France... Buncha idiots...

Jun 27, 2005
19,216
1
61
Oh, those whacky socialists and their progressive views...
France bans citizen journalists from reporting violence
By Peter Sayer, IDG News Service

The French Constitutional Council has approved a law that criminalizes the filming or broadcasting of acts of violence by people other than professional journalists. The law could lead to the imprisonment of eyewitnesses who film acts of police violence, or operators of Web sites publishing the images, one French civil liberties group warned on Tuesday.

The council chose an unfortunate anniversary to publish its decision approving the law, which came exactly 16 years after Los Angeles police officers beating Rodney King were filmed by amateur videographer George Holliday on the night of March 3, 1991. The officers? acquittal at the end on April 29, 1992 sparked riots in Los Angeles.

If Holliday were to film a similar scene of violence in France today, he could end up in prison as a result of the new law, said Pascal Cohet, a spokesman for French online civil liberties group Odebi. And anyone publishing such images could face up to five years in prison and a fine of ?75,000 (US$98,537), potentially a harsher sentence than that for committing the violent act.

Senators and members of the National Assembly had asked the council to rule on the constitutionality of six articles of the Law relating to the prevention of delinquency. The articles dealt with information sharing by social workers, and reduced sentences for minors. The council recommended one minor change, to reconcile conflicting amendments voted in parliament. The law, proposed by Minister of the Interior Nicolas Sarkozy, is intended to clamp down on a wide range of public order offenses. During parliamentary debate of the law, government representatives said the offense of filming or distributing films of acts of violence targets the practice of ?happy slapping,? in which a violent attack is filmed by an accomplice, typically with a camera phone, for the amusement of the attacker?s friends.

The broad drafting of the law so as to criminalize the activities of citizen journalists unrelated to the perpetrators of violent acts is no accident, but rather a deliberate decision by the authorities, said Cohet. He is concerned that the law, and others still being debated, will lead to the creation of a parallel judicial system controlling the publication of information on the Internet.

The government has also proposed a certification system for Web sites, blog hosters, mobile-phone operators and Internet service providers, identifying them as government-approved sources of information if they adhere to certain rules. The journalists? organization Reporters Without Borders, which campaigns for a free press, has warned that such a system could lead to excessive self censorship as organizations worried about losing their certification suppress certain stories.
I really can't believe that they passed this. As many problems as we have here... as broken as the system seems... reading this made me happy to be an american.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
this is one of those laws which has unintended consequences.

Now it does not appear to affect security cameras.


The intent of the law is to stop slapping, which is unique to Europe because the laws are such that defending yourself can land you in jail for more time that the person doing the assualt (got to love hate crime laws).
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,500
6,044
126
Don't be surprised to see that kind of law spread to North America. Recently in these parts(British Columbia) students from 2 different High Schools were suspended after posting videos of schoolyard fights to Youtube. These were not just fights caught by accident, they were purposely started in order to make the film for posting to Youtube. So far there hasn't been anything regarding changing the Law, but this is the kind of issue that will likely result in a Law.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,579
8,641
136
Originally posted by: sandorski
Don't be surprised to see that kind of law spread to North America. Recently in these parts(British Columbia) students from 2 different High Schools were suspended after posting videos of schoolyard fights to Youtube. These were not just fights caught by accident, they were purposely started in order to make the film for posting to Youtube. So far there hasn't been anything regarding changing the Law, but this is the kind of issue that will likely result in a Law.

I agree. I mean, given how many worship European laws and social system, it will not take much for such laws to become our own.

Freedom of speech? Hah, we already have the precedent set for cursing and ?public disorder?. Then you must never forget we did abolish several parts in the Bill of Rights with the patriot act, so what?s one more down the drain?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,805
6,518
126
Geez, there go the French again. I think those bastards even have laws against the Nazi party. Talk about limiting free association, much free speech. But of course I hate them most for making us Americans and our Freedom Fries look like a bunch of chumps. These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I really can't believe that they passed this. As many problems as we have here... as broken as the system seems... reading this made me happy to be an american.
Whenever you're feeling down, just punch some random guy nearby. It'll make you feel better about yourself.
 

DerekP

Member
Mar 7, 2007
32
0
0
The first thing I think of when I read about this law is the terrorist tactic of beheading and then televising and posting the video on the net. Maybe France didn't want to mention that angle of it for fear of angering their muslim population.
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one

Yup, we were right to ignore the obvious truth and blunder into an unwinnable war in the Middle East because that truth was uttered by a nation that made some money from oil in a rather shady way.


