France Bans Burqa

[Cerb]

It kind of depends. France has a very archaic citizenship system. Many of these people basically have to beg/ask for citizenship at age 16-21 even though they were born there.

'These people' being those of immigrant families?

 

[CanOWorms]

'These people' being those of immigrant families?

Children of immigrants

 

[Infohawk]

It kind of depends. France has a very archaic citizenship system. Many of these people basically have to beg/ask for citizenship at age 16-21 even though they were born there.

Another thread successfully hijacked by COW. Destination: Eurohate.

Please compare and contrast the French citizenship system to those of China, India, Morocco and Argentina in order to back up your statement that the French system is archaic.

 

[CanOWorms]

Another thread successfully hijacked by COW. Destination: Eurohate.

Please compare and contrast the French citizenship system to those of China, India, Morocco and Argentina in order to back up your statement that the French system is archaic.

It seems like you're the one trying to do your own personal hijacking. Again, any criticism of European policies brings out your inner supremacist.

Please provide an essay on why a citizenship system should be specifically compared to China, India, Morocco, and Argentina in order to be considered archaic to back up your illogical request. Please specify why not all of those may be archaic.

 

[Infohawk]

It seems like you're the one trying to do your own personal hijacking. Again, any criticism of European policies brings out your inner supremacist.

Please provide an essay on why a citizenship system should be specifically compared to China, India, Morocco, and Argentina in order to be considered archaic to back up your illogical request. Please specify why not all of those may be archaic.

Unsurprisingly, you are badmouthing a European country with no back up. You are the one making the statement, so you should prove it. It's no different than saying, "Tea kettles are buried on the far side of Pluto, prove I'm wrong!" If it's really archaic and worthy of criticism, why don't you compare it to all those countries around the world and see how it holds up? You probably won't because you don't have any evidence for your beliefs, just prejudices.

 

[Cerb]

Children of immigrants

In that case, they pretty much are immigrants, themselves.

Now, are they assimilating into French culture, or are they trying to make France a hybrid, with their own culture? France is not the US. Our laws basically state that our culture comes from the bottom up. Many European nations do not, and they consider that culture as their national identity. They have this 'archaic' citizenship process, because they don't want someone who just happened to be born there, to have power there.

I think they are headed for violence, but France has every right to do it, and I don't think they are wrong to. Not every country in the world wants to be like ours, you know. I think the biggest problem is that France waited until it was near crisis. If they had done it 10+ years ago, I think they could have easily and peacefully gotten away with it, purely as a rights, and personal ID issue.

 

[CanOWorms]

Unsurprisingly, you are badmouthing a European country with no back up. You are the one making the statement, so you should prove it. It's no different than saying, "Tea kettles are buried on the far side of Pluto, prove I'm wrong!" If it's really archaic and worthy of criticism, why don't you compare it to all those countries around the world and see how it holds up? You probably won't because you don't have any evidence for your beliefs, just prejudices.

Unsurprisingly, you are supporting far-right laws with irrational requests.

I already provided my justification for my opinion of what I deem to be an archaic and barbaric system. Restricting children born in the country from citizenship until they reach adulthood is archaic.

 

[CanOWorms]

In that case, they pretty much are immigrants, themselves.

No, they were born in France. They didn't immigrate to France.

Now, are they assimilating into French culture, or are they trying to make France a hybrid, with their own culture? France is not the US. Our laws basically state that our culture comes from the bottom up. Many European nations do not, and they consider that culture as their national identity. They have this 'archaic' citizenship process, because they don't want someone who just happened to be born there, to have power there.

So who gets to choose what that national identity will be? We already saw what Europe did before with that route. It was called WW2 and it motivated a genocide.

I think they are headed for violence, but France has every right to do it, and I don't think they are wrong to. Not every country in the world wants to be like ours, you know. I think the biggest problem is that France waited until it was near crisis. If they had done it 10+ years ago, I think they could have easily and peacefully gotten away with it, purely as a rights, and personal ID issue.

A lot of immigrants in France come from countries that France destroyed through its harsh colonialism and slavery. These people are going to France and building it and providing it a future with new potential French citizens, especially in light of Europe's low population growth issues.

 

[Infohawk]

Unsurprisingly, you are supporting far-right laws with irrational requests.

I already provided my justification for my opinion of what I deem to be an archaic and barbaric system. Restricting children born in the country from citizenship until they reach adulthood is archaic.

So then you would agree that most of the world has barbaric and archaic citizenship laws. India's must be the worst of all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Citizenship_by_birth

It's ridiculous that you call it archaic when it's a recent development in most countries, which you probably know little about anyway.

 

[CanOWorms]

So then you would agree that most of the world has barbaric and archaic citizenship laws. India's must be the worst of all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law#Citizenship_by_birth

It's ridiculous that you call it archaic when it's a recent development in most countries, which you probably know little about anyway.

Yes, it's archaic. Please provide me with an essay on why it being recently implemented in a country precludes it from being archaic. Please compare and contrast to countries such as the Afghanistan under the Taliban implementing beheadings and stonings relatively recently.

 

[Infohawk]

Yes, it's archaic. Please provide me with an essay on why it being recently implemented in a country precludes it from being archaic. Please compare and contrast to countries such as the Afghanistan under the Taliban implementing beheadings and stonings relatively recently.

