Fox News admits lying about Obama and socialism

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Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
793
0
0
Fox lawyers argued that they lie in a court of law?! The bold corruption of that argument is outstanding...

You poor bastards on the right-wing never stood a chance. A whole station RIFE with propaganda and indoctrination. Lap it up serfs, may your moneyed lords show you favor!
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Fox's argument is drop in the bucket when considering the fact that they won, and the rest of our establishment stayed mum on the issue. We've got a whole society rife with propaganda and indoctrination, the right is just the most flagrant about it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Fox's argument is drop in the bucket when considering the fact that they won, and the rest of our establishment stayed mum on the issue. We've got a whole society rife with propaganda and indoctrination, the right is just the most flagrant about it.

No, actually, IIRC, other major media groups filed briefs in support of Fox on this.

Having big corporate ownership of the media the public counts on for politics, good plan.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I've always found it funny that ANYONE would call Obama a socialist in the first place. What a silly little parroted talking point that persists to this day. Black Bush deserves better than that!

Funny thing is, we'd be a lot better off if he were more socialist.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
However, if think MSNBC supported Iraq and Libya you obviously haven't been watching. Now, if you intended to mean that MSNBC has dropped bitching about Iraq since Obama, you'd have a point.

MSNBC *supported* the war in Iraq in its coverage - to an extreme.

It not only brought back the American flag all over the screen copying Fox, and added a 'heroes' segment showing photos from viewers of family members in the war.

Its top rated show was Phil Donahue, who had some anti-war guests on his show (as well as pro-war). MSNBC decided that the anti-war view did not deserve to get any airtime much, and directed the Donahue show against those guests; it put a network person at the show to enforce its editorial policy against anti-war guests; it put a rule in place that for every anti-war guest the show had to have three pro-war guests; and then it canceled the show (and hired Michael Savage).

It was a disgusting example of pro-war corporate media editorial policy.

They just seem to have stumbled on a 'liberal' approach later, finding they couldn't beat Fox at the right-wing game, so there was profit with the other side.

While they're now airing some good news shows, I trust them as far as that's a profitable approach.
 
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Axon

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2003
2,541
1
76
Political reporting is slanted by nature - otherwise, it would just be "Obama said X" or "Y happened in Afghanistan today" with no analysis whatsoever. No one wants that, though, so anytime you get any kind of analyst up there, it's going one way or the other.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
So says a bunch of talk radio fed conspiracy theorists who think the president is a secret mooslim commie out to rape granny. The irony is quite rich!
Riiight. The talk radio fed conspiracy theorists can't see the REAL conspiracy - Fox News!
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Political reporting is slanted by nature - otherwise, it would just be "Obama said X" or "Y happened in Afghanistan today" with no analysis whatsoever. No one wants that, though, so anytime you get any kind of analyst up there, it's going one way or the other.

I actually want this....


when I watch news I watch news....when I want analysis I watch talking head shows....
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Riiight. The talk radio fed conspiracy theorists can't see the REAL conspiracy - Fox News!

Foxnews would not exist if it were not for Limbaugh getting away with creating a fantasyworld of bullshit COnservatives wanted to hear through deregulation of the media in the 80s. (no way in hell all these conspiracy would have been created like Dems eating black babies or being all about big government if there was a liberal there calling him on his lies all day like there used to be to keep cons from doing this. They feed one another now with Foxnews lending the conspiracy mongering by being a big well funded corporate mass media outfit.

Nothing less then a corporate pr/Republican pr campaign of lies, they took the pro-wrestling drama format and put it to the tune of politics. A unamerican and dangerous situation for having a well-informed public that Democracy must have to exist.



Foxnews should just make a damn bid and BUY congress already instead of hiding behind bullshit fronts like "teaparties". Then we can watch the Dems/Reps mudwrestle all day to soft-rock version of the national anthem with blonde big tittied bimbos cheering from the rafters. It would probably be a improvement. They should also buy out cspan and have rich CEO vs corrupt Representative golf matches on the white house lawn all day while Obama carries their clubs like a good brown person in "Real America" should. Ratings are king!

