Forza 2 Enduro Race Series - the all new bring it (with "FLAIR")

[Kabob]

When you start adding the Skyline you're getting into supercar territory, definately not GT cars. XK I already added. And the Soarer was the car I mentioned above (to replace the Supra RZ).

 

[QuikWgn]

BMW M3 E92 2008 Germany $95,000 --- March DLC Car Pack B666 6.5/4.6/4.1/4.3 FR 420hp 295tq 3649lbs
2002 Skyline GT-R V Spec II Nur (R34) B666 FA 345hp 294tq 3,439lbs 6.1 5.2 4.1 4.2

I wouldn't say Supercar. The E92 is the same PI, is .4 faster. .6 slower in ACC, and the handling is almost deadnuts even. If we were going beyond A820, say into U Class territory it certainly would change the situation.

 

[GCS]

Alright guys since the first Enduro race is only 10 days out I would like to nail down the car list today if at all possible.

Looking for any last minute suggestions and or thoughts.

Thanks

Greg

 

[Supermercado]

I'm cool with pretty much all the ones listed recently. I agree that we should nail down the car list today if possible. And we should also decide for sure if we're doing teams and if so, how, who's paired with who to make things the most fair, etc.

 

[Supermercado]

Just a thought here... we should do a race at the Nurburgring, 6 or 7 laps, probably. Maybe make it the final race, possibly double points or something.

 

[GCS]

Ok to try an "finalize" things I guess I will step up and Executive Decision a few things. If there is a major issue with any of these things then we can chat about it but for the moment it may be best to just say this is it.

Teams -- while I would prefer this option myself several key points have been brought to my attention so I think for the first Enduro Challenge we should be on our own. IF we want to help one another tune, practice etc that's ok but overall I think this time it's every man for himself. I think that teams should definitely be in effect for the 2nd Enduro Challenge (yes I intend to do another one so long as we don't all hate each other after this, LOL!). Executive decision ...

Qualifying -- while I really like this idea I am just not sold on there being an efficient way to do it w/o eating up a bunch of time and or wasting a lap etc. --- Still on the debate table

Penalties -- again I think this is another good idea but not sure if there is an easy way to handle this in the game. Reviewing a 25 lap race every time would be a pain. I think we have to trust one another to be fair. If you cause a wreck than own up to it and penalize yourself (forced pit??). If there is serious problem/controversy I say we handle it at that time with a review of the race after the fact and judge the incident together and determine the penalty but ONLY if the parties involved feel this is necessary. Executive Decision ...

Restrictions -- there are some real differences of opinion here. Some want them, some don't. I think it's fair to have "some" sort of restriction other than PI BUT if the cars are all pretty equal to start with I can see that restrictions are most likely not necessary. I am willing to defer to the later and so no restrictions other than PI. Executive Decision ...

PI Structure -- what is posted will be the way we go. Executive Decision ...

Car List -- I am proposing the list below for the first Enduro Challenge. If some cars seem grossly overmatched we may need to exclude them and I will have to trust that ALL of us can be honest about it. I intend to take some time and try each one tomorrow if I can squeeze in 2 hours to do so.


Aston Martin DB9 Coupe A710 FR 457hp 420tq 3770lbs 6.5/4.4/4.0/4.3
BMW M3 E46 B578 FR 333hp 262tq 3415lbs 5.7/4.5/4.1/4.2
Caddilac CTS-V C549 400hp 395tq 3907lbs 6.4/4.5/3.6/3.8
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6 C537 FR 210Hp 214Tq 3142lbs 4.9/3.4/3.5/3.8
Ferrari 575 Maranello A751 FR 515hp 434tq 3815lbs 7.4/5.6/4.3/4.6
Ferrari 612 Scaglietti A739 FR 540hp 434tq 4123lbs 7.0/5.3/4.3/4.5
Infinity G35 Coupe C453 FR 280hp 270tq 3485lbs 5.7/3.9/3.6/3.9
Maserati GranSport B631 FR 390hp 333tq 3682lbs 5.9/4.8/4.1/4.3
Maserati GranTurismo B610 FR 405hp 339tq 4145lbs 6.0/4.4/4.0/4.3(DLC Car)
Panoz Esperante GTLM B695 FR 420hp 390tq 3384lbs 6.5/5.0/4.1/4.4
Toyota Supra RZ B555 FR 326hp 315tq 3285lbs 5.8/4.4/3.8/4.1
TVR Tuscan S A751 FR 380hp 320tq 2425lbs 6.6/5.6/4.2/4.4
Jaguar XK B563 FR 300hp 303tp 3516lbs 5.3/4.2/4.2/4.6
2002 Z382 Soarer (SC430) B582 FR 353hp 412tq 3,814lbs 6.1 4.5 4.0 4.3
Audi S5 2007 Germany B568 5.9/4.5/3.7/4.0 FA 354hp 324tq 3594lbs (DLC Car)
BMW M3 E92 2008 Germany B666 6.5/4.6/4.1/4.3 FR 420hp 295tq 3649lbs (DLC Car)



I am going to say that is your list. I will listen to arguments as to include or exclude cars but lets put a deadline on the final list as tonight by 12 midnight EST please.


