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Fox Analyst: 1st American To Shoot Down Domestic Spy Drone 'Will Become A Folk Hero'

SandEagle

SandEagle

Lifer
http://www.businessinsider.com/fox-...stic-spy-drone-will-become-a-folk-hero-2012-5

Charles Krauthammer, the conservative columnist spoke about the use of drones for domestic spying last night. He blasted the idea:
"A drone is a high-tech version of an old army. It ought to be used in Somalia to hunt bad guys but not in America. Yes you can say we have satellites, we have Google Street, we have everything else, but that is no reason to accept a society where you are always watched by the government.
"I would predict the first guy who uses a second amendment weapon to bring a drone down who is hovering over his house will become a folk hero."
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video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?f&v=-IVQVTVMgWQ

how soon before we start seeing these drones out in public? i got to agree with old chuckie that there's no justification in having these just floating out in civilian population. maybe to catch criminals, sure. but i don't want them recording me while i randomly kick dogs while walking down the street.
 
I don't see what the big deal is. If they cops can fly helicopters, they should be able to fly drones that do the same.
 
senseamp said:
I don't see what the big deal is. If they cops can fly helicopters, they should be able to fly drones that do the same.
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How often do you see police helicopters just flying around? They don't, they are used for specific purposes. The drones will be cheaper and easier to utilize and will undoubtedly be used for general spying on the masses.
 
CPA said:
How often do you see police helicopters just flying around? They don't, they are used for specific purposes. The drones will be cheaper and easier to utilize and will undoubtedly be used for general spying on the masses.
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Are you OK with cops using drones for same purposes they use helicopters for now?
 
senseamp said:
I don't see what the big deal is. If they cops can fly helicopters, they should be able to fly drones that do the same.
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Its the same issue as having cameras everywhere and their inevitable misuse as tools for political intimidation. Drones are worse than cameras (which are fixed in place) since they can be taken anywhere to take surveillance video surreptitiously for who knows what purposes.
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/vista/article_e6de1f76-cf32-59be-8065-6baaa3104f5e.html
 
The difference btwn drones and helicopters is that helicopters are large expensive and noisy to operate and so it self limits the types of abuse that can occur. Your local PD just can't go out buy a whole bunch of helicopters and run them 24x7 going everywhere and collecting juicy infra cam videos at night.
 
senseamp said:
I don't see what the big deal is. If they cops can fly helicopters, they should be able to fly drones that do the same.
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What if it were possible to have a nanodrone that flew over the head of every citizen recording everything they do and say in public?

Not really breaking any new ground there - you mention the visuals, if a police officer overhears you in public he can act on it - at some point it becomes oppressive?

I find drones very tempting for the anti-crime value they could have; and I find them something I'm very wary of as a growth of 'police power' - including potential abuse.

Really, drones seem to be an almost sci-fi move towards an overbearing security state, see everything, making society not 'feel as free'.

Even if we don't point our finger at a difference in principle between police helicoptors and drones, there's a creeping difference that makes people feel less free.

Drones seem to be a menace to the 'culture of freedom', for all the benefit they can provide. We all clap our hands as they are effective for 'monitoring and killing terrorists', as an alternative to the more difficult and dangerous use of troops for the purpose, but they're clearly a menace as well, that can be used for more and more.

Imagine the government required a small explosive device to be imlpanted in every person, so that in the case of a threat, they could remotely blow it up. What a great idea that is, when it saves the lives of hostages, when it stops a terrorist in the act from killing more people.

Sometimes, I'm on the side of more effective tools - all police wearing recording cams, for example - and others, the 'culture of freedom' outweighs effective tools' benefits.

I am not comfortable with domestic drones - and lean towards not liking them in use anywhere but a war zone.

And if we can fly them over Iran, why can't Iran fly them over us? And any other nation that wants to?

There's that sort of honeymoon of hypocrisy where it seems great when we're the only ones with the technology and we don't care about their rights, until they get drones.

But this has been a gradual escalation, since we've launched spy satellites, and before that spy planes over other nations.

It shouldn't be a terrible surprise how that eventually comes back to bite our own rights.
 
soundforbjt said:
Drones can't hover.
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Sure they can.

air_uav_a160t_1k_test_payload_lg.jpg
 
Craig234 said:
What if it were possible to have a nanodrone that flew over the head of every citizen recording everything they do and say in public?
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It is only a matter of time on the technology scale of miniaturization than extremely small drones are viable. The paranoid part of my brain imagines an extremely tiny drone that is lethal. Maybe it has a cyanide needle on it, or the operator can fly it right up someones nose.