It was all worth it, and if we knew then what we know now, we'd still be better off invading Iraq.

I heard France advised us that attacking Iran may have disasterous consequences...I say "Bombs-Away!"

Damn French.

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,836
2,635
136
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one

Yup, we were right to ignore the obvious truth and blunder into an unwinnable war in the Middle East because that truth was uttered by a nation that made some money from oil in a rather shady way.


It was all worth it, and if we knew then what we know now, we'd still be better off invading Iraq.

I heard France advised us that attacking Iran may have disasterous consequences...I say "Bombs-Away!"

Damn French.


So you gloss over and ignore the dispicable actions of the French just so you can turn yet another thread into a Bush bashing war on Iraq thread? Nice. :cookie:
 

DerekP

Member
Mar 7, 2007
32
0
0
I do happen to think they over-legislate everything. With regard to the happy-slapping silliness, why can't they just use this recorded evidence of assault to punish the people doing it if that's their goal? They could just as easily see people on the street slapping people and get them for that, as see people recording the slapping and punish them for the recording. I would imagine recording it and giggling about the whole deal would be a pretty strong connection as an accomplice to this kind of stuff, without outlawing the act of recording it in and of itself. Something sounds off here.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
lol.. so predictable... from France to Bush in Iraq in under 10 posts... yay!

Doesn't anyone else here despise this obvious move toward government censorship perpetrated by France on its people? Or do you simply not care? Or would something like that not bother you if it happened here?

what a bunch of jokers...
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,044
0
0
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one

Yup, we were right to ignore the obvious truth and blunder into an unwinnable war in the Middle East because that truth was uttered by a nation that made some money from oil in a rather shady way.


It was all worth it, and if we knew then what we know now, we'd still be better off invading Iraq.

I heard France advised us that attacking Iran may have disasterous consequences...I say "Bombs-Away!"

Damn French.


So you gloss over and ignore the dispicable actions of the French just so you can turn yet another thread into a Bush bashing war on Iraq thread? Nice. :cookie:

LOL someone needs to look up that word and reconsider who you're calling it.

 

f95toli

Golden Member
Nov 21, 2002
1,547
0
0
Originally posted by: DerekP
With regard to the happy-slapping silliness, why can't they just use this recorded evidence of assault to punish the people doing it if that's their goal?

Probably because being at the scene of a crime is not considered a crime in itself, and until they passed this law neither was filming the assult and posting the movie on the internet.
I am not familiar with the French system, but I know that in many countries the rules are pretty strict about who can be considered to be an accomplice to a crime; you either have to participate in the crime itself or help plan it; and the latter can be very difficult to prove.
The American system is a bit different, in the US I suspect filming the crime would be enough for a conviction.
 

imported_Tango

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2005
1,623
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Oh, those whacky socialists and their progressive views...
France bans citizen journalists from reporting violence
By Peter Sayer, IDG News Service

The French Constitutional Council has approved a law that criminalizes the filming or broadcasting of acts of violence by people other than professional journalists. The law could lead to the imprisonment of eyewitnesses who film acts of police violence, or operators of Web sites publishing the images, one French civil liberties group warned on Tuesday.

The council chose an unfortunate anniversary to publish its decision approving the law, which came exactly 16 years after Los Angeles police officers beating Rodney King were filmed by amateur videographer George Holliday on the night of March 3, 1991. The officers? acquittal at the end on April 29, 1992 sparked riots in Los Angeles.

If Holliday were to film a similar scene of violence in France today, he could end up in prison as a result of the new law, said Pascal Cohet, a spokesman for French online civil liberties group Odebi. And anyone publishing such images could face up to five years in prison and a fine of ?75,000 (US$98,537), potentially a harsher sentence than that for committing the violent act.

Senators and members of the National Assembly had asked the council to rule on the constitutionality of six articles of the Law relating to the prevention of delinquency. The articles dealt with information sharing by social workers, and reduced sentences for minors. The council recommended one minor change, to reconcile conflicting amendments voted in parliament. The law, proposed by Minister of the Interior Nicolas Sarkozy, is intended to clamp down on a wide range of public order offenses. During parliamentary debate of the law, government representatives said the offense of filming or distributing films of acts of violence targets the practice of ?happy slapping,? in which a violent attack is filmed by an accomplice, typically with a camera phone, for the amusement of the attacker?s friends.

