Former boyfriend used Craigslist to arrange woman's rape

[waggy]

my opinion not based on any law or facts. just my opinion (seems some tend to take them overboard and argue against them..)

The boyfriend should be charged (and convicted) of rape. the highest sentence possible. while he did not do the activity himself he set it up to have the women tortured.

The guy that did the actual rape should be charged with rape. there were many red flags that should have tipped him off. i have no sympathy for the idiot.


I wouldn't cry if both of them got killed.

 

[sixone]

Craigslist is not responsible for what happens based on an ad someone posts.

If the NYT hosted a "for-sale" ad for someone selling a gun... someone buys that gun... and then goes and murders someone... is the NYT responsible for murder?

The answer is no because
Publishers of "third party content" are immune from prosecution under the Communications Decency Act of 1996.

Clearly CL thinks they have some responsibility, because when I go to look at jobs, I have to click past a scam alert. Click on personals, and you'll see warnings about child exploitation and STDs.

 

[MotF Bane]

Yes. And id toss in some sort of fine to Creigslist for hosting such a plan like this moderated.

Absolutely not.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

kinda feel bad for the guy and girl in this case. The only one that should rot is the ex boyfriend.

 

[krylon]

No

 

[Azurik]

Clearly CL thinks they have some responsibility, because when I go to look at jobs, I have to click past a scam alert. Click on personals, and you'll see warnings about child exploitation and STDs.

Not really Sixone. They are protected by Federal Statutes on this - I need to look up the relevant ones. The features about scam alerts, STDs and child exploitations could be considered warnings Craigslist does out of the good of their heart.

Concerning the rape situation, that is a tough call. If it were a real rape fantasy and gagging was involved and part of that fantasy was to keep on going while the women pretends to say, "No no no, stop!" - that is part of the fantasy. There isn't direct case law on this subject, but my best guess would be the ex-boyfriend would be charged and the person who did the "rape" would get a much lighter punishment if the details of the story is correct. What they need to do is somehow close the loophole on this modern day entrapment.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Both men need to rot. The ex-bf was intentionally criminal in his acts, the rapist was negligently criminal in his. I don't care what communication occurred. If you are going to act out a rape fantasy, you better get the "victim's" name in blood saying that is ok before you act.

 

[actuarial]

There's a lot of other factors to consider. Had the rapist ever seen a picture of her? If not, he was assuming he was 'pretending' to rape the right woman. It could have been some family member over for a visit, or the address could be a typo. Possibly he confirmed her identity if he knocked on the door?

The rapist also never set this up with any personal contact. Now I'm sure there's some people out there who would want the fantasy to be acted out having never seen the person, to make it more real. Even still, this guy took a HUGE risk acting on internet info alone, and he got burned. He definitely deserves jail time, whether it be for assault or rape.

 

[a123456]

Does anyone remember the episode name, number or season for the Law and Order: SVU show?

It was called Liberties (S10 E21), but the case takes a slightly different angle as it ends up focusing more on the judge rather than the 3 people involved in the initial crime.

 

[rudder]

Send rapist and former boyfriend to jail.

This.

Doesn't matter what someone told you. If the lady says no she means no.

When the rapist gets out of jail... maybe next time he will make sure an anonymous craigslist ad is legit.

 

[MotF Bane]

It was called Liberties (S10 E21), but the case takes a slightly different angle as it ends up focusing more on the judge rather than the 3 people involved in the initial crime.

Yeah, they completely dodged the issue.

 

[jlee]

Clearly CL thinks they have some responsibility, because when I go to look at jobs, I have to click past a scam alert. Click on personals, and you'll see warnings about child exploitation and STDs.

I've seen 'buyer beware' things in newspapers before too...just because they post a warning doesn't mean they're responsible.

 

[phoenix79]

Stipe should have the book thrown at him, what he did was horrible. McDowell is not completely clear either, at some point it had to be obvious that everything wasn't kosher. What the article doesn't say is whether he did in fact stop at some point or not. I do think that McDowell will plea to a lesser charge and testify against Stipe and probably do minimal time in jail.

edit: 1000th post!!!!!

 

[SunnyD]

What if the woman did post such a thing to get her ex-boyfriend arrested? Just saying (didn't read the thread to see if this was posed, obviously whatever evidence they have should be possible to prove or disprove who posted the ad).

