Former head of Israel's El Al gives advice America will never follow

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
With our continued presence in the Middle East, I cannot imagine the terror networks reducing their attacks on such a bountiful target (us!). However, I cannot imagine the government following this guy's advice. They are far more invaluable than technology but too inconvenient for efficiency-loving Americans.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/11/yeffet.air.security.israel/index.html

How the Israelis do airport security
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
U.S. authorities have stepped up airport screening after failed Christmas Day attack
Consultant Isaac Yeffet says Israel safeguards planes by interviewing all passengers
He says well-trained agents can detect attackers and prevent incidents
Yeffet: Security people need to be constantly tested -- and fired if they fail
New York (CNN) -- In the wake of the failed Christmas Day bombing of Northwest Flight 253, authorities are ramping up air passenger screening, particularly for those flying from 14 nations that the U.S. describes as "state sponsors of terrorism or other countries of interest."

Hundreds more full body scanning machines are on order for U.S. airports. But some airline security experts say the real answer to greater security is to follow the approach used by Israel's airline, El Al.

Isaac Yeffet, the former head of security for El Al and now an aviation security consultant in New York, said El Al has prevented terrorism in the air by making sure every passenger is interviewed by a well-trained agent before check-in.

"Stop relying only on technology," Yeffet told CNN. "Technology can help the qualified, well-trained human being but cannot replace him."

Yeffet spoke to CNN Friday.

CNN: What do you think we've learned about airport security from the failed bombing in Detroit?

Isaac Yeffet: We learned one thing. We do not have a good security system to be able to prevent tragedies in this country.

After Lockerbie, everyone thought, now we've learned the lesson of how to be proactive instead of being reactive. Unfortunately, September 11 came and we know the result. Thousands of people lost their lives. Security totally failed, not at one airport, at three different airports around the country.

In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

What did we learn from this? Just to tell the passenger from now on, you take off your shoes when you come to the airport? This I call a patch on top of a patch.

Now we face the story with [Umar Farouk] AbdulMutallab. We had all the information that we could dream the security people could get. He was on the list of people connected to al Qaeda. I don't need more to understand that when he comes, I am not looking for more evidence. He is suspicious; I have to take care of him.

His father called the U.S. Embassy a month before he took the flight and told the U.S. Embassy that his son had called and said this was the last time you were going to hear from me. And the father warned the U.S. Embassy that his son was going to do something bad, watch him. What happened to this information?

The guy bought a ticket and paid $3,000 cash. ... No one knew the information that we had about him, no one could interview him and to ask him why is he flying to America.

CNN: What needs to be done to improve the system?

Yeffet: It's mandatory that every passenger -- I don't care his religion or whatever he is -- every passenger has to be interviewed by security people who are qualified and well-trained, and are being tested all year long. I trained my guys and educated them, that every flight, for them, is the first flight. That every passenger is the first passenger. The fact that you had [safe flights] yesterday and last month means nothing. We are looking for the one who is coming to blow up our aircraft. If you do not look at each passenger, something is wrong with your system.

CNN: What is El Al's approach to airline security? How does it differ from what's being done in this country?

Yeffett: We must look at the qualifications of the candidate for security jobs. He must be educated. He must speak two languages. He must be trained for a long time, in classrooms. He must receive on-the-job training with a supervisor for weeks to make sure that the guy understands how to approach a passenger, how to convince him to cooperate with him, because the passenger is taking the flight and we are on the ground. The passengers have to understand that the security is doing it for their benefit.

We are constantly in touch with the Israeli intelligence to find out if there are any suspicious passengers among hundreds of passengers coming to take the flight -- by getting the list of passengers for each flight and comparing it with the suspicious list that we have. If one of the passengers is on the list, then we are waiting for him, he will not surprise us.

During the year, we did thousands of tests of our security guys around the world. It cost money, but once you save lives, it's worth all the money that the government gave us to have the right security system.

I used to send a male or female that we trusted. We used to give them tickets and send them to an airport to take a flight to Tel Aviv. We concealed whatever we could in their luggage. Everything was fake, and we wanted to find out if the security people would stop this passenger or not.

If there was any failure, the security people immediately were fired, and we called in all the security people to tell people why they failed, what happened step by step. I wanted everyone to learn from any failure. And if they were very successful, I wanted everyone to know why.

CNN: Let's say all the airlines instituted the system that you're talking about. So let's say I go to an airport for a flight to London. What should happen?

Yeffet: When you come to the check-in, normally you wait on line. While you wait on line, I want you to be with your luggage. You have to meet with me, the security guy. We tell you who we are. We ask for your passport, we ask for your ticket. We check your passport. We want to find which countries you visited. We start to ask questions, and based on your answers and the way you behave, we come to a conclusion about whether you are bona fide or not. That's what should happen.

CNN: Every passenger should be interviewed, on all flights?

Yeffet: Yes, 100 percent...

I want to interview you. It won't take too long if you're bona fide. We never had a delay.

Number two, I have heard so many times El Al is a small airline. We in America are big air carriers. Number one, we have over 400 airports around the country, why hasn't anyone from this government asked himself, let's take one airport out of 400 airports and try to implement El Al's system because their system proved they're the best of the best.

