Former Gov. Ted Strickland tried to live on Min. Wage and said he didn't make it

[dphantom]

Fail, the purpose of min wage is to guarantee a living wage.

Fail.

The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees. Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation's working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage

People can interpret that however they want to include a "living wage" whatever that means. But minimum wage jobs are not designed to provide a standard of living that is above the poverty line.

 

[frowertr]

Fail, the purpose of min wage is to guarantee a living wage.

You are incorrect. No one aspires to "reach" minimum wage in order to guarantee their living. Everyone knows (or should) that it is a "starter wage" designed to help those that are beginning their career OR young persons who are working in between their schooling.

How can people (not on minimum wage) really think that it is designed guarantee a living wage?

 

[OutHouse]

Everyone knows (or should) that it is a "starter wage" designed to help those that are beginning their career OR young persons who are working in between their schooling.

i suggest you google the purpose of the min wage.

 

[ivwshane]

Absolutely. So this guy's example of living on min wage is disingenuous. He received min wage. But none of the state aid many of these people qualify for which help them make ends meet. In MN I know people who have been on food stamps. They typically received about 200 dollars per child per month. There is also rental and car benefits along with welfare they can qualify for while working. I don't know how much Ohio provides compared to MN. I suspect less but I am sure they have some programs.

So you advocate that tax paying citizens subsidize the wages of employers employees? Yeah that makes sense!

/s

 

[nehalem256]

So you advocate that tax paying citizens subsidize the wages of employers employees? Yeah that makes sense!

/s

And you think that forcing employers to pay them above market wages amounts to anything else?

In fact if anything liberals should support government assistance over a high minimum wage as rich people pay a disproportionate share of taxes used to finance government assistance whereas the middle class does a disproportionate share of shopping at businesses (ie Walmart and McDonald) which employ minimum wage employees.

So why do you hate the middle class and want them to subsidize lower taxes for the wealthy?

 

[frowertr]

i suggest you google the purpose of the min wage.

I don't need a "Google search" to tell me what I already know. Minimum wage is not designed as a living wage for life! It's sole purpose was to protect employees from exploitation of businesses.

Why can't some of you liberals get this through your skull? It is a temporary wage. That is it. It was never designed to be lived off of for years and years.

Again, one never hears anyone striving to attain minimum wage. Why? Because everyone knows it is not possible to live long term on it. It is a temporary fix until you gain better skills/knowledge to move ahead.

 

[cabri]

I don't need a "Google search" to tell me what I already know. Minimum wage is not designed as a living wage for life! It's sole purpose was to protect employees from exploitation of businesses.

Why can't some of you liberals get this through your skull? It is a temporary wage. That is it. It was never designed to be lived off of for years and years.

Again, one never hears anyone striving to attain minimum wage. Why? Because everyone knows it is not possible to live long term on it. It is a temporary fix until you gain better skills/knowledge to move ahead.

Again, where is it stated that it is to be a living wage?

 

[techie81]

You are missing the point. Minimum wage is never meant to be a self supporting wage. It is a stepping stone for low skill workers to move up. It is a bridge while they obtain real skills. If you choose to not advance and only be worth minimum wage, then you need to get a second job and work 60-80 hours a week if you want to have a "living" wage. Whatever that means.

Thank God someone here has a brain. What do people not get? I worked dozens of crappy jobs for years before I was able to get better jobs using the experience I received from these minimum wage positions. You cannot expect to work at Walmart or McDonalds and get paid $25/hour.

It seems like kids are entitled these days, demanding to make big bucks without working for it.

 

[ivwshane]

And you think that forcing employers to pay them above market wages amounts to anything else?

In fact if anything liberals should support government assistance over a high minimum wage as rich people pay a disproportionate share of taxes used to finance government assistance whereas the middle class does a disproportionate share of shopping at businesses (ie Walmart and McDonald) which employ minimum wage employees.

So why do you hate the middle class and want them to subsidize lower taxes for the wealthy?

Just put me on ignore, your arguements are retarded and quite frankly I don't like talking to crazy people who like fucking toasters.

 

[werepossum]

Was public transit available to him in that area, would it have gotten him to his meeting on time? Lots of questions. I am sure he would have said if this were the case.

Yet strangely, proggies don't seem to consider that when attempting to move us all to public transportation. Hmmm . . .

You have attribution for that claim?

Yeah, but you're not gonna want to touch it. Or stand down wind of it.

How many people work for $15 or less today? A great many more than your argument suggests.

It's wrong to focus the argument on how many make min wage today, as it entirely misses the point.

This will also be increasingly the case as we import and legalize mass numbers of illegals. Why pay someone $20/hour when you can pay two people $10/hour and get more productivity even if they both suck? This is what happened with construction. It used to pay quite well because it's physically hard work and also takes some smarts to do it right; now it only pays well if you have union or government licensing protecting you.

 

[werepossum]

Fail.