I know it sounds crazy, but does anyone doubt the technology that will allow this is on the way, if not here already?

I would hope that domestic drones are a subject that the left and right can unite on, our privacy has already been eroded enough.
 
Whatever that commntator says about the first drone shooter being a hero, have no doubt that's not how it would play out legally for the person.

The second amendment isn't the right to use arms - especially against government security resources. The guy would legally be a 'terrorist' and face serious charges.

That's why the place for addressing the issue is politically before the new law making the US 'homeland' into a military theatre - which has already happened - leads to more and more encroachments. This is an issue where 'liberals' complaining about how the public demanding security to such an extent that they vote for anyone offering it make a mistake in losing freedom and rights - which sadly many of them are not too concerned about. Politicians are generally punished a lot more for failures of security.

And so the politiicans are pressured to cut corners on right in the interest of preventing any attacks. Warantless wiretapping, NSA monitoring US communications, etc.

(I understand, many right-wingers share these concerns and even are paranoid about them, when Democrats are in power).

I'm not totally unsympathetic to the security side. It's very, very hard to find a conspiracy. A lot of this information is very useful in a good cause.

When my house has been burglarized, wouldn't I like to have had the police have a security video of the street that could catch the people?

On the other hand, do we want the government knowing everyone who has visited a house if they want to for bad reasons?

It's not always easy to draw these lines, and while the courts could offer some protection, they can be undermined. Note the special court to approve security requests approves virtually every request - and is still attacked by many politicians for being an unjustified check on government's power.

Developments in the tools of terrorism, more effctive weapons and communication, demand responses in the rules restricting government.

And whatever balance is struck, political opponents will attack it as either weak on security or tyrannical. How were opponents of the Patriot Act attacked politically?
 
There is no expectation of privacy from above. I could see if a hovering drone was peeking into your window from your backyard. I think as long as drones stay above the same height helicopters have to stay above, they should be OK.
 
This is an issue where progressives and libertarians can get together to throw out the police state moderates.

:thumbsup: to Craig for caring for the Bill of Rights.
 
bononos said:
Its the same issue as having cameras everywhere and their inevitable misuse as tools for political intimidation. Drones are worse than cameras (which are fixed in place) since they can be taken anywhere to take surveillance video surreptitiously for who knows what purposes.
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/vista/article_e6de1f76-cf32-59be-8065-6baaa3104f5e.html
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No one seemed to care that the Patriot Act authorized spying on each and every phone call and email. And it's still going on. Why do you care if they're talking pictures, too? We gotta be safe from the Terrurists somehow, amirite?
 
senseamp said:
There is no expectation of privacy from above. I could see if a hovering drone was peeking into your window from your backyard. I think as long as drones stay above the same height helicopters have to stay above, they should be OK.
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Why not just extend this to having TSA agent waiting outside everyone's door? No expectation of privacy in 'public'. Apparently unreasonable search and seizure only applies to behind your door, prepare to undress and bend over if you decide you need a job, or some food.

There's a reason warrants exist. General blanket surveillance over everything exceeds the rightful role of any government.
 
davmat787 said:
A drone is simply another name for an unmanned aerial vehicle, it could be a helicopter or an airplane type.
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Can a drone apply to traffic cameras? I'm not talking about the ones that send you speeding tickets and running red lights either.
 
I think I get it. Obama uses drones to kill terrorists, garnering praise from Americans so now we have to make drones a plot to take over America.
 
senseamp said:
There is no expectation of privacy from above. I could see if a hovering drone was peeking into your window from your backyard. I think as long as drones stay above the same height helicopters have to stay above, they should be OK.
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Ones privacy from the government should not be dependent on whatever the latest technology allows the government to push the envelope.

You would really be ok with a fleet of Homeland Security drones buzzing around you city? And for what reason, preemptive crime fighting?

You give the government an inch, and they take a mile.
 
Jaskalas said:
This is an issue where progressives and libertarians can get together to throw out the police state moderates.

:thumbsup: to Craig for caring for the Bill of Rights.
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Agreed, I echoed the same sentiment in post 14 that this is something the left and right should be able to come together on. Now, whether the R's and D's get on board is a whole different issue.
 
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