Forza 2 Enduro Race Series PART DEUX --- Starts on 7/27/09

[GCS]

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WEEK 6 RESULTS (9/22)
1st Place - Famouswings (+15 Points) (+100k Forza Credits)
2nd Place - hopeless sc (+12 Points) (+50k Forza Credits)
3rd Place - Queasy1 (+10 Points) (+10k Forza Credits)
4th Place - OneSkineeJ (+8 Points)
5th Place - WaldoJ (DNF)

WEEK 5 RESULTS (9/1)
1st Place - OneSkineeJ (+15 Points) (+100k Forza Credits)
2nd Place - Famouswings (+12 Points) (+50k Forza Credits)
3rd Place - Queasy1 (+10 Points) (+10k Forza Credits)
4th Place - hopeless sc (+8 Points)
5th Place - WaldoJ (DNF)

WEEK 4 RESULTS (8/25)
1st Place - OneSkineeJ (+15 Points) (+100k Forza Credits)
2nd Place - WaldoJ (+12 Points) (+50k Forza Credits)
3rd Place - Queasy1 (+10 Points) (+10k Forza Credits)
4th Place - Famouswings (+8 Points)
5th Place - hopeless sc (+6 Points)

WEEK 3 RESULTS (8/19)
1st Place - WaldoJ (+15 Points) (+100k Forza Credits)
2nd Place - Queasy1 (+12 Points) (+50k Forza Credits)
3rd Place - hopeless sc (+10 Points) (+10k Forza Credits)
4th Place - OneSkneeJ (+8 Points)
5th Place - Famouswings (DNF) (+0 Points)

WEEK 2 RESULTS (8/11)
1st Place - OneSkineeJ (+15 Points) (+100k Forza Credits)
2nd Place - WaldoJ (+12 Points) (+50k Forza Credits)
3rd Place - Queasy1 (+10 Points) (+10k Forza Credits)
4th Place - Famouswings (+8 Points)
5th Place - hopeless sc (+6 Points)

WEEK 1 Results (8/4)
1st Place - WaldoJ (+15 Points) (+100k Forza Credits)
2nd Place - Famouswings (+12 Points) (+50k Forza Credits)
3rd Place - OneSkineeJ (+10 Points) (+10k Forza Credits)
4th Place - Queasy1 (+8 Points)
5th Place - hopeless sc (+6 Points)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

With the rousing success of the first Enduro Series race I figured we should get started on planning the second round.

Races will begin on Tuesday 7/27/09.

Please take a moment and review the questions below to help narrow things down.

1 - Qualifying -- yes or no?
2 - PI adjusting for place finishing as before?
3 - Teams?
4 - What car? -- all of us in the same this time
5 - What tracks do you guys want to run?
6 - Still 25 laps?
7 - Race every other week or do we want to do some back to backs to be done by 10/27/09 when Forza 3 comes out?

Please provide answers to the above as well as any further comments/notes to add.

Thanks!

Greg



Decisions Made so far ...

Car Choice
We will all drive the same car -- tune and build as you like

We will be driving a RWD car

We will be driving at A850 MAX - All cars start at A850 - Place 1-3 and PI goes down, place 6-8 PI goes UP but no higher than A850


Qualifying -- YES WE WILL BE QUALIFYING

Can be done at anytime up until Sunday before the race. You can have a witness or submit a pic of your (4 LAP HOT LAP ONLY).

Penalty for NOT QUALIFYING is - Start at the back


Car Choice: Mazda Mazdaspeed Roadster 2001 Japan $10,000 D 296

Round 1 Winner - Mazda Mazdaspeed Roadster 2001 Japan $10,000 D 296
Round 2 Winner - Lexus IS300 2003 USA $10,500 D 328
Round 3 Winner - Infiniti G35 Coupe 2003 USA $20,000 C Class
Round 4 Winner - Nissan Skyline Coupe 350GT 2003 Japan $26,500 C Class
Round 5 Winner - Lexus IS350 2006 USA $22,000 C 482
Round 6 Winner - Nissan Fairlady Z Version S Twin Turbo 1994 Japan $35,000 C524