Did I forget anything?


Thanks

Greg

 

[Supermercado]

I still want teams but I'll go with the group.

I'm okay with the proposed car list but like you said, some testing will be needed to make sure there's not some crazy dark horse that'll kill everything else on the list. I'll probably be on some today (and maybe tomorrow, too) fooling around with some of the cars.

 

[getbush]

I can't do teams simply b/c I can almost guarantee I will miss a few races due to work and it wouldn't be fair to my teammate.

 

[QuikWgn]

So it appears as far as cars go you want to go with a FR combo except the single Audi AWD. We have IIRC one OEM turbo in the Supra, all others are NA. I think we either need to stick to one platform(fr/na) and ditch the others or we need to have more than one AWD or forced induction option(I admit being a turbo AWD fanboy here).

We need to make sure everyone has the free DLC car out of every pack so they can see the others if someone chooses a DLC car. We also need to make sure everyone has Road America since its on the schedule but a DLC track.

One concern I have is livery. Since these are pretty high end cars finding on in the AH with livery is easily a 600-1,000k proposition. I don't have those kind of credits. I have I think 6 cars on the list none of them in livery. Do we have someone willing to do paint or are we dropping the requirement?

 

[GCS]

Quik,

Paint the car however you want. Race painted means simply that it should look like a race car, ie sponsor/manufacturer decals, car # etc. No themed paint (ie Superman, Naked women etc). Car can be any color scheme you want. Preference would be that we all have a different color scheme so that we aren't all Black & White but that is less of an issue since we are not doing teams.

Simply purchase a car (AH or Dealer) and then paint accordingly.

I believe if you ask nice Ty can do a # plate for you but looking back at post of yours I think you have that covered ok.

I was simply trying to make this look more "race like" vs. cool super hero or college themed paint jobs.

Greg


EDIT -- to the best of my knowledge all of the folks in this series are good to go in DLC but a good point nonetheless.

EDIT2 -- As far as DT goes you need to look at the cars because some may have an AWD upgrade option. They may not be "stock" that way but perhaps it is an option. I am not sure though since I am working and cannot look it up.

 

[GCS]

Originally posted by: getbush
I can't do teams simply b/c I can almost guarantee I will miss a few races due to work and it wouldn't be fair to my teammate.

No worries Arby.

We are skipping teams for this Enduro Challenge.

Greg

 

[QuikWgn]

Are we open to adding more AWD choices?

Audi S4 VS 2004 C506 5.7 4.0 3.6 3.8 4.8 FA 340 302 3825
Audi RS 4 2006 B673 6.5 5.1 3.9 4.2 6.3 FA 420 317 3685
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 V-Spec II Nür 2002 B666 6.1 5.2 4.1 4.2 8.1 FA 345 294 3439
Subaru Impreza WRX STI Tommy Kaira M20b 1998 B642 5.7 5.2 4.2 4.4 8.9 FA 350 332 3174
Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 Tommy Kaira 2002 B665 5.4 4.9 4.3 4.4 8.9 FA 394 309 3395
Subaru Impreza S204 STI 2006 B618 4.8 5.5 4.9 4.2 4.4 6.5 FA 320 319 3200
Audi RS 6 2003 B613 6.6 4.6 3.5 3.8 6.5 FA 450 414 4050
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8 MR 2004 B573 5.1 5.0 3.8 4.0 5.6 FA 325 332 3086

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: GCS
Ok to try an "finalize" things I guess I will step up and Executive Decision a few things. If there is a major issue with any of these things then we can chat about it but for the moment it may be best to just say this is it.

Teams -- while I would prefer this option myself several key points have been brought to my attention so I think for the first Enduro Challenge we should be on our own. IF we want to help one another tune, practice etc that's ok but overall I think this time it's every man for himself. I think that teams should definitely be in effect for the 2nd Enduro Challenge (yes I intend to do another one so long as we don't all hate each other after this, LOL!). Executive decision ...