Actually, that show described would be canceled in a few seasons. Then the government would be...80s she-ra, gilligan's island reruns? Who knows? someone with money lol. Privatization rules!
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Foxnews should just make a damn bid and BUY congress already instead of hiding behind bullshit fronts like "teaparties".

Gotta keep the pretense up - the guy needs to give the girl a piece of jewelry, not cash, or it's too clear she's a hooker.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Foxnews would not exist if it were not for Limbaugh getting away with creating a fantasyworld of bullshit COnservatives wanted to hear through deregulation of the media in the 80s. (no way in hell all these conspiracy would have been created like Dems eating black babies or being all about big government if there was a liberal there calling him on his lies all day like there used to be to keep cons from doing this. They feed one another now with Foxnews lending the conspiracy mongering by being a big well funded corporate mass media outfit.

Nothing less then a corporate pr/Republican pr campaign of lies, they took the pro-wrestling drama format and put it to the tune of politics. A unamerican and dangerous situation for having a well-informed public that Democracy must have to exist.



Foxnews should just make a damn bid and BUY congress already instead of hiding behind bullshit fronts like "teaparties". Then we can watch the Dems/Reps mudwrestle all day to soft-rock version of the national anthem with blonde big tittied bimbos cheering from the rafters. It would probably be a improvement. They should also buy out cspan and have rich CEO vs corrupt Representative golf matches on the white house lawn all day while Obama carries their clubs like a good brown person in "Real America" should. Ratings are king!

Actually, that show described would be canceled in a few seasons. Then the government would be...80s she-ra, gilligan's island reruns? Who knows? someone with money lol. Privatization rules!
The far left is truly incapable of understanding why Fox News or talk radio exists. Rupert Murdoch, a pretty liberal guy (big Hillary supporter remember), saw that the British news media was all slanted hard to the left. He made a fortune with the right-slanted Sky News. He then looked at America and saw that our news media was similarly all slanted hard to the left. Cue right-slanted Fox News, where Murdoch made another fortune. All it takes it is to provide a news agency not dedicated to telling a majority of the people every day that everything they believe, every principle they hold, is wrong. It doesn't even have to be particularly good; it just has to NOT go against everything people believe every day. Unfortunately the left can tolerate anything except a dissenting opinion, which is why there are always calls for destroying Fox News and talk radio but never calls for destroying ABC/CBS/CNN/NBC. Hell, conservatives aren't even calling for the elimination of MSNBC. Our highest ambition is to not be made to fund liberal news media.

It's very typical though to hear progressives talk of "getting away" with something. For progressives freedom of speech is performance art (which must of course be funded with tax dollars), not anything they don't want to hear and CERTAINLY don't want anyone else to hear.
 
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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
The far left is truly incapable of understanding why Fox News or talk radio exists. Rupert Murdoch, a pretty liberal guy (big Hillary supporter remember), saw that the British news media was all slanted hard to the left.

The fact that it is not entertainment news does not make it "left" it is the right that made this conspiracy up since the 80's to feed sensationalist right wing bs as reality for entertainment instead of keeping it real. Your premise is bunk and another glaring example of how far right you all have slid into some free-market delusion that ratings and money trump a informed democracy (even if its not the flashiest way to do things -but could be if mass media had the inclination besides trying to cash in).
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The fact that it is not entertainment news does not make it "left" it is the right that made this conspiracy up since the 80's to feed sensationalist right wing bs as reality for entertainment instead of keeping it real. Your premise is bunk and another glaring example of how far right you all have slid into some free-market delusion that ratings and money trump a informed democracy (even if its not the flashiest way to do things -but could be if mass media had the inclination besides trying to cash in).
Right, your intention is an "informed democracy". Properly informed, no doubt. For instance, when ABC devoted a whole day to promoting Obamacare, without an ounce of dissension to be found even in the hand-picked "town hall" meeting, that was clearly informing the public. But when Fox News allows talking heads from both parties to argue their points, that is clearly a sensationalist right wing conspiracy.