****************************************************************************

Tentative Rules and Regs below (updated constantly)


**THIS IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH WED FORZA NIGHTS!! THAT IS A SEPARATE THING AND IS NOT CHANGING .... THIS IS FOR RACERS LOOKING FOR MORE OF A CHALLENGE**


The Races will be every other Tuesday (this MAY change) starting on 7/27/09 at 9PM EST. There are 8 spots available and only 8 spots. Points will accumulate over the next 8 races (ie 16 weeks) with the grand winner receiving 2 million Forza 2 Game Credits. Rules and info are posted below (stolen from Forza Forums but revamped)

I want to be clear that this is an ongoing series. If you CANNOT make it one week that's fine BUT you will be behind points wise. Also please serious racers only. This is not Cat & Mouse or wreck everyone race night. Newcomers are welcome but I will have to ask that your Forza True Skill Rank be at least a 10. Races will consist of 1 track each week somewhere around 25 laps or so (roughly a 40 - 50 min race time) depending on track length.

WE WILL BE USING FULL RACE OPTIONS -- TIRE WEAR, FUEL USAGE, & COLLISIONS -- NO DAMAGE AT THIS POINT


RULES & RESTRICTIONS

1. You must drive the same car each race week. You can upgrade/downgrade/tune/tweak as much as you want in between race weeks but it has to be the same car.

2. If you cannot make it one week you can HIRE a fill in driver but only 1/2 the points they win transfer to you.

3. There will be a reward weight system in place to keep the racing even throughout the season. Being that there isn't any ballast in the game we'll adjust the PI of the cars relative to the finishing position in points from the race before.

4. Cars should be RACE PAINTED (not themed) and should show your #. If you do not have a # from prior race nights just post here what # you want and it's yours (if not already taken)

SCHEDULE

Round 1 at Laguna Seca (8/4/09)
Round 2 at Sebring (8/11/09)
Round 3 at Tskuba (8/18/09)? ***THIS WILL BE A 50 LAP SPECIAL RACE***

**PLEASE NOTE ONLY 1 WEEK BETWEEN RACES HERE**
Round 4 at Road Atlanta (8/25/09)
Round 5 at Maple Valley (9/1/09)

Round 6 at Road America (9/15/09)
Round 7 at Mugello (9/22/09)
Round 8 at Suzuka (9/29/09)

Round 9 at Nurburgring (10/13/2009) ***GRAND FINALE 8 LAPS***

**Race Night can change from Tuesday to Thursday to try and make sure we have all participants. Remember you can "hire" a substitute driver for a week if you cannot make it**


QUALIFYING:

TBD


CAR RULES

NO RESTRICTIONS on the cars themselves. You can do anything you want.

Car will begin at a level of A850 (allows for improvements and reductions based on the weighted chart). Note that a car can only go up to PI Level of A850 or down to a level of A820.

1st Place: -10 P.I.
2nd Place: -5 P.I.
3rd Place: +/- 0 P.I.
4th Place: +5 P.I.
5th Place: +10 P.I.
6th Place:
7th Place:
8th Place:


RACE POINTS

1st - 15 points
2nd - 12 points
3rd - 10 points
4th - 8 points
5th - 6 points
6th - 4 points
7th - 3 points
8th - 2 points



INDIVIDUAL RACE WINNINGS

1st Place - 100k Forza Credits
2nd Place - 50k Forza Credits
3rd Place - 25k Forza Credits


SEASON WINNINGS

1st Place - 1 Million Forza Credits
2nd Place - 500k Forza Credits
3rd Place - 250k Forza Credits

Of course you get all your winnings from each weeks race as well (given out by the game).

 

[Queasy]

8 - Waldo drives with his left thumb broken?

 

[GCS]

Originally posted by: Queasy
8 - Waldo drives with his left thumb broken?