For the last 40 years, El Al did not have a single tragedy. And they came to attack us and to blow up our aircraft, but we knew how to stop them on the ground. So let's try to implement the system at one airport in the country and then come to a conclusion...

CNN: What do you think of using full body scanners?

Yeffet: I am against it, this is once again patch on top of patch. Look what happened, Richard Reid, the shoebomber, hid the explosives in his shoes. The result -- all of us have to take off our shoes when we come to the airport. The Nigerian guy hid his explosives in his underwear. The result -- everyone now will be seen naked. Is this the security system that we want?

We have millions of Muslims in this country. I am not Muslim, but I am very familiar with the tradition, I respect the tradition. Women who walk on the street cover their body from head to toe. Can you imagine the reaction of the husband? Excuse me, wait on the side, we want to see your wife's body naked?... This is not an answer.

I appreciate what the president said, but we need to see the results on the ground at the airports. ... I strongly recommend that TSA call experts ... and not let them leave before they come to conclusions about what must be done at each airport to make sure that we are really pro-active. Let us be alert, let us work together, and show no mercy for any failure, no mercy.

If we do this system, believe me we will show the world that we are the best proactive security system and the terrorists will understand that it's not worth it to come to attack us.

CNN: Would it be more expensive to provide the kind of security system you recommend?

Yeffet: For sure El Al spends more money on security than the American air carriers. But the passengers are willing to pay for it if we can prove to them that they are secure when they come to take a flight.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

These things are not smoking guns.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
The former head has a lot of good points!!

I can confirm every word he said is very true!!

There were no delays in flights doing it the way El Al does things!!

The sad thing is Americans do not have the same care or Love for other Americans.

We are not yet a people that has been pushed to the point of needing to survive and thus being very pro-active with security measures.

As an Israeli and a Jew we understand the need to survive as a people.

To often Americans cannot nor do they want to be inconveinienced with security measures.
After all whats the odds of something happenning to me??
There has been how many plane bombings??
How many attempted bombings?
How many hijacked planes?

Americans would rather put on a good show and play the odds as to whether is will happen to them......

It`s a very interesting subject.....

I particularly like what he said about respecting the Muslim tradition...
We have millions of Muslims in this country. I am not Muslim, but I am very familiar with the tradition, I respect the tradition. Women who walk on the street cover their body from head to toe. Can you imagine the reaction of the husband? Excuse me, wait on the side, we want to see your wife's body naked?... This is not an answer.


Shalom!
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
6,301
2,513
136
In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

These things are not smoking guns.

What paying for a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida with cash and having no luggage is normal?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

These things are not smoking guns.

His point is don't wait for the gun to smoke...
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,124
45,148
136
Just the top 3 US airports handle about 30 times the entire population of Israel in a given year.

El Al style security is not practical for the US.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Just the top 3 US airports handle about 30 times the entire population of Israel in a given year.

El Al style security is not practical for the US.

It's used in many of the main hubs in Europe as well. Amsterdam being the one I'm most familiar with.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

These things are not smoking guns.

If it results in someone being suspicious and futher questioning - that is what counts
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Ok point taken, somethings like paying cash for a ticket, having no luggage, and some other items should arouse suspicion.

But any well trained terrorists should find it easy to avoid suspicious behavior and have a good cover story to boot. In the case of our Xmas day bomber, he had a valid visa and the ready made cover story of flying to the USA to attend school.

Granted that his father had already ratted him out and that dot should have been connected, but not many professional terrorists have that handicap.

But I disagree with the ex head of EL-Al, a well trained terrorist should be able to fool even the best trained human agent.

But like Richard Reed before him, the Xmas day bomber was a rank amateur, and thus may have not been able to meet the strain test of a face to face interview. And in both cases, the rank amateur status extended to not being able to ignite the high explosives they carried correctly. And they got a burn but no boom.

Will we be forever lucky? I somehow doubt it if the attack is well planned.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Ok point taken, somethings like paying cash for a ticket, having no luggage, and some other items should arouse suspicion.

But any well trained terrorists should find it easy to avoid suspicious behavior and have a good cover story to boot. In the case of our Xmas day bomber, he had a valid visa and the ready made cover story of flying to the USA to attend school.

Granted that his father had already ratted him out and that dot should have been connected, but not many professional terrorists have that handicap.

But I disagree with the ex head of EL-Al, a well trained terrorist should be able to fool even the best trained human agent.

But like Richard Reed before him, the Xmas day bomber was a rank amateur, and thus may have not been able to meet the strain test of a face to face interview. And in both cases, the rank amateur status extended to not being able to ignite the high explosives they carried correctly. And they got a burn but no boom.

Will we be forever lucky? I somehow doubt it if the attack is well planned.

Comparing the track records of the US/European systems vs the ISraeli system; I will go with the Israeli system.

They have been a target for a lot longer and the level of hatred against them is much higher.

And their sucess rate currently is magnitudes better than the next choice.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Just the top 3 US airports handle about 30 times the entire population of Israel in a given year.

El Al style security is not practical for the US.

