France, Portugal deny airspace to Bolivian president's plane because of Snowden

[JohnOfSheffield]

The government is violating the 4th Amendment and they should be exposed for this. He exposed information mostly known by everyone.

So free Bradley Manning?

It's not different, classified information was leaked and it's either treason in both cases or in neither.

This will put you on the spot because Bradlay Manning was responsible for stuff that happened under your dear leader PeeWee Bush.

You know, the great Christian leader who hated Musulums almost as much as you do?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I have indeed. It certainly protects the president from arrest. Does it automatically preclude temporary detention of his plane to search for fugitives who are not otherwise immune?

I'm actually not sure. Not an expert on diplomatic immunity.

It absolutely does not if there is reason to believe an international fugitive is on board.

We check every single car going in and out of the Ecuador Embassy.

The thing is, if he's internationally wanted we don't just have a right to check, we have an obligation to do so if we have an extradition treaty with the nation who wants the suspect.

If memory serves me right this is mentioned in some international treaty too so it's not just treaties between nations, it's international law as interpreted by the UN.

 

[davmat787]

Is that even a serious question? What kind of message would the US be showing if they let a traitor/spy commit espionage and then just walk away with no punishment?

If you want to familiarize yourself with a real life traitor and spy, read up on Robert Hannsen and then get back to us if you still feel like Snowden is a traitor/spy.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

If you want to familiarize yourself with a real life traitor and spy, read up on Robert Hannsen and then get back to us if you still feel like Snowden is a traitor/spy.

I'd put both Snowden and Manning on that list.

Both did what they did to harm the US intelligence and the nation at large, if that isn't treason i don't know what the fuck is.

Look, for some reason people think i'm supporting Snowden because i think it's fucking disgusting that one NATO member spies on an ally who when they called came to help and to physically plant bugs in an office during trade negotiations, if this was domestic espionage the guilty would serve LONG sentences, 30-35 years in the US isn't uncommon for that type of espionage. (rapists get 5 days - life, depending on how drunk the judge is).

 

[Incorruptible]

So free Bradley Manning?

It's not different, classified information was leaked and it's either treason in both cases or in neither.

This will put you on the spot because Bradlay Manning was responsible for stuff that happened under your dear leader PeeWee Bush.

You know, the great Christian leader who hated Musulums almost as much as you do?

Listen you radical Islamic Jihadist why don't you go have a circle jerk with your fellow radicals?

I never supported bush you moron. And bush was no good Christian considering some of the stuff that he did. bush never hated Muslims and neither do I.

Why don't you mind your own business in England where you guys are going to be taken over.

 

[davmat787]

I'd put both Snowden and Manning on that list.

Both did what they did to harm the US intelligence and the nation at large, if that isn't treason i don't know what the fuck is.

Look, for some reason people think i'm supporting Snowden because i think it's fucking disgusting that one NATO member spies on an ally who when they called came to help and to physically plant bugs in an office during trade negotiations, if this was domestic espionage the guilty would serve LONG sentences, 30-35 years in the US isn't uncommon for that type of espionage. (rapists get 5 days - life, depending on how drunk the judge is).

Hannsen gave up names of double agents to the KGB, essentially signing their death warrants. He left over 20 dead drops of information for the KGB. In addition to the Wikipedia link provided above, here is the http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/robert-hanssen.

I think your suggestion to "add Snowden to that list" is absurd.

The biggest factor in this is his disclosure of a program that many US citizens equate to a violation of their constitutional rights, something that many of us consider to be virtually holy, and what allowed this country to become great. Many also consider the rise to greatness and any erosion of that greatness to directly parallel how well the Constitution has been adhered too.

I don't think Snowdens actions fit the spirit of espionage, but while I disagree with that, I can somewhat understand why someone outside the US would think otherwise.

Given Obamas propensity to try people under the Espionage act (3 the entire time of its existence vs. 7 for Obama alone!), how was Snowden to disclose this program to the American people? Did he provide technical details to other countries that would allow them to infiltrate or copy the program? I don't know honestly, and that might change things but then again simply duplicating a data stream and retaining it does not cut it as far as an accusation of espionage.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

That is the definition of treason in the US. From what I know so far, I don't think Snowden fits that definition. I say "so far" because not all of the documents he provided to the media have not been released.

Is Obama guilty of treason for his administrations aid in the development of the Osama raid movie? Is the SEAL who wrote "No Easy Day" guilty?

 

[bradly1101]

We really started losing our way after 9/11/2001. We can't give up everything in the name of security.

Is this Soviet Russia?

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKBRE9621HT20130704?irpc=932

 

[mistercrabby]

:awe:

Hey look! Three douchebags all together forever. :awe:

 

[mistercrabby]

I'd put both Snowden and Manning on that list.

Both did what they did to harm the US intelligence and the nation at large, if that isn't treason i don't know what the fuck is.

+1

 

[StinkyPinky]

Is that even a serious question? What kind of message would the US be showing if they let a traitor/spy commit espionage and then just walk away with no punishment?

You call him a traitor, I call him a patriot. It's every citizens duty to stand up to tyranny, and he saw the start of it and he stood up to it.

Much respect to the man. Snowden is a genuine American hero. :thumbsup:

 

[unokitty]

You call him a traitor, I call him a patriot. It's every citizens duty to stand up to tyranny, and he saw the start of it and he stood up to it.

Much respect to the man. Snowden is a genuine American hero. :thumbsup:

"Whatever Snowden's motives were in undertaking this undercover mission, he has certainly opened our eyes. ...whenever I see an ad from a telecommunication giant touting how we can share our information with family and friends, I will be grateful to Snowden for letting us know who else is listening.

I'm not sure if Edward Snowden is a traitor but it's pretty clear that many in this administration deserve that description."


--from Is It Possible That Snowden Is A Hero?

Uno