BWHAHAHAHAHAA

 

[Abel007]

1 - Qualifying -- yes or no? Yes, especially since we'll all be in the same car. Will make Quali that more important. I don't think these times should be kept secret though and after quali, adjustments should be made. This will make races even better. No more "locking in builds"
2 - PI adjusting for place finishing as before? Yes, it worked just fine. The only problem I see with this is #3. If we do teams then does the whole team get adjusted? If not then we'll all be running different cars for the most part.
3 - Teams? See #2.
4 - What car? -- all of us in the same this time Mazda Miata or Ford Mustang. I'd like to do B class but A class works as well. Full downforce should be a requirement. (front/rear wing)
5 - What tracks do you guys want to run? No matter.
6 - Still 25 laps? Yes.
7 - Race every other week or do we want to do some back to backs to be done by 10/27/09 when Forza 3 comes out? Back to Backs are fine. Need to get this in before Forza 3 or we'll never be able to finish it.
8 - Waldo drives with his left thumb broken? No, I am too much of a wuss to break my thumb.

I also think a penalty should be applied to those who do not qualify by Sunday night. We can qualify anytime within the week but after Sunday night it should be closed and times posted that night if possible. That way we have one night to adjust our cars.

 

[imported_hopeless]

As much as I'd like to get in on the ground floor this time, I know I'd end up missing a few of the races. Working on getting a house before the this year is over. Yeah tax credit, boo headaches that are coming.

For what it's worth here are a few ideas I had:

Qualifying -- Even though it can be bothersome, I'd say yes and still make the build / tune locked after you do so. I think some of our better tuners could build a car to get a low time, but it would not be a very good set up to actually race with.

PI adjustment -- Yes, but maybe a bit different. Whatever the starting class is everyone would start at the max PI for that letter (B700, A850, etc), and that would be the max PI for everyone for the whole series. Than have -PI for finishing high in the order and only those that have dropped below the max, would have +PI for finishing lower to bring them back up closer to or to the max.

What car -- My vote would be for everyone to be in the same car.

 

[ivan2]

1 - Qualifying -- yes or no?
is this more like comparing time so one can improve upon or determine who gets to race on race night in case we get more than 8?

if it's just to determine starting position then no, for other reasons such as the one above, yes.

2 - PI adjusting for place finishing as before?
yes but not too dramatic.

3 - Teams?
we can have both, and IMO i feel it makes bit more sense to race individually if we are going for single car, but if we have some variation and people share build then it makes them a team.

4 - What car? -- all of us in the same this time
The 959, just kidding. Should be an FR. The RX-7s we've raced seems fun. Anyone want to give the AE86 a try?

5 - What tracks do you guys want to run?
Anything but the ring (i will take king cobra).

6 - Still 25 laps?
ok, 15 laps for king cobra.

7 - Race every other week or do we want to do some back to backs to be done by 10/27/09 when Forza 3 comes out?
no comment.

Please provide answers to the above as well as any further comments/notes to add.

 

[QuikWgn]

1 - Qualifying -- If both teammates are racing each week yes. If we alternate both qualify positions are averaged and tie breaker is by season points.
2 - PI adjusting for place finishing as before? We could predetermine the downgrades like dropping a certain power adder or having to drop down 3 tire brands if we are going to spec the build and just have the tune vary.
3 - Teams? I'd say yes, but are we doing like our wednesday team nights where the blue team gets "x" points? Who ever gets me is going to be handicapped.
4 - What car? -- I'd say something like the Legacy GT @ B700. Something family sedan/touring car-ish.
5 - What tracks do you guys want to run? Similar to the first series.
6 - Still 25 laps? If we go any lower @ a couple tracks we'd have to make a mandatory pitstop even though we could go all the way.
7 - Race every other week or do we want to do some back to backs to be done by 10/27/09 when Forza 3 comes out? Depends on nights and times. If Tuesdays again i could swing it.

 

[Kabob]

If there's no penalities for missing qualifying/various races and I could just jump in when possible I'd consider joining, I hate the idea of having points/PI docked for not being able to do it. I really do enjoy long enduro races, there were just WAY too many politics coming into the series last time around...

I'm not a fan of the spec car idea, but then again since I won't be racing every week I probably don't have much pull.

I say get rid of the PI penalties entirely, run R4's or something simple. Then you're only worried about setting the car up for said track with a tune, not necessarily worried about the build. The races will be a little shorter.

Also, a thought, you might want to shorten the length of the series. If you don't, Forza 3 is going to be released in the middle of your season.

