France slaps $7 billion Euro tax on the Rich, Corporations and Oil

[dmcowen674]

7-4-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/french-budget-adds-7-billion-euros-taxes-rich-100603279--business.html

France slaps 7 billion euros in taxes on rich, big firms


France's new Socialist government announced a raft of tax rises worth 7.2 billions euros on Wednesday, including heavy one-off levies on wealthy households and big corporations, to plug a revenue shortfall this year from feeble economic growth.

The measures, in line with President Francois Hollande's election campaign pledges, should be approved without hitches given the Socialists' clear majority in parliament.


Hollande, in power since mid-May, says the rich should pay their share as France battles to cut its public deficit from 5.2 percent of GDP last year to within 4.5 percent this year and 3 percent in 2013 despite a stagnant economy and rising debt.

 

[dmcowen674]

Apparently the previous ruler of France Sarkosy did the same thing as Bush and cut taxes for the rich.

The new ruler has reversed that.

Good for France, the U.S. needs to learn from Europe for a change.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Apparently the previous ruler of France Sarkosy did the same thing as Bush and cut taxes for the rich.

The new ruler has reversed that.

Good for France, the U.S. needs to learn from Europe for a change.

[GB]Wouldn't be prudent, not gonna do it.[/GB]


I would think this is a good test to see if such a measure is a net plus or not.

 

[michal1980]

so when are you moving to you eutopia?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Guess who's really going to pay for this? Consumers when the prices increase due to higher operating costs.

 

[Nintendesert]

Guess who's really going to pay for this? Consumers when the prices increase due to higher operating costs.

Germany.

 

[postmortemIA]

ha, these that have money (rich) have successfully brainwashed many to believe that when govt directly takes money from them, we the poor minions will suffer one way or the other. I think not. It will take them a while to recoup that in the profits. And many products simply sell less if price goes up. $5 Gas? probably everybody will still buy it. $5 bottled water? hell no.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Apparently the previous ruler of France Sarkosy did the same thing as Bush and cut taxes for the rich.

The new ruler has reversed that.

Good for France, the U.S. needs to learn from Europe for a change.

Dave . don't think any one hear doesn't believe France Acted well ,you view things from only the outside looking in thats bad. Dave poster 3 ask a good question. We are talking about people of means here. 50% of these people will leave france giving france a greater loss . Sorry thats the way of it,

 

[dmcowen674]

Dave . don't think any one hear doesn't believe France Acted well ,you view things from only the outside looking in thats bad. Dave poster 3 ask a good question.

We are talking about people of means here.

50% of these people will leave france giving france a greater loss.

Sorry thats the way of it,

Time will tell if 50% of the rich leave France.

They would be so better off if they did so would the U.S.

That means more than 50% of the posters in here would leave the U.S. too and the U.S. would be so better off as well.

The rich leaving France and the U.S. leaves real French and real Americans behind to re-build their respective countries without the greedy bastards that have destroyed them.

Good riddance.

 

[Nintendesert]

Time will tell if 50% of the rich leave France.

They would be so better off if they did so would the U.S.

That means more than 50% of the posters in here would leave the U.S. too and the U.S. would be so better off as well.

The rich leaving France and the U.S. leaves real French and real Americans behind to re-build their respective countries without the greedy bastards that have destroyed them.

Good riddance.

But where would be put all these fleeing rich people? Perhaps we can come up with some sort of camp system to deal with these undesirables.

 

[Matt1970]

ha, these that have money (rich) have successfully brainwashed many to believe that when govt directly takes money from them, we the poor minions will suffer one way or the other. I think not. It will take them a while to recoup that in the profits. And many products simply sell less if price goes up. $5 Gas? probably everybody will still buy it. $5 bottled water? hell no.

As wrong as it may be you are always entitled to your opinion.

 

[dmcowen674]

But where would be put all these fleeing rich people?

Hell?

 

[Nintendesert]

Hell?

Would you happen to have a solution on how to get them there?

 

[dmcowen674]

Would you happen to have a solution on how to get them there?

Sure, you could be their Tour guide

 

[Nintendesert]

Sure, you could be their Tour guide

Come on, that's not a good solution. I think you can do better.