Why not just directly promote the killing fields? That way you don't have to worry about ever hearing a dissenting opinion and the country can go right into glorious subsistence farming and line-standing, enjoying all the benefits of Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, the Soviet Union, and pre-capitalism Red China. Who needs two parties anyway?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
The fact that it is not entertainment news does not make it "left" it is the right that made this conspiracy up since the 80's to feed sensationalist right wing bs as reality for entertainment instead of keeping it real. Your premise is bunk and another glaring example of how far right you all have slid into some free-market delusion that ratings and money trump a informed democracy (even if its not the flashiest way to do things -but could be if mass media had the inclination besides trying to cash in).

In this country Freedom of Speech has stood for, among things, the right for people etc to express their political beliefs. This has historically gone so far to include lies. Look at campaign literature from the beginning of the country- candidates claiming the other is incestuous, has black concubines, illegitimate kids etc. Basically, it has been thought that (most) people can figure it out.

Now, you seem to arrive at this debate with two fundamental problems: (1) News must be 100% truth or correct. But what is 'truth'? Mankind has been struggling with that since whenever. And who gets to decide? When you understand the problems with the latter, you'll learn to accept why we allow such lattitude. Many of you seem to complain that Repubs/righties are "told" what to believe. Yet ironically this is exactly what you propose; you just want a different 'Teller" telling everyone what to believe. (2) You approach this with a strong conviction that your 'side' is the right side, and it's always correct 100% of time. The other side is always wrong 100% of the time. After watching politics and politicians and their cheerleaders over several decades I can you tell you with a great degree of certitude neither is correct (one side a 100% of being correct/incorrect). I don't care which side you stand on either.

Let each side make their arguments, even if occasionally (or in fact often), assinine and let 'The People' decide. This is called empowering people. The other way, dare I say 'your way', is to assume they are too stupid to decide for themselves and so you (the royal "you") must decide for them. But we had enough of that under kings and dictators. DO. NOT. WANT.

So just compete in the market place of ideas. No matter how messy, it's the best anyone has ever come up with in the history of the world.

Fern
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
In this country Freedom of Speech has stood for, among things, the right for people etc to express their political beliefs. This has historically gone so far to include lies. Look at campaign literature from the beginning of the country- candidates claiming the other is incestuous, has black concubines, illegitimate kids etc. Basically, it has been thought that (most) people can figure it out.

Now, you seem to arrive at this debate with two fundamental problems: (1) News must be 100% truth or correct. But what is 'truth'? Mankind has been struggling with that since whenever. And who gets to decide? When you understand the problems with the latter, you'll learn to accept why we allow such lattitude. Many of you seem to complain that Repubs/righties are "told" what to believe. Yet ironically this is exactly what you propose; you just want a different 'Teller" telling everyone what to believe. (2) You approach this with a strong conviction that your 'side' is the right side, and it's always correct 100% of time. The other side is always wrong 100% of the time. After watching politics and politicians and their cheerleaders over several decades I can you tell with a great degree of certitude neither is correct (one side a 100% of being correct/incorrect). I don't care which side you stand on either.

Let each side make their arguments, even if occasionally (or in fact often), assinine and let 'The People' decide. This is called empowering people. The other way, dare I say 'your way', is to assume they are too stupid to decide for themselves and so you (the royal "you") must decide for them. But we had enough of that under kings and dictators. DO. NOT. WANT.

So just compete in the market place of ideas. No matter how messy, it's the best anyone has ever come up with the history of the world.

Fern
Well said, as usual.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
In this country Freedom of Speech has stood for, among things, the right for people etc to express their political beliefs. This has historically gone so far to include lies. Look at campaign literature from the beginning of the country- candidates claiming the other is incestuous, has black concubines, illegitimate kids etc. Basically, it has been thought that (most) people can figure it out.

