Four out of 10 desert new Iraqi security force when under fire

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...005/02/02/ixworld.html
Col Ahmed Ibrahim, an officer in the new Iraqi army, should be taking the fight to insurgents in the northern town of Mosul.

Instead he sits in an almost empty barracks at a United States Army base, mourning the desertion of most of his men. The future of Iraq's security rests upon the shoulders of men such as Col Ibrahim, but so far the country's security forces have performed disastrously whenever confronted with determined insurgent activity.

Following Sunday's election, the focus is now on training enough men in uniform to allow the American and British armed forces to begin leaving. Coalition commanders admit that, among the 125,000 policemen and soldiers trained so far, the rate of desertion is as high as 40 per cent.

The desertions are not evenly distributed around the country, with forces in the British-controlled south and Kurdish north performing well. But crucially, where the insurgency is strongest in the Sunni heartlands, Iraqi security forces have failed to stand firm.

For Col Ibrahim, a former Ba'athist officer, a few days in early November were enough to send his unit packing. Insurgents, on the run from the US assault of Fallujah, stormed police stations in Mosul and ransacked a recently built $90 million (£48 million) army base where Col Ibrahim's men were to be based.

Seven hundred of his men left their units, and Mosul's police force completely disbanded.

There were similar mass desertions last April during a nationwide revolt. "My men were scared away by the violence," said the colonel.

American commanders choose to focus on the positive aspects of rebuilding Iraq's security forces.

"When I arrived in the country in September we had one Iraq army battalion ready for action. Now there are 22," Lt-Gen David Patraeus, the man in charge of the training programme, said in an interview.

He said that about 3,500 Iraqi policemen, and several thousand soldiers, were being trained each month, which was more than offsetting the rate of desertion.

Half of a projected 270,000-strong security force has now been trained, said Gen Patraeus, although he declined to set a timetable for the completion of his work, a deadline ultimately linked with the withdrawal of US troops from the country.

"The fact is we've turned the corner. We're well on the way to having a competent security force in place," said Gen Patraeus.

Far from abating, the problems faced by Col Ibrahim and other commanders in Sunni regions seem set to remain. As a national army, soldiers are drawn from around the country, but are rarely able to return home because of the dangers of travelling through Sunni areas. When they do, many chose to stay at home.

Officers, predominantly Sunni Arabs and drawn from the ranks of former Ba'athists, face the additional problem of living nearby, with their families under constant insurgent threat.

British officers in the south are now confidently talking about a "draw-back" of their troops over the course of the year, with units currently on active combat duty switching to advisory roles alongside Iraqi forces.

But such progress in other parts of the country is scant consolation for Col Ibrahim, a Sunni Arab from Mosul.
Looks like Gen. Patraeus is reading from the Kindasleazy Rice talking points memo. Smart man if he wants to keep his job. But, that's bad for the truth.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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There were similar mass desertions last April during a nationwide revolt. "My men were scared away by the violence," said the colonel.

American commanders choose to focus on the positive aspects of rebuilding Iraq's security forces.
Of course they did!
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
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Better than I thought - 6/10 stand their ground. I bet that's better than the Polish conscripts in WW2!
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Better than I thought - 6/10 stand their ground. I bet that's better than the Polish conscripts in WW2!

And we all know how well the Polish arm was during WW2. Frace could have rolled right over them.
 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
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If the desertion rate were 0%, Conjur would be posting that the U.S. must be forcing them to serve, or we are lying about the numbers, or about how Bush lied about something...

Yawn.. next thread.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: Crimson
If the desertion rate were 0%, Conjur would be posting that the U.S. must be forcing them to serve, or we are lying about the numbers, or about how Bush lied about something...

Yawn.. next thread.
I thought you left? Returned to troll and thread-crap some more?
 

Siwy

Senior member
Sep 13, 2002
556
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Originally posted by: alchemize
Better than I thought - 6/10 stand their ground. I bet that's better than the Polish conscripts in WW2!

The difference is that Iraqi forces have much better equipment and resources than insurgents, while the opposite was true with the Polish army in WW2.
 

Grunt03

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2000
3,131
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this is old news, Imean very old news.
they will learn, it will take time but they will learn
and start dealing with issue.

Hopefully we will not be there
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
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no, you don't understand, the 4 out of 10 are the ones helping with the inside jobs so its good they leave.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
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40% Iraqi defection from combat situations is a bit better than the 50% + that we had in Viet Nam.

Over there they were also know to turn and fire on the U.S. troops that they were on manuvers with
when they came under fire or observation from the VC, the enemy among us.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: Train
but compared to what?

whats the insurgents desertion rate?
Probably approaching 0%. The ones that desert do so via detonating explosives strapped to their body.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Train
but compared to what?

whats the insurgents desertion rate?
Probably approaching 0%. The ones that desert do so via detonating explosives strapped to their body.
and conjur is so proud
Jesus H. Fvcking Christ!!

WTF is wrong you fvcking idiots lately? First CsG accuses me of reveling in joy at the deaths of our soldiers and now you insult me in a similar vein.

Get.

A.

Fvcking.

Life.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
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Yeesh. Well, at least a slim majority stood its ground.

They are of course fighting for a country whose democratic rebirth makes it, what, two days old today? I doubt any man is not scared when fire is directed at him. It's things like resolve to fight for his country and not show cowardice in front of his peers that keeps him rooted to the spot. That's going to take time.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,861
68
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www.bing.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Train
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Train
but compared to what?

whats the insurgents desertion rate?
Probably approaching 0%. The ones that desert do so via detonating explosives strapped to their body.
and conjur is so proud
Jesus H. Fvcking Christ!!

WTF is wrong you fvcking idiots lately? First CsG accuses me of reveling in joy at the deaths of our soldiers and now you insult me in a similar vein.

Get.

A.

Fvcking.

Life.
well actions speak louder than words. Why do you seem so hell bent on proving the insurgents are "better" in any way?

Why do you only post bad news about Iraq, and downplay or spin the good news into bad?

I do neet to get a life, I spend way too much time on these forums, though not as nearly as much as you. Regardless, does this invalidate my questioning of your motives? obviously my statement was going to strike a nerve, and I assumed you would get heated about it, but I wouldnt have said it if it wasnt becoming apparent to me (and apprently to others as well)