 

[Incorruptible]

When will the idiots in France learn that they are spending too much money

 

[Matt1970]

That's ok, they will probably just surrender to the rich anyways.

 

[MovingTarget]

You know, I hear that raising taxes on wealthy individuals will cause them to move out of (insert nation here), but why do we believe that without evidence? All I typically see are anecdotal stories or conjecture by people who are anything but wealthy. They say, "If they raise taxes like this I'm going to move to another country!", but when push comes to shove - would/did they? There's a lot more advantages to living in the US (or similar first world country) than the tax rates.

Can anyone cite an example where a tax increase caused a statistically significant number of wealthy people to move out of their country? More to the point, can anyone show where a tax increase of this type on the wealthy has either decreased total revenue or depressed overall economic output?

 

[Infohawk]

You know, I hear that raising taxes on wealthy individuals will cause them to move out of (insert nation here), but why do we believe that without evidence? All I typically see are anecdotal stories or conjecture by people who are anything but wealthy. They say, "If they raise taxes like this I'm going to move to another country!", but when push comes to shove - would/did they? There's a lot more advantages to living in the US (or similar first world country) than the tax rates.

Can anyone cite an example where a tax increase caused a statistically significant number of wealthy people to move out of their country? More to the point, can anyone show where a tax increase of this type on the wealthy has either decreased total revenue or depressed overall economic output?

Not disagreeing with what you're saying, but one issue is that France has some nearby neighbors that might be friendlier to the wealthy. Switzerland is one example and is French-speaking around Geneva.

 

[soulcougher73]

When will the idiots in France learn that they are spending too much money

Yeah. Idiots. Glad we don't have that problem....

 

[soulcougher73]

You know, I hear that raising taxes on wealthy individuals will cause them to move out of (insert nation here), but why do we believe that without evidence? All I typically see are anecdotal stories or conjecture by people who are anything but wealthy. They say, "If they raise taxes like this I'm going to move to another country!", but when push comes to shove - would/did they? There's a lot more advantages to living in the US (or similar first world country) than the tax rates.

Can anyone cite an example where a tax increase caused a statistically significant number of wealthy people to move out of their country? More to the point, can anyone show where a tax increase of this type on the wealthy has either decreased total revenue or depressed overall economic output?

It's called a boogeyman. It doesn't really exist.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

You know, I hear that raising taxes on wealthy individuals will cause them to move out of (insert nation here), but why do we believe that without evidence? All I typically see are anecdotal stories or conjecture by people who are anything but wealthy. They say, "If they raise taxes like this I'm going to move to another country!", but when push comes to shove - would/did they? There's a lot more advantages to living in the US (or similar first world country) than the tax rates.

Can anyone cite an example where a tax increase caused a statistically significant number of wealthy people to move out of their country? More to the point, can anyone show where a tax increase of this type on the wealthy has either decreased total revenue or depressed overall economic output?

As you read through this study, take note that changing residence/citizenship in the EU is not that difficult especially for the very wealthy.

"DO THE RICH FLEE FROM HIGH STATE TAXES?
EVIDENCE FROM FEDERAL ESTATE TAX RETURNS"

http://www.nber.org/papers/w10645.pdf?new_window=1

In case you want to skip through reading the paper

Conclusion

This paper finds that the number of federal estate tax return filers reported as residing in
each state is negatively influenced by the level of taxes imposed on high-income and
high-wealth people in that state. The most compelling results are for estate and
inheritance taxes and sales taxes, but income taxes and property taxes have statistically
significant negative effects of similar magnitudes in some reasonable specifications. Our
evidence is consistent with the idea that some rich individuals flee states that tax them
relatively heavily, although it may reflect other modes of tax avoidance as well. The
estimated amounts of deadweight loss and revenue loss from the flight are not large
relative to revenue collected by the taxes, however.

One implication of our finding of a response to EI taxes is that bequests are not
entirely accidental – the optimal degree of taxation of bequests is known to depend
heavily on the extent to which bequests are accidental or intentional.

An implication of the responsiveness to taxes in general is that the optimal degree of state tax progressivity
is less than it would be without such responses, although this by no means definitively
answers the question of whether the current degree of progressivity is too high or too low.