The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees. Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation's working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage

People can interpret that however they want to include a "living wage" whatever that means. But minimum wage jobs are not designed to provide a standard of living that is above the poverty line.

Well said. And while I don't think one can expect to be out of poverty, raise a family, or maintain a household without a roommate on minimum wage, at some point work becomes pointless and the individual is better off being supported by the state or turning to crime (which usually results in the same thing.) We have a vested interest in avoiding that, especially given that outsourcing, rampant illegal immigration, and automation/productivity gains all tend to devalue labor. Whether they are home grown or imported, we're going to have an increasing number of people living long term on minimum or near-minimum wage. We're going to have to figure out how to make that at least nominally livable or we're going to have a revolution.

 

[boomerang]

The whole minimum wage issue is a vote grab. Nothing more and nothing less. It's one of many election year issues that the left pulls out of its trick bag when needed. After the election, it will get wrapped up and carefully stored away until next time.

 

[Exophase]

Wednesday morning, I had a meeting about a mile from my apartment, but in the opposite direction of my office.

Doesn't exactly sound like the kind of scenario a minimum wage worker would generally encounter.

 

[ivwshane]

Doesn't exactly sound like the kind of scenario a minimum wage worker would generally encounter.

Do you think that detail helps or hurts the politicians experience or his realization?

 

[Exophase]

Do you think that detail helps or hurts the politicians experience or his realization?

I think it takes away from his exercise, yes. Someone who makes minimum wage simply doesn't have the work expenses that he does, or at least not generally.

He also mentions medical expenses, well he's a 72 year old man. Not exactly the median age for minimum wage workers.

I'm not saying there isn't a strong point that living on minimum wage isn't extremely trying, I just don't think he's a good representative sample for testing that, and I don't think you have to try to live it yourself to be convinced how bad it is.

 

[Matt1970]

So you advocate that tax paying citizens subsidize the wages of employers employees? Yeah that makes sense!

/s

They either pay for it in taxes or they pay for it in higher prices. At least with taxes the burden is shifted towards the upper classes.

 

[ivwshane]

I think it takes away from his exercise, yes. Someone who makes minimum wage simply doesn't have the work expenses that he does, or at least not generally.

He also mentions medical expenses, well he's a 72 year old man. Not exactly the median age for minimum wage workers.

I'm not saying there isn't a strong point that living on minimum wage isn't extremely trying, I just don't think he's a good representative sample for testing that, and I don't think you have to try to live it yourself to be convinced how bad it is.

While the average age isn't 70, it is a lot higher than you think.

http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/


Btw, people don't have a life that is predictable and that especially goes for poor people. The fact that he had to go to a meeting isn't his point, it's that something unexpected happened and he was unprepared for it. Being a politician, he didn't lose his job but when you are poor, being late could very well cost you your job, no matter what the reason was.



*there are some concerns regarding that study of the average age. My point is that there are a lot of older people on minimum wage, it's not just teenagers.

 

[Exophase]

While the average age isn't 70, it is a lot higher than you think.

http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/

I was never under the impression that the average age for minimum wage jobs was teenage (actually I said median but that's not that important), don't know why you thought I was just because I said it wasn't 72.

Btw, people don't have a life that is predictable and that especially goes for poor people. The fact that he had to go to a meeting isn't his point, it's that something unexpected happened and he was unprepared for it. Being a politician, he didn't lose his job but when you are poor, being late could very well cost you your job, no matter what the reason was.

The simple fact is, minimum wage jobs will usually be more predictable than higher paying ones. They're also less likely to require you to buy things for them or dress as nicely.

The other side of this is that people adapt to their circumstances and that means planning around what their life can bear. Trying to go from one lifestyle to a completely different one overnight isn't really going to be very representative of anything.

 

[ivwshane]

I was never under the impression that the average age for minimum wage jobs was teenage (actually I said median but that's not that important), don't know why you thought I was just because I said it wasn't 72.



The simple fact is, minimum wage jobs will usually be more predictable than higher paying ones. They're also less likely to require you to buy things for them or dress as nicely.

The other side of this is that people adapt to their circumstances and that means planning around what their life can bear. Trying to go from one lifestyle to a completely different one overnight isn't really going to be very representative of anything.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Shit happens whether you plan for it or not, having money available allows you deal with unforeseeable issues. If you are poor it's hard to plan for a car break down when you are barely able to pay your bills. Now think of everything else that could happen unexpectedly to you in life, tickets, medical issues, theft, pregnancy, ripped clothes, car problems, etc, etc.

 

[alcoholbob]

Meanwhile, Switzerland does not have a minimum wage and their median income is 38% higher than that of the United States with 3.5 percent unemployment. Their voters rejected a minimum wage as they correctly realized this would mean putting out of business many of the individual suppliers crucial to the logistics chain behind every business which would mean higher unemployment.