The broad drafting of the law so as to criminalize the activities of citizen journalists unrelated to the perpetrators of violent acts is no accident, but rather a deliberate decision by the authorities, said Cohet. He is concerned that the law, and others still being debated, will lead to the creation of a parallel judicial system controlling the publication of information on the Internet.

The government has also proposed a certification system for Web sites, blog hosters, mobile-phone operators and Internet service providers, identifying them as government-approved sources of information if they adhere to certain rules. The journalists? organization Reporters Without Borders, which campaigns for a free press, has warned that such a system could lead to excessive self censorship as organizations worried about losing their certification suppress certain stories.
I really can't believe that they passed this. As many problems as we have here... as broken as the system seems... reading this made me happy to be an american.

Why did you fail to understand the part that you put in bold? It is clearly an ad-hoc law against the so called "happy slapping" practice. It is not about security cameras, or videos taken to cooperate with the police.

Edit: by the way... I still think the law was not needed and this is not a definitive solution to the problem, which would be address the social environment dsequilibria generating the practice in the first place.
 

DerekP

Member
Mar 7, 2007
32
0
0
And we all know how well ad-hoc laws go. You can't make a law as broad as that and think it won't be applied to other things. Their intent may be to put an end to happy-slapping, but the effect will be much worse than what they're trying to end.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,836
2,635
136
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one

Yup, we were right to ignore the obvious truth and blunder into an unwinnable war in the Middle East because that truth was uttered by a nation that made some money from oil in a rather shady way.


It was all worth it, and if we knew then what we know now, we'd still be better off invading Iraq.

I heard France advised us that attacking Iran may have disasterous consequences...I say "Bombs-Away!"

Damn French.


So you gloss over and ignore the dispicable actions of the French just so you can turn yet another thread into a Bush bashing war on Iraq thread? Nice. :cookie:

LOL someone needs to look up that word and reconsider who you're calling it.

Oh, so you think the oil for food scandal was ok?

 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
so a law with unintended consequence of making it illegal to record something as a witness is worse than the national policy here of making it illegal for citizens to out the illegal actions of secret government programs?
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one

Yup, we were right to ignore the obvious truth and blunder into an unwinnable war in the Middle East because that truth was uttered by a nation that made some money from oil in a rather shady way.


It was all worth it, and if we knew then what we know now, we'd still be better off invading Iraq.

I heard France advised us that attacking Iran may have disasterous consequences...I say "Bombs-Away!"

Damn French.


So you gloss over and ignore the dispicable actions of the French just so you can turn yet another thread into a Bush bashing war on Iraq thread? Nice. :cookie:

No.

My point is that you don't ignore the truth simply because you dislike the messenger.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,805
6,518
126
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: sierrita
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
These are the cowards who warned us not to go to war in Iraq. Thank God we didn't listen to them on that. Bush would never have become the world's most beloved champion of freedom had we paid any attention.

Yeah... too bad we put an end to their illicit business dealing and oil for food scandals... they were really right about that one

Yup, we were right to ignore the obvious truth and blunder into an unwinnable war in the Middle East because that truth was uttered by a nation that made some money from oil in a rather shady way.


It was all worth it, and if we knew then what we know now, we'd still be better off invading Iraq.

I heard France advised us that attacking Iran may have disasterous consequences...I say "Bombs-Away!"

Damn French.


So you gloss over and ignore the dispicable actions of the French just so you can turn yet another thread into a Bush bashing war on Iraq thread? Nice. :cookie:

No.

My point is that you don't ignore the truth simply because you dislike the messenger.

The French probably learned from Iran-Contra.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Doesn't anyone else here despise this obvious move toward government censorship perpetrated by France on its people? Or do you simply not care? Or would something like that not bother you if it happened here?.
It's a stupid idea for sure, and yet here you are judging other countries on what laws they pass and how they conduct business. How would you like it if the French were telling us how to run our country? Yeah... I didn't think so.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
If XYZ countries don't do what America is doing or not doing, something must be wrong with them.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,579
8,641
136
Originally posted by: palehorse74
lol.. so predictable... from France to Bush in Iraq in under 10 posts... yay!

Doesn't anyone else here despise this obvious move toward government censorship perpetrated by France on its people? Or do you simply not care? Or would something like that not bother you if it happened here?

what a bunch of jokers...

You should understand they are devout to socialism, which is made through a big authoritarian government. The only step from that into communism is 1 man willing to abuse such centralized power.

Many here would love to silence those they disagree with through government control. Russia is the model by which we?re striving to follow into the abyss. This topic is merely reflection that France is 1 step closer, and that we are soon to follow.