You're right. Now when are you going to start ranting against Indian nationality laws? They are more restrictive and archaic than France's apparently. France's nationality laws are in line with the rest of the world's and have nothing to do with the Burqa.

(Notice how I had to do your work for you re India.)

 

[CanOWorms]

You're right. Now when are you going to start ranting against Indian nationality laws? They are more restrictive and archaic than France's apparently. France's nationality laws are in line with the rest of the world's and have nothing to do with the Burqa.

(Notice how I had to do your work for you re India.)

Are you trying to command me to start arguing over a random topic? Is it ok for me to command you to initiate talking on certain topics?

Are you serious?

 

[Infohawk]

Are you trying to command me to start arguing over a random topic? Is it ok for me to command you to initiate talking on certain topics?

Are you serious?

You hijack threads all the time. You've done it in this case by changing the topic to nationality laws. If you are claiming that France has draconian laws, it makes sense to compare them to other countries' laws like India's. In this case I've shown that India just as or more restrictive rules than France's. Most of the other countries in the world are comparable to France's and India's. So again what this comes down to is your irrational hate for Europe and not about any other kind of principled reasons or about France having unusual or draconian laws. That will be all for now, please carry on dealing with your European scars by acting out your rage on an internet forum.

 

[CanOWorms]

You hijack threads all the time. You've done it in this case by changing the topic to nationality laws. If you are claiming that France has draconian laws, it makes sense to compare them to other countries' laws like India's. In this case I've shown that India just as or more restrictive rules than France's. Most of the other countries in the world are comparable to France's and India's. So again what this comes down to is your irrational hate for Europe and not about any other kind of principled reasons or about France having unusual or draconian laws. That will be all for now, please carry on dealing with your European scars by acting out your rage on an internet forum.

Sorry, but you've hijacked the thread with your personal issues.

This Burqa ban is closely related to immigration and citizenship issues that other people brought up. I simply joined the existing conversation.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Another thread successfully hijacked by COW. Destination: Eurohate.

Please compare and contrast the French citizenship system to those of China, India, Morocco and Argentina in order to back up your statement that the French system is archaic.

LOL - and you say this on the very same day where you start randomly linking to a news story about a Muslim family marrying off an underaged daughter as the very first post in a thread about a Christian college!

Keep up the hypocrisy!

 

[Orignal Earl]

'These people' being those of immigrant families?

Islam is the second most widely practiced religion in France by number of worshippers, with an estimated total of 6 to 10 percent of the national population. The presence of Muslims in France is attested as soon as the 8th century when the Moors conquered Spain and pushed northward. The Moors were quickly defeated in 732 by Frankish and Burgundian forces at the Battle of Tours. After WWII, the number of Muslims in France surged with the arrival of an increasing foreign labor force from the Maghreb. Immigrants came from nations which maintained strong ties with French language and culture (Francophonie) because of the legacy of past colonization. Immigrants, lured by economic opportunities, supplied a pool of manpower for the labor-intensive economy which prevailed at this time. They have chosen to settle in France and to embrace citizenship, as they were granted family reunification. Muslims contributed noticeably to the economic expansion of France during that time of "The Glorious Thirty", primarily as blue-collar workers in manufacturing plants or construction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

 

[Cerb]

No, they were born in France. They didn't immigrate to France.

By people who have legal residence in France? Are they for the laws banning burqas, by any chance? How many that are pissed off about the law are citizens by birth? Of those that are citizens by birth, how many are not treated as outsiders?

So who gets to choose what that national identity will be? We already saw what Europe did before with that route. It was called WW2 and it motivated a genocide.

Those with economic and political power. I would not say it motivated a genocide, though. A crazy man motivated genocide, using economic imbalances as his ammunition, and against a people that actually make it a point of their religion to assimilate. It was greatly helped by Germany's history of indoctrinating its populous to think as they are told, which is something we do a bit too much for comfort, as well. The chances of going anywhere near that route are slim to none; and, if they do, somebody will stop them. A video can travel in mere seconds across the globe, now--everyone will know the score, well before it could even get to the stage of ghettos.

A lot of immigrants in France come from countries that France destroyed through its harsh colonialism and slavery. These people are going to France and building it and providing it a future with new potential French citizens, especially in light of Europe's low population growth issues.

Hence thinking it will get to violence. If you can accept that "traditional French" treat their traditional culture as something higher than themselves, and thus also higher than those of their lower classes, who are not of that lineage, it makes sense. They want people to either become what they see as French, as they fear their culture no longer being what they view it as. Backwards religious sects gaining power would certainly be something to fear.

Those who seek to stop change will fail in their particular goals, on the one hand. On the other, is it wrong to defend that which you have proudly worked to uphold? I think both sides are somewhat right (upholding rights, treating a history of rich art and politics as sacred), and also fairly wrong (denying rights, racism). France is going to take it to a crisis, which is also something they have quite a history of. When the dust settles, they'll all have to get along with each other a little better, and the extreme sects they are particularly targeting will be outed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France

I don't see a population breakdown, there (or, annoyingly, anywhere--apparently France has some laws that indirectly get in the way of it). From what I understand, if someone is born in France, by legal residents in France, they are granted automatic citizenship. otherwise, they have to somehow earn it. The most I can divine is that, in recent years, they have gotten quite a few million people that they have not granted citizenship to. That still leaves many questions, and how long and how many practice Islam doesn't have a lot to do with it (someone can fully assimilate, yet still practice this religion, correct?).