Qualifying -- while I really like this idea I am just not sold on there being an efficient way to do it w/o eating up a bunch of time and or wasting a lap etc. --- Still on the debate table

Penalties -- again I think this is another good idea but not sure if there is an easy way to handle this in the game. Reviewing a 25 lap race every time would be a pain. I think we have to trust one another to be fair. If you cause a wreck than own up to it and penalize yourself (forced pit??). If there is serious problem/controversy I say we handle it at that time with a review of the race after the fact and judge the incident together and determine the penalty but ONLY if the parties involved feel this is necessary. Executive Decision ...

Restrictions -- there are some real differences of opinion here. Some want them, some don't. I think it's fair to have "some" sort of restriction other than PI BUT if the cars are all pretty equal to start with I can see that restrictions are most likely not necessary. I am willing to defer to the later and so no restrictions other than PI. Executive Decision ...

PI Structure -- what is posted will be the way we go. Executive Decision ...

Car List -- I am proposing the list below for the first Enduro Challenge. If some cars seem grossly overmatched we may need to exclude them and I will have to trust that ALL of us can be honest about it. I intend to take some time and try each one tomorrow if I can squeeze in 2 hours to do so.


Aston Martin DB9 Coupe A710 FR 457hp 420tq 3770lbs 6.5/4.4/4.0/4.3
BMW M3 E46 B578 FR 333hp 262tq 3415lbs 5.7/4.5/4.1/4.2
Caddilac CTS-V C549 400hp 395tq 3907lbs 6.4/4.5/3.6/3.8
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6 C537 FR 210Hp 214Tq 3142lbs 4.9/3.4/3.5/3.8
Ferrari 575 Maranello A751 FR 515hp 434tq 3815lbs 7.4/5.6/4.3/4.6
Ferrari 612 Scaglietti A739 FR 540hp 434tq 4123lbs 7.0/5.3/4.3/4.5
Infinity G35 Coupe C453 FR 280hp 270tq 3485lbs 5.7/3.9/3.6/3.9
Maserati GranSport B631 FR 390hp 333tq 3682lbs 5.9/4.8/4.1/4.3
Maserati GranTurismo B610 FR 405hp 339tq 4145lbs 6.0/4.4/4.0/4.3(DLC Car)
Panoz Esperante GTLM B695 FR 420hp 390tq 3384lbs 6.5/5.0/4.1/4.4
Toyota Supra RZ B555 FR 326hp 315tq 3285lbs 5.8/4.4/3.8/4.1
TVR Tuscan S A751 FR 380hp 320tq 2425lbs 6.6/5.6/4.2/4.4
Jaguar XK B563 FR 300hp 303tp 3516lbs 5.3/4.2/4.2/4.6
2002 Z382 Soarer (SC430) B582 FR 353hp 412tq 3,814lbs 6.1 4.5 4.0 4.3
Audi S5 2007 Germany B568 5.9/4.5/3.7/4.0 FA 354hp 324tq 3594lbs (DLC Car)
BMW M3 E92 2008 Germany B666 6.5/4.6/4.1/4.3 FR 420hp 295tq 3649lbs (DLC Car)



I am going to say that is your list. I will listen to arguments as to include or exclude cars but lets put a deadline on the final list as tonight by 12 midnight EST please.


Did I forget anything?


Thanks

Greg

All these executive decisions, who made YOU boss!

Kidding, I'm fine with the rules. Although I'm going to make a specific request to a racer. Waldo, Arby, the two of you seem to have the tuning thing down, I know it's competitive but I hope you'll help some of us out?

Cars list I'm pretty much fine with, although I still think for the sake of fairness that we take the TVR Tuscan S out. Look at the HP and weight. While we might get some of the other cars to close to that weight I'm not counting on it, it's a straight up sports car (almost 800 lbs lighter than the next lightest car). I say we axe it. The Supra RZ is similar but I can handle it, at least it's a bit closer.

For qualifying I'm fine without it, but if we wanted to try it a much simpler system would be to have "qualifying" AMA style, where whenever you're practicing you're in the qualifying process. So you've got 2 weeks of qualifying, fastest to slowest time for said track. On race day we do a 1 lap race, get in order as OSJ mentioned, and set the 2nd race up to points order. That way there's some benefit for good practicing/lap times, and it'll be less likely that Arby will get stuck behind me on a track where he's obviously faster at the get go. It'd be all honor system (I can't run a 1:25 at RA and claim I did a 1:22).

No restrictions I'm also alright with, although if it starts getting ridiculous speed-wise I say we instate a HP cap, for now though I'm cool to "go with the flow."

Excited about this series!

 

[GCS]

With these cars all being fairly heavy should we look at changing the starting PI to say S900 or 950? Afterall getting the weight down will eat some serious PI and in turn leave little room for other upgrades.

