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Founder of the anti-genetically modified crops movement repudiates all past claims

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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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What is your excuse for monsanto fighting food labeling?
Monsanto is obviously worried that uninformed consumers will assume that GMO food is inferior to non-GMO food.

Should people have a basic right to know what we are eating?
What does that even mean?

Shouldn't consumers be able to read packaging without having to wade through fear-mongering labels?

Is there some rational reason to believe it matters whether you eat GMO or non-GMO food?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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No, I don't. Why don't you summarize it for me, since you're the one that brought it up? Particularly the part about labeling.
See my edited post above about the FDA regulating the word "organic."

If organic foods can be regulated and labeled, why can't GMO foods?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Do you have netflix? If so, watch "Farmageddon"




http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparency/Basics/ucm214871.htm

If the FDA can regulate the use of the word "organic", why cant we see GMO labeled foods?
See my edited post above about the FDA regulating the word "organic."

If organic foods can be regulated and labeled, why can't GMO foods?
Organic is about implying your food is superior. The FDA insures that companies do not make false claims.

Imagine if instead people were fighting to label all non organic food as "in-organic".

What is keeping people from creating a "non-GMO" label?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Organic is about implying your food is superior. The FDA insures that companies do not make false claims.

Imagine if instead people were fighting to label all non organic food as "in-organic". What is keeping people from creating a "non-GMO" label?
Lets go back to the opening post.

Part of your comment nehalem is why people do not trust GMO foods. If other foods are required to be truthful in their labeling, why not GMO?

Monsanto fighting to stop truth in labeling makes people uneasy.

The only issue I have with GMO and monsanto, if other foods are required to label their foods, then lets label GMO.

Its like monsanto is a thief in the night, and is trying to sneak into homes.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Lets go back to the opening post.

Part of your comment nehalem is why people do not trust GMO foods. If other foods are required to be truthful in their labeling, why not GMO?
How are they being untruthful? Are they saying their food does not contain GMO when it actually does?

Monsanto fighting to stop truth in labeling makes people uneasy.

The only issue I have with GMO and monsanto, if other foods are required to label their foods, then lets label GMO.

Its like monsanto is a thief in the night, and is trying to sneak into homes.
No one is required to label their food as organic. This is a choice they make because it implies their food is superior to certain people and thereby justifies a higher price.

The fda insures that companies do not lie and sell non-organic food as organic.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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I don't have a problem with labeling
Thing is labeling it does nothing but provide choice to the consumer. If based on bad data they don't want to buy GMO that their right to be stupid.
There is nothing wrong with consumers knowing where the food they consume comes from.

Why would Monsanto help the anti-prop 37 crowd in California out-spend the pro-prop 37 crowd by a factor of at least 5 to 1 probably because either

a) they're hiding something embarrassing about their products

b) they're a corporation with shitty anti-competitive practices.

either way people have a right to know who they're buying their food from.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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There is nothing wrong with consumers knowing where the food they consume comes from.

Why would Monsanto help the anti-prop 37 crowd in California out-spend the pro-prop 37 crowd by a factor of at least 5 to 1 probably because either

a) they're hiding something embarrassing about their products

b) they're a corporation with shitty anti-competitive practices.

either way people have a right to know who they're buying their food from.
If I was Monsanto, I'd spend tons of money to defeat that proposition too, as it would hurt their bottom line. The forced-labeling is nothing but fear-mongering at this point just because of the unwarranted stigma that has been attached to GMO food. It really has little to do with either points a or b.
 
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TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
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If I was Monsanto, I'd spend tons of money to defeat that proposition too, as it would hurt their bottom line. The forced-labeling is nothing but fear-mongering at this point just because of the unwarranted stigma that has been attached to GMO food. It really has little to do with either points a or b.
If Monsanto is so sure their products are safe then why not get behind the labelling of GMO products?

Just playing devils advocate. My concern is that they are so strong armed about spreading their product around. And then vigorously defend it to the point of court action/lawsuits. In my book it makes it seem like they are hiding something. Like someone else said it makes me very uneasy when a company does such things. Reminds me of the tobacco industry back in the day.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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The forced-labeling is nothing but fear-mongering at this point just because of the unwarranted stigma that has been attached to GMO food. It really has little to do with either points a or b.
But other foods are forced to label calories, nutrition,,, and other information.

Cigarettes are labeled with warnings, but people still smoke.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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If Monsanto is so sure their products are safe then why not get behind the labelling of GMO products?
Because you do not stick special "warning" labels on products that are perfectly safe. Merely putting the label there implies their product is in someway inferior or unsafe.

It is absolutely no different than Creationists wanting to put special stickers on biology textbooks saying that "theory of evolution is a theory". Putting the sticker on the textbook implies that there is something wrong with the science behind evolution.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Because you do not stick special "warning" labels on products that are perfectly safe. Merely putting the label there implies their product is in someway inferior or unsafe.

It is absolutely no different than Creationists wanting to put special stickers on biology textbooks saying that "theory of evolution is a theory". Putting the sticker on the textbook implies that there is something wrong with the science behind evolution.
No I don't think putting a small label, either with the ingredient list or some small yet easy to understand label like they do for gluten free stuff for example(yes I realize some packaging SCREAMS GLUTEN FREE!!!!!) but I'm talking small label on the bottom corner, does not make it seem unsafe.