Now, you seem to arrive at this debate with two fundamental problems: (1) News must be 100% truth or correct. But what is 'truth'? Mankind has been struggling with that since whenever. And who gets to decide? When you understand the problems with the latter, you'll learn to accept why we allow such lattitude. Many of you seem to complain that Repubs/righties are "told" what to believe. Yet ironically this is exactly what you propose; you just want a different 'Teller" telling everyone what to believe. (2) You approach this with a strong conviction that your 'side' is the right side, and it's always correct 100% of time. The other side is always wrong 100% of the time. After watching politics and politicians and their cheerleaders over several decades I can you tell you with a great degree of certitude neither is correct (one side a 100% of being correct/incorrect). I don't care which side you stand on either.

Let each side make their arguments, even if occasionally (or in fact often), assinine and let 'The People' decide. This is called empowering people. The other way, dare I say 'your way', is to assume they are too stupid to decide for themselves and so you (the royal "you") must decide for them. But we had enough of that under kings and dictators. DO. NOT. WANT.

So just compete in the market place of ideas. No matter how messy, it's the best anyone has ever come up with in the history of the world.

Fern

This is excuse making for corporate propaganda, there is no "people" in this version of the "truth". It is advertising, false advertising is fraud. Foxnews is not news, it's a commercial fronting as truth. And yes, regardless of your conservative mantra that truth is bendable, its not. I know Conservatives NEED to lie to make reality fit their commercial agenda but its not our problem you need entertainment not news. The media being able to find the real news is not the issue. Other countries do media just fine. Democracy is not broken, it's the rats infested into the mass media here is thanks to these very BS arguments confusing commercialism with democracy. It's a false choice.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
This is excuse making for corporate propaganda, there is no "people" in this version of the "truth". It is advertising, false advertising is fraud. Foxnews is not news, it's a commercial fronting as truth. And yes, regardless of your conservative mantra that truth is bendable, its not. I know Conservatives NEED to lie to make reality fit their commercial agenda but its not our problem you need entertainment not news. The media being able to find the real news is not the issue. Other countries do media just fine. Democracy is not broken, it's the rats infested into the mass media here is thanks to these very BS arguments confusing commercialism with democracy. It's a false choice.

Fox news makes more sence than you do. You make it out like Fox is the first to do this when the big 3 have been doing it for decades. You just get all huffy-puffy when it isn't slanted your way.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
MSNBC *supported* the war in Iraq in its coverage - to an extreme.

It not only brought back the American flag all over the screen copying Fox, and added a 'heroes' segment showing photos from viewers of family members in the war.

Its top rated show was Phil Donahue, who had some anti-war guests on his show (as well as pro-war). MSNBC decided that the anti-war view did not deserve to get any airtime much, and directed the Donahue show against those guests; it put a network person at the show to enforce its editorial policy against anti-war guests; it put a rule in place that for every anti-war guest the show had to have three pro-war guests; and then it canceled the show (and hired Michael Savage).

It was a disgusting example of pro-war corporate media editorial policy.

They just seem to have stumbled on a 'liberal' approach later, finding they couldn't beat Fox at the right-wing game, so there was profit with the other side.

While they're now airing some good news shows, I trust them as far as that's a profitable approach.

Fern, I'd like to congratulate you for taking responsibility for your error.

But as usual, I can't, because you didn't.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Let's review this issue of media lying for a minute.

One complication is that a lot of lies fall into opinion. Take 'Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11'. Now, that's not true, but who can PROVE that there wasn't some secret conspiracy that wasn't uncovered - so even if the odds are 1 in a million, isn't it still an opinion that it's a lie, so people can defend making the claim as opinion?

But even taking outright falsehoods - say, the birthers or some Swift Boat claims - there are big problems with trying to prevent the media from lying.

Once the mechanism is there to do so, that mechanism can be abused. When we had the Bush administration stating *as fact*, that there wasn't any doubt, that Saddam was a threat to the US with WMD, couldn't they have used any such mechanism to silence media who told 'the lie' that he might not have WMD?