Just looking for opinions.

Greg

 

[Supermercado]

I'd be fine with increasing the PI by 50 or 100. You're definitely right in that the weight reduction will take up a lot of PI. That was basically what I meant the other day when I said I was concerned about it being a heavyweight series.

 

[GCS]

My recommendation for the final list is below.

I am pretty happy with each of these and think it can be a relatively fair group cars. I dropped the 2 Ferraris as I really didn't like them.

I also think the starting PI should be 900.

Audi S4 VS 2004 C506 5.7 4.0 3.6 3.8 4.8 FA 340 302 3825
Audi RS 4 2006 B673 6.5 5.1 3.9 4.2 6.3 FA 420 317 3685
Audi RS 6 2003 B613 6.6 4.6 3.5 3.8 6.5 FA 450 414 4050
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe A710 FR 457hp 420tq 3770lbs 6.5/4.4/4.0/4.3
BMW M3 E46 B578 FR 333hp 262tq 3415lbs 5.7/4.5/4.1/4.2
Cadillac CTS-V C549 400hp 395tq 3907lbs 6.4/4.5/3.6/3.8
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6 C537 FR 210Hp 214Tq 3142lbs 4.9/3.4/3.5/3.8
Infinity G35 Coupe C453 FR 280hp 270tq 3485lbs 5.7/3.9/3.6/3.9
Maserati GranSport B631 FR 390hp 333tq 3682lbs 5.9/4.8/4.1/4.3
Maserati GranTurismo B610 FR 405hp 339tq 4145lbs 6.0/4.4/4.0/4.3(DLC Car)
Panoz Esperante GTLM B695 FR 420hp 390tq 3384lbs 6.5/5.0/4.1/4.4
Toyota Supra RZ B555 FR 326hp 315tq 3285lbs 5.8/4.4/3.8/4.1
Jaguar XK B563 FR 300hp 303tp 3516lbs 5.3/4.2/4.2/4.6
2002 Z382 Soarer (SC430) B582 FR 353hp 412tq 3,814lbs 6.1 4.5 4.0 4.3
Audi S5 2007 Germany B568 5.9/4.5/3.7/4.0 FA 354hp 324tq 3594lbs (DLC Car)
BMW M3 E92 2008 Germany B666 6.5/4.6/4.1/4.3 FR 420hp 295tq 3649lbs (DLC Car)


Unless there are no objections or additions I will call this list final.

Greg

 

[QuikWgn]

Time to play the numbers game

So far I have tried the:

Aston Martin DB9(Wicked oversteer) not for me
Audi S4 V8(under consideration)
Audi S5(under consideration)

I am a poor bastard. I'm out of credits. If someone has cars to donate I would appreciate it. I put 15 cars up for auction to help pay for enduro research.

If someone has a spare car(s) from the list below and wishes to donate it I will grovel appropriately:

BMW M3 E92
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6
Infinity G35(unless Greg includes the Nissan 350GT Skyline which is the identical car)
Jaguar XK
Maserati GS
Panoz GTLM Esperante
Toyota Supra RZ
Tom's Z382 Soarer

I will trade my Aston Martin DB9($123,000) which is @ S900 w/addtional included upgrades to take it well into U class for a comparable credit amount from the list of cars above.

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: GCS
My recommendation for the final list is below.

I am pretty happy with each of these and think it can be a relatively fair group cars. I dropped the 2 Ferraris as I really didn't like them.

I also think the starting PI should be 900.

Audi S4 VS 2004 C506 5.7 4.0 3.6 3.8 4.8 FA 340 302 3825
Audi RS 4 2006 B673 6.5 5.1 3.9 4.2 6.3 FA 420 317 3685
Audi RS 6 2003 B613 6.6 4.6 3.5 3.8 6.5 FA 450 414 4050
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe A710 FR 457hp 420tq 3770lbs 6.5/4.4/4.0/4.3
BMW M3 E46 B578 FR 333hp 262tq 3415lbs 5.7/4.5/4.1/4.2
Cadillac CTS-V C549 400hp 395tq 3907lbs 6.4/4.5/3.6/3.8
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6 C537 FR 210Hp 214Tq 3142lbs 4.9/3.4/3.5/3.8
Infinity G35 Coupe C453 FR 280hp 270tq 3485lbs 5.7/3.9/3.6/3.9
Maserati GranSport B631 FR 390hp 333tq 3682lbs 5.9/4.8/4.1/4.3
Maserati GranTurismo B610 FR 405hp 339tq 4145lbs 6.0/4.4/4.0/4.3(DLC Car)
Panoz Esperante GTLM B695 FR 420hp 390tq 3384lbs 6.5/5.0/4.1/4.4
Toyota Supra RZ B555 FR 326hp 315tq 3285lbs 5.8/4.4/3.8/4.1
Jaguar XK B563 FR 300hp 303tp 3516lbs 5.3/4.2/4.2/4.6
2002 Z382 Soarer (SC430) B582 FR 353hp 412tq 3,814lbs 6.1 4.5 4.0 4.3
Audi S5 2007 Germany B568 5.9/4.5/3.7/4.0 FA 354hp 324tq 3594lbs (DLC Car)
BMW M3 E92 2008 Germany B666 6.5/4.6/4.1/4.3 FR 420hp 295tq 3649lbs (DLC Car)