In one sense, any deadweight loss arising from migration, whether real or simply
reported, that is induced by progressive state taxation is a pure waste. This is because the
same distributional and revenue goals could have been achieved through the central
government while avoiding that particular source of welfare cost.

On the other hand, our estimates imply that a progressive increase in state taxes on wealthy elderly people, such
as that involved in decoupling the state estate tax from federal law, is still likely to raise a
substantial share of the revenue that it would have raised in the absence of the kinds of
behavioral response reflected in our estimates, even after taking into account the impact
on revenues from other taxes. Thus, in this context, a state that is not satisfied with the
distributional properties of federal taxation appears to face a standard trade-off between
raising revenue in a progressive fashion and the efficiency costs of that approach, one
aspect of which we have illustrated here.

Now the next question you need to ask yourself is, "Does heavy taxation on the wealthy promote or negate growth in the economy in the light of increased government debt spending". In addition to the effects on the actual cost of living and the standard of living. Furthermore at which rates are investors more likely to invest in the economy for investments which are not deductible vs investments which are tax deductible and how does that shift, when it does occur effect the growth patterns in the economy in a manner that benefits the average person again in relation to their relative standard of living and cost of living. Additionally one can also see more evidence of the actual effects of high taxation, heavy regulatory business environment, etc from state to state in the US via the growth of small to mid-size businesses. Furthermore the regrowth of cost dependent manufacturing in the US and the mini-boom that has occurred in this sector of the economy predominately has occurred in "Right-to-Work" states who traditionally have lower taxation rates or are considered to be "Business friendly" by providing a simplified regulatory and tax environment.

 

[Jhhnn]

As you read through this study, take note that changing residence/citizenship in the EU is not that difficult especially for the very wealthy.



http://www.nber.org/papers/w10645.pdf?new_window=1

In case you want to skip through reading the paper


Now the next question you need to ask yourself is, "Does heavy taxation on the wealthy promote or negate growth in the economy in the light of increased government debt spending". In addition to the effects on the actual cost of living and the standard of living. Furthermore at which rates are investors more likely to invest in the economy for investments which are not deductible vs investments which are tax deductible and how does that shift, when it does occur effect the growth patterns in the economy in a manner that benefits the average person again in relation to their relative standard of living and cost of living. Additionally one can also see more evidence of the actual effects of high taxation, heavy regulatory business environment, etc from state to state in the US via the growth of small to mid-size businesses. Furthermore the regrowth of cost dependent manufacturing in the US and the mini-boom that has occurred in this sector of the economy predominately has occurred in "Right-to-Work" states who traditionally have lower taxation rates or are considered to be "Business friendly" by providing a simplified regulatory and tax environment.

As if moving from one state to another is *the same thing* as abandoning one's citizenship to move to another country. Yep, you bet. Uhh-huh!

 

[ShawnD1]

That's ok, they will probably just surrender to the rich anyways.

Why do people only rip on the French for this?
Poland: Surrendered after 1 month + 5 days.
France: Surrendered after 1 month + 15 days.
Yugoslavia: Surrendered after 11 days
Greece: Surrendered after 24 days

 

[Fern]

As if moving from one state to another is *the same thing* as abandoning one's citizenship to move to another country. Yep, you bet. Uhh-huh!

I lived in France for a number of years, and yes, they could leave France and it would be quite similar to us in the USA just moving to a different state.

France shares a border with 3 countries that, for all practical purposes, are just like France. French is spoken, French is the culture and the food etc is the same. I'm referring to Belgium, Monaco and Switzerland.

As regards citizenship, when I worked in international taxation in Europe citizenship was pretty much irrelevant. Unlike us, they did not tax their citizens living abroad. I do not know if that has changed, or if these new taxes are aimed at defeating that move. At the time we were the only country in the world that taxed based upon citizenship (we also tax based upon residence for those who happen to be non-citizens). All other countries based taxation upon residence. I.e., no reason to change citizenship.

I'm pretty sure that current Euro rules allows any citizen of one country to move to any other country in the union without any additional permission etc.

But I think this is likely moot. Sounds like the increased taxes are temporary in nature. I don't see why people would move because of a one-time surcharge type tax.

Fern