Also, the public can get caught up in a view; is there much besides the right to free speech even to what's called a lie that can address wrong views - for example, if everyone believed in the deep south in 1825 that blacks could never learn to read and write, what but the rights for someone to tell 'the lie' that they could would help that wrong view get attacked?

The measures against the lies quickly become the measures against the truth in the hands of the corrupt.

However, as nice as it would be to say that that addresses the problem, as if the truth-tellers can just tell the truth, the fact is that money is a tool for lying.

Money buys the media, the airing of opinion. It's a very corrupting factor and effective for squelching the truth.

The old saying that 'the best antidote for lies is to tell the truth and win in the marketplace of discussion' is fine when both sides are heard. Money largely kills that.

You might want to say, 'if a media outlet lies a lot, people won't want to listen', but money trumps that. With money, they can buy a place in the market.

"The big lie" further says that with the money to repeat lies, they will persuade much of the public - leading the public to call the people on the right side the liars.

In that case, there is no good antidote.

There is one positive development to counter that - the internet. There, people who are telling the truth can get heard, somewhat.

Back to lying, it's one thing to talk about 'the government' doing something, from criminal charges for lying to things like license suspension for the less and less important broadcast licenses. It's another to discuss civil remedies - should people harmed by media lies be able to sue?

That seems pretty impractical. A lot of harms are indirect and vague, and the cost of the media is usually 'free' - subsidized by advertisers, bundled on cable, etc.

In fact ironically, people who want to pay for news without someone else paying for it introducing bias face a steep cost, and get a very limited market share.

The small number of publications like this include 'The Nation' - how many subscribers do they have to their small publication? Who here subscribes?

IMO there is no good way I see to enforce measures against the media lying, and the right to lie is important in protecting the right to tell the truth against power.

But we would do well to support measures as we used to have to localize editorial control and break up the media oligopoly of mega-corporate ownership.

Even if that requires, in the public interests, regulation or incentives to override pure market interests - much less adopting something like the BBC approach.

Here in the bay area, with nine counties directly called the bay area, we had many daily newspapers with local editorial control. Now, we have two newspaper owners - the San Francisco Chronicle, and one company that owns every other formerly independent paper, including my city's, including the formerly excellent San Jose Mercury News. I see different cities' papers for sale side by side, each with the same headlines and editorial spin from the same one owner, cut and pasted for efficiency.

We could use a media not only loyal to profit and its corporate owners. That will indirectly help with the issue of lies in the media.

One more thing, I don't think there was a 'golden age' of journalism. A century ago we had Hearst promising he could start a war.

IMO, the citizens of the US have better information available than any time in earlier US history - but money helps keep the people who take advantage small.

I can list 50 good books on the financial crisis - and perhaps 90% of Americans will have very wrong views of the topic and not have read them.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Let's review this issue of media lying for a minute.

One complication is that a lot of lies fall into opinion. Take 'Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11'. Now, that's not true, but who can PROVE that there wasn't some secret conspiracy that wasn't uncovered - so even if the odds are 1 in a million, isn't it still an opinion that it's a lie, so people can defend making the claim as opinion?

But even taking outright falsehoods - say, the birthers or some Swift Boat claims - there are big problems with trying to prevent the media from lying.

Once the mechanism is there to do so, that mechanism can be abused. When we had the Bush administration stating *as fact*, that there wasn't any doubt, that Saddam was a threat to the US with WMD, couldn't they have used any such mechanism to silence media who told 'the lie' that he might not have WMD?

Also, the public can get caught up in a view; is there much besides the right to free speech even to what's called a lie that can address wrong views - for example, if everyone believed in the deep south in 1825 that blacks could never learn to read and write, what but the rights for someone to tell 'the lie' that they could would help that wrong view get attacked?

The measures against the lies quickly become the measures against the truth in the hands of the corrupt.

However, as nice as it would be to say that that addresses the problem, as if the truth-tellers can just tell the truth, the fact is that money is a tool for lying.