That argument hold no water at all!!

If done peoperly and with properly trained people it will work real well!!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,124
45,148
136
That argument hold no water at all!!

If done peoperly and with properly trained people it will work real well!!

Ben Gurion sees about as much traffic as Ft. Lauterdale.

If things like money, time, and space were no object I'd agree with you.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
It would be pretty redonkulous to interview everyone who goes through ATL. You'd have to show up at the airport 3 days in advance to make your flight. :\
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
It would be pretty redonkulous to interview everyone who goes through ATL. You'd have to show up at the airport 3 days in advance to make your flight. :\

You already have to show your ticket and an ID.
An extra 2-3 minutes for questions/response can be accomplished.
IF anyting seems fishy - the person can be pulled aside for futher inspection. They do this now for luggage issues or scanner hits.

Just have extra inspectors beyond the half dozen at a major airport/terminal entrance
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
You already have to show your ticket and an ID.
An extra 2-3 minutes for questions/response can be accomplished.
IF anyting seems fishy - the person can be pulled aside for futher inspection. They do this now for luggage issues or scanner hits.

Just have extra inspectors beyond the half dozen at a major airport/terminal entrance

This is what I worry about. Judging by the apathy and lack of pride American airport employees and administration have, I'm pretty skeptical about doing anything that will delay customers.

A few times on my last trip I would have rather taken my chances with a terrorist than deal with TSA/airport employees. :p

I carried a bag full of souvenirs, including chopsticks, when I came back from S. Korea. They were more dangerous than fingernail clippers or a lighter; I could've stabbed people to death in the eyes and ears. :awe:
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
This is what I worry about. Judging by the apathy and lack of pride American airport employees and administration have, I'm pretty skeptical about doing anything that will delay customers.

A few times on my last trip I would have rather taken my chances with a terrorist than deal with TSA/airport employees. :p

I carried a bag full of souvenirs, including chopsticks, when I came back from S. Korea. They were more dangerous than fingernail clippers or a lighter; I could've stabbed people to death in the eyes and ears. :awe:

Why did you have them as carry-on? You should've just packaged them with your other heavy bags. These people don't know you personally and really don't care what your excuses are for bringing certain objects on-board. Better to be safe than sorry.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,124
45,148
136
You already have to show your ticket and an ID.
An extra 2-3 minutes for questions/response can be accomplished.
IF anyting seems fishy - the person can be pulled aside for futher inspection. They do this now for luggage issues or scanner hits.

Just have extra inspectors beyond the half dozen at a major airport/terminal entrance

An El Al style interview runs several times that (at a minimum) from what I've read, particularly if you're well traveled.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
US airline security is a joke, we know this, though. The only reason no attacks successful since 911 is because the people perpetrating them are just often stupid.

I have heard that Richard Reid tried to get on El Al before he was caught trying to do his bombing. They interviewed him, searched him, didn't like what they saw, and let him on the plane next to an armed guard just to let him know that they knew he was bad news. And yet into the US with all that suspicious stuff who cares, let him blow up a plane.

Now El Al actually has a PC way of profiling. Instead of doing what people here have said "if he looks like a terrorist search him more" they simply interview everyone and in short order Grandma Cookiesheet gets a pass and Abdul shift-eyes gets additional processing. And so they spend more time on people who are obviously a more likely risk, which the US does not do, which it should.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
But I disagree with the ex head of EL-Al, a well trained terrorist should be able to fool even the best trained human agent.
Maybe, but let me assure you: if you are about to blow up a plane you could have run that story through your head a million times. If you have an agent with a badge and his agent friends around you are going to have a very hard time lying about what you're doing without looking shady as hell. This is human nature. You know the gravity of the situation and you know you're lying. It's very hard to pull off convincingly.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
Why did you have them as carry-on? You should've just packaged them with your other heavy bags. These people don't know you personally and really don't care what your excuses are for bringing certain objects on-board. Better to be safe than sorry.

Because I bought them after I checked my bags. The point is that they didn't even notice. Also, I and everyone else on board, has a higher chance of getting killed driving to the airport than being attacked by terrorists on a flight.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Because I bought them after I checked my bags. The point is that they didn't even notice. Also, I and everyone else on board, has a higher chance of getting killed driving to the airport than being attacked by terrorists on a flight.

OK, you bought them after you checked your bags. Giving that these Islamic terrorists want to kill us and will try anything to do it, I think someone can make money sending items from duty-free stores. Seriously, does bin Laden have to be behind you in line before you realize that those sharp objects you just bought can have a dual-use?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Everything we do is half ass, unintelligent or for public consumption. That's USA for ya - symbolism over substance wag the dog and all that.

Shock and awe!
Shoes off!
Debt is good!
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
A lot of other countries do this, don't see why we couldn't.

Cause we are idiots. You think the current crop of former McDonalds workers in TSA could screen for personality and narrow suspects based on simple questions?

You think they could be faster with getting us on plane like El AL?

Reason why is everyone in Israel has military experiance, everyone is a no nonsense serious person and educated. Here we'd need to pay TSA workers 100K a year to attract qualified screeners. It;s just a different culture.