcy agreement retroactively, without consent of all parties.

Nobody declared chapter 11 anyway.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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i thought the idea was to save those company's and not drive them into the ground? does anyone really think good talent is going to stay with these companies with these rules and the history they already have?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: daniel49
Whens hunting season? Have cheny invite Frank and dodd out for the weekend.

Ahh with our luck Cheney would miss those two dumbasses and hit a duck instead.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Originally posted by: waggy
i thought the idea was to save those company's and not drive them into the ground? does anyone really think good talent is going to stay with these companies with these rules and the history they already have?

How else can you control private industry if you don't first destroy it?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
What exactly IS the fvcking point of this legislation, btw? Is it just to act as a governmental pitch fork? Does anybody really believe that excess compensation, as ridiculous as it has been, is the reason for what's going on now?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
What exactly IS the fvcking point of this legislation, btw? Is it just to act as a governmental pitch fork? Does anybody really believe that excess compensation, as ridiculous as it has been, is the reason for what's going on now?

No but it is a great lightning rod issue that will get the avg sheeple to cheer with glee when the govt swoops in and takes from their neighbors right before they stop by and take from them.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,763
327
126
Originally posted by: Billb2
You're all wrong.

If the government doesn't step up to the plate and act as the shareholders that they are, the boards and CEOs of the bailed out companies will be running wild. They will be responsible to no one. If You think the bonuses and golden parashoots have been ridiculous so far, then what do you think they'd be like without the biggest shareholder's control?

That's the point. The government should not be in the role as a major or even minor shareholder. There is a process already available for companies that fail. It's called bankruptcy and there is an entire group of highly experienced attorney's, CPAs and judges who do this for a living.

 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
These people are flatout power crazed lunatics.

Was there ever any doubt about that fact? Unfortunately this is what the American people wanted, hence why this is happening. Obama and his merry men are well on the way to presenting themselves as total disasters when compared to Bush--how the hell is that even possible?

Obama is going to eclipse 8 years of Bush deficits in 2 years. Obama, who has no experience, staffs an automotive task force with people who have no automotive manufacturing experience, 20% of which don't even own automobiles--and they're tasked with "saving" the American automotive industry? What kind of sick joke is that? And now this, the topic of the OP. For Obama's next trick? How about fucking up our already fucked up health care system? I can't wait.