As far as I'm concerned people should have a right to know what is in their food. Hell in good old China GMOs have to be labeled. Along with Europe Japan, India...this is not the same thing as creationists and their bullshit about evolution. I'm asking for a label on my food so I can make an informed choice as a consumer. Why is that so difficult for some people to understand?
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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No I don't think putting a small label, either with the ingredient list or some small yet easy to understand label like they do for gluten free stuff for example(yes I realize some packaging SCREAMS GLUTEN FREE!!!!!) but I'm talking small label on the bottom corner, makes it seem unsafe.

As far as I'm concerned people should have a right to know what is in their food. Hell in good old China GMOs have to be labeled. Along with Europe Japan, India...this is not the same thing as creationists and their bullshit about evolution. I'm asking for a label on my food so I can make an informed choice as a consumer. Why is that so difficult for some people to understand?
If you were informed you would know there is no legitimate reason to care if there is GMOs in your food.

Wanting labels is nothing more than fear mongering.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
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If you were informed you would know there is no legitimate reason to care if there is GMOs in your food.

Wanting labels is nothing more than fear mongering.
Its not fear mongering. They have to label food when they add vitamins or minerals how is this any different? They don't harm you either. I just want to know what foods they are in.

Also I care about GMOs because most studies on GMOs are funded by the very companies that create them. Science is only as valid as its data and moreover continual impartial research should be performed on something so varible as genetic modifcation. And I'm sure you know when things are funded by a clearly partisan benefactor its really easy to find the data your benefactor wants.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Its not fear mongering. They have to label food when they add vitamins or minerals how is this any different? They don't harm you either.
People want to know about vitamins and minerals because they provide benefits to you.

No one has ever claimed that there are benefits to eating GMO and it would be insane to believe such. The only reason for the labeling is so people can avoid GMO because of fear mongering.

I just want to know what foods they are in.
Why do you care? Is it because you want to avoid them despite having no real reason for wanting to do so?

Also I care about GMOs because most studies on GMOs are funded by the very companies that create them. Science is only as valid as its data and moreover continual impartial research should be performed on something so varible as genetic modifcation. And I'm sure you know when things are funded by a clearly partisan benefactor its really easy to find the data your benefactor wants.
And what reason is there to think that GMO are any more likely to be detrimental than non-GMO food? What vector would this negative action occur through?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Because you do not stick special "warning" labels on products that are perfectly safe. Merely putting the label there implies their product is in someway inferior or unsafe.
Listing cholesterol implies you will get heart disease?

Listing sodium implies you will get high blood pressure?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Listing cholesterol implies you will get heart disease?

Listing sodium implies you will get high blood pressure?
Cholesterol and sodium are listed as things you may want to avoid.

Vitamin C is listed as something you may want to consume.

Why do you think certain people want GMO listed on the label?
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
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People want to know about vitamins and minerals because they provide benefits to you.

No one has ever claimed that there are benefits to eating GMO and it would be insane to believe such. The only reason for the labeling is so people can avoid GMO because of fear mongering.
Please explain why it is fear mongering? Is it fear mongering to label trans fat? Or any of the other 'bad' things in food? Why is asking for a simple label fear mongering?

Why do you care? Is it because you want to avoid them despite having no real reason for wanting to do so?
Nope, it's a couple simple reasons. One, I want to know what is in my food. Simple as that, no malice, no food avoidance or any of that, just simple knowledge for myself. I also care as a nurse, people should know what they are putting into their bodies, good, bad or neutral. Again this has nothing to do with any malice.

And what reason is there to think that GMO are any more likely to be detrimental than non-GMO food? What vector would this negative action occur through?
Those are two great questions. And two questions that I can't answer, partially because of a lack of impartial evidence. If you have an impartial answer I'd love to hear it. Understand that I'm coming at this from my own love of science, research and critical thinking. And my critical thinking looks at the body of evidence and see lots of research, lots of experts funded by these very companies that are creating GMO products. The veracity of any such research MUST be called into question. It is the just and moral thing to do if you claim to love science. It is the just and moral thing to do as a human being. I'd have no problem backing GMOs(destructive corporate agriculture practices aside but I digress) but for me I don't see lots of impartial research out there.

Instead I see a secretive large multinational corporation in Mosanto that likes to silence dissent with money and legal action, and basically says don't bother researching our products they are perfectly safe because our research says so. Sorry that is not good science.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Please explain why it is fear mongering? Is it fear mongering to label trans fat? Or any of the other 'bad' things in food? Why is asking for a simple label fear mongering?
Its fear mongering because there is no reason to believe that GMO is bad for you. I have never heard any proposed theoretical mechanism that would make GMO harmful. People have been influencing the genetics of the food they eat for 1000s of years.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Cholesterol and sodium are listed as things you may want to avoid.

Vitamin C is listed as something you may want to consume.

Why do you think certain people want GMO listed on the label?
People who want to avoid GM crops should not be given the choice?


Its fear mongering because there is no reason to believe that GMO is bad for you. I have never heard any proposed theoretical mechanism that would make GMO harmful. People have been influencing the genetics of the food they eat for 1000s of years.
You are trying to put cross pollination and gene splicing on the same level.
 

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