Money buys the media, the airing of opinion. It's a very corrupting factor and effective for squelching the truth.

The old saying that 'the best antidote for lies is to tell the truth and win in the marketplace of discussion' is fine when both sides are heard. Money largely kills that.

You might want to say, 'if a media outlet lies a lot, people won't want to listen', but money trumps that. With money, they can buy a place in the market.

"The big lie" further says that with the money to repeat lies, they will persuade much of the public - leading the public to call the people on the right side the liars.

In that case, there is no good antidote.

There is one positive development to counter that - the internet. There, people who are telling the truth can get heard, somewhat.

Back to lying, it's one thing to talk about 'the government' doing something, from criminal charges for lying to things like license suspension for the less and less important broadcast licenses. It's another to discuss civil remedies - should people harmed by media lies be able to sue?

That seems pretty impractical. A lot of harms are indirect and vague, and the cost of the media is usually 'free' - subsidized by advertisers, bundled on cable, etc.

In fact ironically, people who want to pay for news without someone else paying for it introducing bias face a steep cost, and get a very limited market share.

The small number of publications like this include 'The Nation' - how many subscribers do they have to their small publication? Who here subscribes?

IMO there is no good way I see to enforce measures against the media lying, and the right to lie is important in protecting the right to tell the truth against power.

But we would do well to support measures as we used to have to localize editorial control and break up the media oligopoly of mega-corporate ownership.

Even if that requires, in the public interests, regulation or incentives to override pure market interests - much less adopting something like the BBC approach.

Here in the bay area, with nine counties directly called the bay area, we had many daily newspapers with local editorial control. Now, we have two newspaper owners - the San Francisco Chronicle, and one company that owns every other formerly independent paper, including my city's, including the formerly excellent San Jose Mercury News. I see different cities' papers for sale side by side, each with the same headlines and editorial spin from the same one owner, cut and pasted for efficiency.

We could use a media not only loyal to profit and its corporate owners. That will indirectly help with the issue of lies in the media.

One more thing, I don't think there was a 'golden age' of journalism. A century ago we had Hearst promising he could start a war.

IMO, the citizens of the US have better information available than any time in earlier US history - but money helps keep the people who take advantage small.

I can list 50 good books on the financial crisis - and perhaps 90% of Americans will have very wrong views of the topic and not have read them.

I don't think information is really any better, it's just easier to obtain. Both sides will continue to cherry pick what to put on the net and ignore glaring details to help further their cause.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Fern, I'd like to congratulate you for taking responsibility for your error.

But as usual, I can't, because you didn't.

I watch enough MSNBC etc to know what those channels were/are doing; or rather, what their their talking heads were/are doing.

Going back years, they have been bashing Iraq and GWB. Heck, in the leadup to the 2006 elections the Dems were attacking the war, and they ran on a platform of ending it (which they didn't, of course). Their friends in MSNBC etc were happy to help that charge by bashing the war etc.

As usual, you have no point.

Fern
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I watch enough MSNBC etc to know what those channels were/are doing; or rather, what their their talking heads were/are doing.

Going back years, they have been bashing Iraq and GWB. Heck, in the leadup to the 2006 elections the Dems were attacking the war, and they ran on a platform of ending it (which they didn't, of course). Their friends in MSNBC etc were happy to help that charge by bashing the war etc.

As usual, you have no point.

Fern

they never "bashed" the war, they were in it's pocket the whole time. They got on Bush's back for being unpopular and gave him literally years. They even fired their only non-corporate-line toting commentator when Bush was "too popular" to criticize. (even though MILLIONS were in the streets the corporate media here was too busy kissing ass) msnbc is same mainstream shit as fox, they are just out for ratings and war profiteering instead of full blown pro-wrestling pro-republican format that fox is out for.
 
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KGB

Diamond Member
May 11, 2000
3,042
0
0
I'll begin taking Fox News seriously when they hire an ombudsman.