 

[Queasy]

We never did PI/point penalties for missing qualifying. The only penalty was starting in the back of the pack.

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: Queasy
We never did PI/point penalties for missing qualifying. The only penalty was starting in the back of the pack.

The reason both Arby and I quit was because everyone decided there would be a PI penalty for missing qualifying, go back and check the old thread. Whether or not it was ever followed up I don't know, but that's why I threw in the towel.

*edit* Between pages 22-23 on the old thread is where Hopeless, Arby, and myself all bowed out because of it.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: kabob983

Originally posted by: Queasy
We never did PI/point penalties for missing qualifying. The only penalty was starting in the back of the pack.

The reason both Arby and I quit was because everyone decided there would be a PI penalty for missing qualifying, go back and check the old thread. Whether or not it was ever followed up I don't know, but that's why I threw in the towel.

I remember it being discussed but it was never implemented.

 

[GCS]

Originally posted by: kabob983

Originally posted by: Queasy
We never did PI/point penalties for missing qualifying. The only penalty was starting in the back of the pack.

The reason both Arby and I quit was because everyone decided there would be a PI penalty for missing qualifying, go back and check the old thread. Whether or not it was ever followed up I don't know, but that's why I threw in the towel.

It was discussed but because of all the complaints it was never implemented. I am pretty sure that was listed in the thread. All of us missed at least 1 qualifying this time around.

Arby's reasons for quitting were more "severe" than just that.


In reference to the Qualifying -- I REALLY do not understand the gripe about it. It is 10 mins out of 1 evening for you to do it. EVERYONE has the chance to qualify on ANY NIGHT, you DO NOT have to do it on Sunday Night --- LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO IT ON SUNDAY NIGHT. You cannot tell me that everyone that races is not on their XBOX for at least 10 mins within a given week. I may be the exception to that because my XBOX comes on for Forza night and then is off until the next one.

I realize that I may come off as an asshat here (and I am not sure I care any more) but if you cannot spare the 10 mins to do this then why the hell bother racing at all?

Look I want everyone to race, I want everyone to have fun and I would sure like to get a full room back for the series so therefore whatever the group decides (everyone) is fine with me. I am not trying to run or scare people off but if we don't so it this way then I guess the only alternative would be to treat it like a Wed night race where anyone can race that wants to and we can take turns picking the car. It would still be 1 Tuesday night race but it there would be no points system, no series, no changes etc.

I will say this ... for Qualifying we can also accept a screenshot of your "hot lap". Please adhere to the 4 lap procedure and simply shoot me a photo of the results screen. Queasy and Waldo have both done this and it worked just fine.


Other topics:


I think the car has to be the same for everyone but NO spec build. Build it any way you want with the exception of all Forza Aero IMHO.

PI bumps & hits have to stay ... it made the series VERY FAIR. By the end of the series we were all running much much closer races and it made it a lot more fun.


I will start posting items soon for us to vote on -- 1 item at a time and each person should vote.

 

[GCS]

First Vote topic is up

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: GCS
I realize that I may come off as an asshat here (and I am not sure I care any more) but if you cannot spare the 10 mins to do this then why the hell bother racing at all?

Good point, guess I'll sit this one out too.

 

[GCS]

Kind of a defeatist attitude.

But hey do what you want.

 

[Kabob]

Not defeatist, but you reminded me why I left. When racing isn't fun what's the point?

 

[GCS]

I understand but my issue is that none of you guys gave it a shot. You and Arby both were there for 1 race and then left.

This series was a lot of fun and IMHO more fun than Wed Night races.

Was it more serious? Yes.

Was it super time consuming ... actually no. The first few races yes as I was still getting accustomed to the car, the adjustments, strategy etc. However the last half of the series it was a lot of fun and the races were very tight and challenging.

This time around should be even LESS time consuming and more fun since we are going to all be in the same car AND we are talking about having teammates or perhaps all working collectively.

The teammate aspect is more from a standpoint to have someone to bounce ideas/tunes off of or practice with. I don't think we are going to base the racing/points based on teams. I believe that will still be done on an individual performance basis.