 

[Exophase]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Shit happens whether you plan for it or not, having money available allows you deal with unforeseeable issues. If you are poor it's hard to plan for a car break down when you are barely able to pay your bills. Now think of everything else that could happen unexpectedly to you in life, tickets, medical, theft, pregnancy, ripped close, car problems, etc, etc.

Hey, I don't disagree with that at all. All sorts of stuff can be really hard to deal with if you don't have money or people who are willing to help you.

But in this case the meeting Ted Strickland had is really not a sudden unpredictable emergency but more a matter of course for his job. Minimum wage workers would absolutely not have the same expectations. I don't see this as analogous to dealing with emergencies.

A related example: if I had to suddenly spend money like I were on minimum wage I'd say it's awfully difficult to deal with gas money getting to my job. But if I had to work a minimum wage job I'd probably at least be able to manage one that didn't require I drive 35 minutes to get to it (a lot of those wouldn't want someone who lived that far away to begin with, for one thing it's a lot harder for them to suddenly cover shifts)

 

[Oldgamer]

Fail.

The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees. Others have argued that the primary purpose was to aid the lowest paid of the nation's working population, those who lacked sufficient bargaining power to secure for themselves a minimum subsistence wage.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/minimum_wage

People can interpret that however they want to include a "living wage" whatever that means. But minimum wage jobs are not designed to provide a standard of living that is above the poverty line.

The minimum wage was enacted by congress and pushed by F.D.R. to be most definitely a living wage, in fact I quote FDR here where he said:

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.

By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.

All but the hopelessly reactionary will agree that to conserve our primary resources of man power, government must have some control over maximum hours, minimum wages, the evil of child labor and the exploitation of unorganized labor." end quote

Many of you need to re-read history again. That is exactly why the minimum wage was created. It was created to be a livable wage for people.

 

[OverVolt]

You have attribution for that claim?

So when you go to mcdonalds at least in this area, when I was a teenager, it was mostly teenagers working the counter. But today.. noooo completely different. Most of them are my age... 20-30. They are displacing the teenagers, whose unemployment is skyhigh. Adults outnumber teenagers at most minimum wage jobs I am seeing right now. I getoff late from work and go to the 24 hour walmart since its the only place open at that time if I need something and lo and behold you have 20-40 yr/olds stocking the shelves. Like 50 of them. I did that as a teen, and there sure as hell weren't any 20-40 yr/olds at my side since we were all basically a bunch of screwballs at that age.

Nobody except truly the bottom of the barrel people were trying to live off minimum wage 10 years ago but today they seem not too bad in the smarts department. Sometimes I joke "Whats your degree in" when I see someone my age and they seem pretty smart. I've gotten back like "electrical engineer but my gpa was 2.5" or "english..."and shit like that. Oh well! Guess I'm just a technology luddite and don't have a link of proof from Huffpo about an article that the author barely skimmed nor understood to prove it to you. Its not like I see it everyday in action or anything.

 

[Oldgamer]

So when you go to mcdonalds at least in this area, when I was a teenager, it was mostly teenagers working the counter. But today.. noooo completely different. Most of them are my age... 20-30. They are displacing the teenagers, whose unemployment is skyhigh. Adults outnumber teenagers at most minimum wage jobs I am seeing right now. I getoff late from work and go to the 24 hour walmart since its the only place open at that time if I need something and lo and behold you have 20-40 yr/olds stocking the shelves. Like 50 of them. I did that as a teen, and there sure as hell weren't any 20-40 yr/olds at my side since we were all basically a bunch of screwballs at that age.

Nobody except truly the bottom of the barrel people were trying to live off minimum wage 10 years ago but today they seem not too bad in the smarts department. Sometimes I joke "Whats your degree in" when I see someone my age and they seem pretty smart. I've gotten back like "electrical engineer but my gpa was 2.5" or "english..."and shit like that. Oh well! Guess I'm just a technology luddite and don't have a link of proof from Huffpo about an article that the author barely skimmed nor understood to prove it to you. Its not like I see it everyday in action or anything.

I see a lot of elderly folks working at places like McDonalds and Walmart these days, and they aren't just greeters either. They are cashierests. One lady who gives me my coffee on some days I drive through the McD's drive through has to be in her late 60s.

 

[nehalem256]

The minimum wage was enacted by congress and pushed by F.D.R. to be most definitely a living wage, in fact I quote FDR here where he said:

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.

By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.

All but the hopelessly reactionary will agree that to conserve our primary resources of man power, government must have some control over maximum hours, minimum wages, the evil of child labor and the exploitation of unorganized labor." end quote

Many of you need to re-read history again. That is exactly why the minimum wage was created. It was created to be a livable wage for people.

Fun fact:

http://livingwage.mit.edu/places/3904918000

According to the living wage calculator for Columbus Ohio a living wage is only 8.15.

So where exactly is the justification for a 10.10 minimum wage?

Fun fact 2: Typical hourly wage for Food Preparation and Serving Related in Columbus $8.67

So why was the governor trying to live off a lower wage than what the most menial jobs already pay?

:whiste: