Former Postal teammate says he saw Lance Armstrong inject

[Miramonti]

If this is true - and it certainly seems consistent with Hincapie's refusal to deny Hamilton's allegations - I find it very hard to understand how anyone could continue to deny that Lance doped.

Yep. Hincapie's credibility is going to be hard to attack, the approach Armstrong has taken with the others.

Armstrong could always say Hincapie "mis-remembered"...that worked really well for Roger Clemens.

 

[PokerGuy]

Absolutely no doubt in my mind Lance was on the juice. There's just too much evidence of it to just be washed away with some explanation or another. Then again, since pretty much everyone in the sport was cheating at the time (don't know if it's different now, I doubt it), I don't see why it really matters.

 

[disappoint]

He should have doped like Michael Phelps....literally.

 

[Ghiedo27]

So somehow Armstrong doped up with all of the usual cycling drugs but was only "caught" with cortisone which is just fine if you have a prescription. Sure, he might have doped. He could have somehow, before ever having won a tour and just getting a last minute team with US postal, had the finances and influence to get designer drugs during the height of drug testing (the year Ulrich, Pantani, and I think Virenque were banned- despite all being far more successful at that point). While living in France he could have paid off all of the right people. Had fixed samples and secret doctors and all of that.

But if you're willing to believe all of that was going on by the word of a handful of people that have every right to be bitter, then you're pretty much set at the beginning to find anyone who is accused guilty. But it is all based on conspiracy theories that require everyone from the top to the bottom to be complicit for 7 years.

But hey, he's an athlete and it fits the stereotype so let's just assume the worst.

 

[MiniDoom]

But if you're willing to believe all of that was going on by the word of a handful of people that have every right to be bitter, then you're pretty much set at the beginning to find anyone who is accused guilty. But it is all based on conspiracy theories that require everyone from the top to the bottom to be complicit for 7 years.

But hey, he's an athlete and it fits the stereotype so let's just assume the worst.

You're saying George Hincapie's lying? He has no reason to be bitter/turn on Lance...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

So somehow Armstrong doped up with all of the usual cycling drugs but was only "caught" with cortisone which is just fine if you have a prescription. Sure, he might have doped. He could have somehow, before ever having won a tour and just getting a last minute team with US postal, had the finances and influence to get designer drugs during the height of drug testing (the year Ulrich, Pantani, and I think Virenque were banned- despite all being far more successful at that point). While living in France he could have paid off all of the right people. Had fixed samples and secret doctors and all of that.

But if you're willing to believe all of that was going on by the word of a handful of people that have every right to be bitter, then you're pretty much set at the beginning to find anyone who is accused guilty. But it is all based on conspiracy theories that require everyone from the top to the bottom to be complicit for 7 years.

But hey, he's an athlete and it fits the stereotype so let's just assume the worst.

This is an awfully naive analysis in my opinion. Hincapie, of all people, has no basis to be bitter against Lance (I'd argue that Tyler doesn't either) - to the contrary, he is likely the person who'd be most harmed by confirmation of USPS's doping, other than Lance himself. Meanwhile, virtually every rider who shared the TdF podium with Lance has been found to be a doper. It seems essentially inconceivable that he could have been dominant in that environment without doping himself.

The fact that Lance supposedly never tested positive (actually Tyler claims he did, in the 2001 Tour de Suisse - this was the big revelation on 60 Minutes) doesn't mean he never doped - Tyler himself only tested positive once, and Marion Jones NEVER tested positive but ended up going to prison for perjury for lying about her doping. Moreover, Emma O'Reilly (who, again, seems to have no reason to defame Lance) claims the cortisone prescription he produced to get that positive test excused was forged AFTER he tested positive.

 

[highland145]

This is an awfully naive analysis in my opinion. Hincapie, of all people, has no basis to be bitter against Lance (I'd argue that Tyler doesn't either) - to the contrary, he is likely the person who'd be most harmed by confirmation of USPS's doping, other than Lance himself. Meanwhile, virtually every rider who shared the TdF podium with Lance has been found to be a doper. It seems essentially inconceivable that he could have been dominant in that environment without doping himself.

This. Occam's razor(the inaccurate definition).

 

[freegeeks]

This is an awfully naive analysis in my opinion. Hincapie, of all people, has no basis to be bitter against Lance (I'd argue that Tyler doesn't either) - to the contrary, he is likely the person who'd be most harmed by confirmation of USPS's doping, other than Lance himself. Meanwhile, virtually every rider who shared the TdF podium with Lance has been found to be a doper. It seems essentially inconceivable that he could have been dominant in that environment without doping himself.

The fact that Lance supposedly never tested positive (actually Tyler claims he did, in the 2001 Tour de Suisse - this was the big revelation on 60 Minutes) doesn't mean he never doped - Tyler himself only tested positive once, and Marion Jones NEVER tested positive but ended up going to prison for perjury for lying about her doping. Moreover, Emma O'Reilly (who, again, seems to have no reason to defame Lance) claims the cortisone prescription he produced to get that positive test excused was forged AFTER he tested positive.

some people believe Lance is a saint. I've been following professional cycling from when I was born. Cycling is the most popular sport here (Belgium). There is nobody that I know, and who follows pro cycling who believes that Lance was clean. Just have a look at the Tdf top 10 from the Lance era and who was caught. He still a great champion nonetheless

Alex Zülle
Jan Ullrich
Christophe Moreau
Roberto Heras
Richard Virenque
Mancebo - Op. Puerto case - suspended
Oscar Sevilla
Rumsas
Vinokourov
Hamilton
Iban Mayo
Ivan Basso
Rasmussen
Floyd Landis

The list is endless....

 

[juiio]

So somehow Armstrong doped up with all of the usual cycling drugs but was only "caught" with cortisone which is just fine if you have a prescription. Sure, he might have doped. He could have somehow, before ever having won a tour and just getting a last minute team with US postal, had the finances and influence to get designer drugs during the height of drug testing (the year Ulrich, Pantani, and I think Virenque were banned- despite all being far more successful at that point). While living in France he could have paid off all of the right people. Had fixed samples and secret doctors and all of that.

In case you haven't noticed, hardly any cyclists have failed drug tests, including lots of the ones that are coming out now and saying that they doped. George Hincapie never failed a drug test, but admits that he doped. If Hincapie could dope and pass all the drug tests, then clearly Armstrong could have done the same.

 

[Ghiedo27]

Link? I'm reading Hincapie refuted 60 minutes' claim that he made such a testimony. Regarding Hamilton, He rode hard for Armstrong for 3 years and then fell by the wayside on other teams. He had severe injuries time and again and was caught doping. The guy has every reason to be bitter about his carrier and who else to blame but the guy he sacrificed the most for? And then there's the book. Can you think of a better hook than a tell all regarding the most recognized name in the sport?

And Occam's razor: what's the simplest explanation for Lance passing hundreds of tests while other huge names with giant budgets were caught by them (and had incriminating evidence to back up those tests)? You can say that the tests suck and are spotty, but they've caught many big fish but Lance gets lucky for almost 10 years? Really?

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that he just has to be innocent. But certain facts need to be explained for him to be proven guilty. You can call it naivety, but I do think that presumption of innocence is important. I'd argue that it's naive to take a losing competitors trash talk at face value with a book on the way.

 

[highland145]

And Occam's razor: what's the simplest explanation for Lance passing hundreds of tests while other huge names with giant budgets were caught by them (and had incriminating evidence to back up those tests)? You can say that the tests suck and are spotty, but they've caught many big fish but Lance gets lucky for almost 10 years? Really?

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that he just has to be innocent. But certain facts need to be explained for him to be proven guilty. You can call it naivety, but I do think that presumption of innocence is important. I'd argue that it's naive to take a losing competitors trash talk at face value with a book on the way.

500 tests and no failures is a +1 in the Lance column.
Everyone is doping except Lance and he's still an a** kicker? Not likely.

But it would be sweet if true and expected if he's guilty.

Agree about Tyler's book.

FWIW, I was taking the innocent Lance side at dinner last night.

 

[WelshBloke]

In case you haven't noticed, hardly any cyclists have failed drug tests, including lots of the ones that are coming out now and saying that they doped. George Hincapie never failed a drug test, but admits that he doped. If Hincapie could dope and pass all the drug tests, then clearly Armstrong could have done the same.

IIRC the authorities were pretty keen on not catching anyone for quite a while.

 

[AlienCraft]

Since the pharmaceutical companies always quietly disappear into the shadows when athletes are outed, maybe the media should focus their attention on the source instead of the users.

Designer drugs are usually associated with recreational use, but who's to say that big pharma isn't cooking up special recipes for clients that have plenty of cash and a certain need?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designer_drugs

THANK YOU! Can I get an AMEN?:thumbsup: I have been saying this for years, and while I'll admit LA was a phenom as a kid, to stay as far ahead as he did for so long strains credulity, ESPECIALLY when viewed in context with others who have been outed.

 

[Ghiedo27]

The people that supply the dope are definitely worth looking into. I'm curious about 2 things on the designer drug issue, though.

1)How would Armstrong have funded such a (presumably) expensive habit without having won more than a stage or 2 prior to his comeback.

2)Why weren't the other huge names buying the sneaky stuff too?

 

[disappoint]

The drugs they used EPO and testosterone, have legitimate uses for people who actually need them. Those meds are not custom made for cyclists.

 

[disappoint]

500 tests and no failures is a +1 in the Lance column.
Everyone is doping except Lance and he's still an a** kicker? Not likely.

But it would be sweet if true and expected if he's guilty.

Agree about Tyler's book.

FWIW, I was taking the innocent Lance side at dinner last night.

Sure he used the stuff, but if it can't be proven then he'll be the OJ of the cycling world.

 

[a123456]

LOL, you don't really follow cycling don't you. Every singe top pro cyclist Lance competed against has been caught, the list is endless. People should get over it, Lance was also on the juice, only the blind followers like you still believe him. This doesn't make him a lesser champion but only fools believe he could win clean against equally natural genetic freaks like Ullrich who were also on EPO. Seriously, anyways who believes Lance was clean is simple not following pro cycling for the last 20 years and is in serious denial. Even the all time greats like Merckx were taking stuff, doesn't make him a lesser champion because everyone was doing it and he still destroyed them, just like Lance

This is pretty much how I feel. He might/probably used, but everyone else used and he still won 7 times. The sport is just like that. It's a quasi level playing field with everyone and anyone doping. But tossing endless accusastions at Armstrong sells more books than going after older guys like Merckx.

Independent of whether he doped or not, Hamilton clearly did the whole show to make money. Otherwise, he would have talked much earlier, not just before his book release.

Link? I'm reading Hincapie refuted 60 minutes' claim that he made such a testimony.

And this. Hincapie didn't actually say anything on the record. An "anonymous source" said Hincapie said something and then Hincapie said he didn't say that. So it's just Hamilton (and Landis, etc.) for now.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Link? I'm reading Hincapie refuted 60 minutes' claim that he made such a testimony.

This is inaccurate. He denied talking to 60 Minutes but did not deny the substance of the report (i.e., that he had testified to the grand jury about seeing Lance dope).

With respect to the idea of Lance having some kind of secret recipe, I see no reason to believe that would have been necessary. The overwhelming majority of doping in the pro peloton during the heart of the doping era went undetected. Tyler himself admits doping consistently for years but was only caught once, years after his ride with USPS ended. Dr. Michele Ferrari, Lance's personal coach, was probably the most talented mind in the world when it came to doping professional cyclists without getting caught.

 

[Duder1no]

must-see, entertaining and eye-opening documentary about the rampant, widespread use of steroids:

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Why does everyone refer to bigger, stronger, faster like it's some groundbreaking film? It's some semi fat kid whose brothers are steroid junkies with a few interviews with some quack doctors. I took nothing from the film except steroids make you stronger. I already figured that much.

 

[shortylickens]

Kirby Puckett.
Micheal Jordan.
Roger Clemens.
Lance Armstrong.

Why are my heroes all assholes?

 

[slayer202]

who gives a fuck, really....

 

[Miramonti]

Kirby Puckett.
Micheal Jordan.
Roger Clemens.
Lance Armstrong.

Why are my heroes all assholes?

Because what makes them elite admirable competitors doesn't equate to elite admirable character.

In fact, perhaps the opposite. I think it takes a certain psychosis in people that's required to perform at a 'greatest of alltime' level throughout a long careers, which can undermine the characteristics that we value most in people outside of sporting events.

 

[TheNinja]

Because what makes them elite admirable competitors doesn't equate to elite admirable character.

In fact, perhaps the opposite. I think it takes a certain psychosis in people that's required to perform at a 'greatest of alltime' level throughout a long careers, which can undermine the characteristics that we value most in people outside of sporting events.

I would agree. I think the very characteristics that drive them to be the best no matter what it takes, no matter who they have to step on, and no matter what it costs them.....is what makes them great in the first place. Take that drive/a$$holishness away and you'll have a bunch of Derek Fishers