Unless there are no objections or additions I will call this list final.

Greg

I'd have commented earlier but I was doing valentine's stuff.

*editing this out* (if I don't stop suggesting car changes we're never going to race. I'll miss the Ferraris but I'm gonna shut my trap)

S900, S930, whatever works for me, heck. The more we kick up the max PI the bigger the gap between a "good" and a "bad" car are gonna be.

I'll test a few of 'em as it is. I've got few different cars I need to check on. I'm online on the AH now so I might pick up a few of these that I no longer have (although Prince of Persia got here yesterday so I'll give it a whirl).

*edit* I tried a Maserati GT last night, even with max WR it's still over 2900 lbs and it doesn't want to turn like a top. Mayhaps a better tune would help it.
Other than that I'm way cool with the series.

 

[Abel007]

The Infiniti G35 needs to be removed. After a drive-train swap it has potential leaderboard status. Also, the Tuscan seems out of whack compared to the others.

*Sorry, I was nowhere near a computer yesterday.

 

[GCS]

Hmmm ok I can take off the Infiniti.

I will redrive the Ferraris when I get home tonight. They may come back.

New list is posted and main post updated.

Aston Martin DB9 A710 FR 457hp 420tq 3770lbs 6.5/4.4/4.0/4.3
Audi S4 2004 C506 5.7 4.0 3.6 3.8 4.8 FA 340 302 3825
Audi S5 B568 324tq 3594lbs 5.9/4.5/3.7/4.0 FA 354hp (DLC Car)
Audi RS 4 B673 FA 420hp 317tq 3685lbs 6.5 5.1 3.9 4.2 6.3
Audi RS 6 B613 FA 450hp 414tq 4050lbs 6.6 4.6 3.5 3.8 6.5
BMW M3 E46 B578 FR 333hp 262tq 3415lbs 5.7/4.5/4.1/4.2
BMW M3 E92 B666 FR 420hp 295tq 3649lbs 6.5/4.6/4.1/4.3 (DLC Car)
Cadillac CTS-V C549 400hp 395tq 3907lbs 6.4/4.5/3.6/3.8
Chrysler Crossfire SRT6 C537 FR 210Hp 214Tq 3142lbs 4.9/3.4/3.5/3.8
Jaguar XK B563 FR 300hp 303tp 3516lbs 5.3/4.2/4.2/4.6
Maserati GranSport B631 FR 390hp 333tq 3682lbs 5.9/4.8/4.1/4.3
Maserati GranTurismo B610 FR 405hp 339tq 4145lbs 6.0/4.4/4.0/4.3 (DLC Car)
Panoz Esperante GTLM B695 FR 420hp 390tq 3384lbs 6.5/5.0/4.1/4.4
Toyota Supra RZ B555 FR 326hp 315tq 3285lbs 5.8/4.4/3.8/4.1
Toyota Z382 Soarer B582 FR 353hp 412tq 3,814lbs 6.1 4.5 4.0 4.3

Greg

 

[Supermercado]

So what did we decide the final PI was?

 

[Abel007]

Looks like A820 from the OP.

 

[Supermercado]

There was talk yesterday of possibly bumping to either 900 or 950 since a lot of these cars start so heavy that we won't be able to do much but weight reduction to hit 820 (or 790 if you're smoking people every race). Unless I'm imagining that...

 

[GCS]

Yeah I would prefer to go to S900 vs A820.

My only concern with S900 is that for a few of the cars I tested last night I can get pretty much everything I want in the car at that level. If I stay at A820 it forces me to go one way or the other (ie speed vs handling). Therefore I am kinda leaning towards going back to the A820.

LMK you guys thoughts.

Greg

 

[Abel007]

We might as well just use the pre-built race cars in R4 if we're going to S class don't ya think? I thought the goal was to be forced into picking/choosing and not getting everything we need/want. Maybe I misunderstood. Not that I mind or anything either way, but if it were solely my decision I'd drop it down to C or B class.