I honestly believe that if you guys had stuck it out past the first race you would have had a good time with it and not only that realized that no one was "out to get you" with the rules/points/penalties. The PI adjustments did nothing but make for great racing not "penalize" people. It is the same idea that has been implemented on Wed nights with great success and no one was complaining about it there (well until I whined last week )

I encourage you and ANYONE ELSE to continue to provide input to the series as well as race with us. If you miss a race so be it but don't knock it til you try it.

 

[imported_hopeless]

I liked the endro races.

The first round being the first had a few hiccups as the group tried to come up with rules on the fly. This second round should/could work out better by going off of the first one.

With working on getting a house, there is no way I can sign up for a whole series at this time. I can post up some thoughts but as I would be very hit or miss you can take them or leave them.

 

[GCS]

Originally posted by: hopeless
I liked the endro races.

The first round being the first had a few hiccups as the group tried to come up with rules on the fly. This second round should/could work out better by going off of the first one.

With working on getting a house, there is no way I can sign up for a whole series at this time. I can post up some thoughts but as I would be very hit or miss you can take them or leave them.

Your thoughts and participation are welcomed no matter what.

Same goes for Ty or Arby or anyone else except those guys who tried to join us 2 weeks ago and all they did was wreck people.

 

[Kabob]

I was there for two races, RA and Laguna.

My issue stems from my my ability to play at random times. Other than Wednesday nights I literally do not know if/when I can get on the 360. Some weeks I can get on whenever, others my wife (who's not a fan of VG's) has plans or wants to do something else, etc. So when I missed a qualifying round it wasn't because I was postponing it because I want an edge, I just couldn't get on to qualify.

I don't want to sound like a jerk either, really I think it's a good idea, I just don't think I'll be able to commit to the competition. My wife "lets me have" Wednesday nights, asking her for another night isn't likely to happen!

 

[ivan2]

TBH i am kinda pissed that i missed the chance to wreck. damn you keyboard!!

 

[Abel007]

From day one, Enduro1 was an open discussion on what to make the series. That included rules, cars, laps, qualifying, etc. I am sorry some people felt they were getting picked on or slighted in anyway by a certain topic or topics within the Enduro1 Thread. We were all trying to make it as even as possible for those competing. A specific topic that seems to have fired up several was the Qualifying Penalty. It was a topic that I brought up and wanted to get people's opinion on. Several joined my side and several opposed it. Both had good reasons for their stance, but we ultimately decided that it was not needed. Before we could reach that verdict however, the opposing force decided to quit in protest. Now, we have Enduro2 and the same silly thing has threatened the starting grids once again. I believe I have a solution so we all can be happy. At least about this subject.

I feel that those of us who qualify are at a huge disadvantage compared to those who do not. I stick by this even for Enduro2. The only way to work it out is to leave the cars open after qualifying so we all have the same playing ground, except those of us who qualified get to start in front of the ones who do not.

I'll be back for more fun and discussions after lunch.

Oh, and calm down guys, we're all friends here with the exception of OSJ and myself. I mean, he is a Clemson fan. WTF

 

[Kabob]

Originally posted by: Abel007
I feel that those of us who qualify are at a huge disadvantage compared to those who do not. I stick by this even for Enduro2. The only way to work it out is to leave the cars open after qualifying so we all have the same playing ground, except those of us who qualified get to start in front of the ones who do not.

That is a complete lie...you're the only one of us who's good enough at tuning to make any changes that make a difference!

 

[Abel007]

Originally posted by: kabob983

Originally posted by: Abel007
I feel that those of us who qualify are at a huge disadvantage compared to those who do not. I stick by this even for Enduro2. The only way to work it out is to leave the cars open after qualifying so we all have the same playing ground, except those of us who qualified get to start in front of the ones who do not.

That is a complete lie...you're the only one of us who's good enough at tuning to make any changes that make a difference!

Drive it like a Lotus? <boggle>

 

[QuikWgn]

the only bad thing about team tuning is say what works well with assists off on a wheel does not necessarily equate to a good tune for an 'assists on' controller driver. I can manage no STM but last week proved that I'm no good w/TCS off, Except the fluke where i almost won Suzuka.