 

[ElFenix]

You have a very interesting understanding of the US legal system. Where did you get your law degree?

it's actually a big discussion in the US legal system. no means no, but no also means yes. women will say no when they are perfectly willing for various reasons. so a no often becomes just another piece of evidence in the totality of the circumstances. that's why the victim in rape trials is often as on trial as the accused.

 

[Regs]

that is some scary ****.

 

[darkxshade]

Regardless of the circumstances, she was raped, that much is clear. The unclear part is how to divy up the punishment between the 2 guys. The problem here is that laws aren't perfect and right now, sides are divided between those who follow the letter of the law vs those who follow the spirit of the law.

Thus, to follow the letter of the law, some see it as a clear cut case where McDowell should be sentenced for rape as he commited the act and they are completely ignoring and dismissing the circumstances as they are irrelevant. I think this a flaud way of looking at it. Yes there are many things McDowell could have done to avoid this but he's not being judged for his stupidity... for what he could have done, he's being judged for rape. A sentence I think is better pinned on the ex-bf.

Because people make stupid mistakes all the time not thinking about the possible consequences. For many, these mistakes don't cost them anything, for this guy, it could cost him his life. I would'nt call it unfair, I just call it unfortunate. He had an opportunity to catch some red flags and missed it. That's all there is to it. He's not a rapist by the definition of the word from his side of the argument since it wasn't his intent but from the victims side, he is. That's what the courts will have to decide on. I'm not even going to justify what he did, but at the least, I think the ex-bf should get the rape charge but McDowell should still get some form of lesser punishment for his lack of common sense.

 

[Pepsei]

how come the rapist never call and talk to the girl. and go thru voice confirmation before going thru with this.

 

[Gooberlx2]

IMO,

The ex should get convicted of rape to the fullest extent. That much is absolutely clear.

McDowell's fate rests on a lot of factors. How remorseful is he? Is he traumatized? How far did the ex take the ruse? Did he send multiple pictures and carry on these conversations for a long period of time? Did they even discuss details of safe-words in replacement of "no" and "stop". To what extent was the act committed versus the "guidelines" in the IM conversations?

At the minimum I'd say he gets probation and mandatory counseling (for his benefit really) if it was an extensive ruse that could conceivably convince most (dumb) people wanting to explore that lifestyle (i.e. not pros or people who've been doing it a while). It could also range to a lesser rape charge for gross negligence and/or willful disregard for common sense, to even the harshest judgments if he obviously took the fantasy way beyond any reasonable boundaries (no matter how fake) that were discussed.

 

[daniel1113]

it's actually a big discussion in the US legal system. no means no, but no also means yes. women will say no when they are perfectly willing for various reasons. so a no often becomes just another piece of evidence in the totality of the circumstances. that's why the victim in rape trials is often as on trial as the accused.

Exactly, which is why I was asking. It isn't as clear cut as this guy makes it out to be since it completely depends on the jurisdiction.

 

[skace]

I have a couple problems with the topics and posts in this thread.
1. I don't approve of how Craigslist is being beaten about. There is nothing special on Craigslist, anything done on it could have been done on an IRC chat room or a billion other places. The fact that the morality police are using this case to try and tear it apart is despicable.

2. JohnofSheffield can't argue like an adult, talk about letting your emotions get the best of you. He should be glad he has gorobei to come sort things out for him. And even though I agree with a lot of what gorobei says, I don't think John was on the same page. John was ready to shoot anyone who acts out a fantasy. He was a walking example of why zero tolerance is a flawed logic and emotion based decision making leads you towards regrettable situations.

3. It's difficult to judge who should be innocent and guilty in this case without all the facts, so we don't know who gets all the blame, but I think it's important to remember that hind-sight is 20/20 in McDowell's case. Like Goober, I believe a lot needs to be looked at before any guilt is placed.

I do agree that a face to face visit seems logical, however the girl could say that ruins the illusion for her. It's definitely a gray area. The damning thing is that when we try to parallel this with the couch or car scenario, nothing works. I wouldn't break into someone's house for a couch, not worth the risk. I wouldn't break into someone's car because they say they lost the key, not worth the risk. Trying to parallel the case causes me to side against McDowell in that he should have had better judgement.

Maybe they should consult multiple "pros" in this industry as to what kind of measures are usually taken and what kind of expected response is gotten and whether they would have had warning signs. Perhaps that is the best approach to get the insight needed.

I'd also be trying to identify whether these 2 men had any prior contact outside of the craigslist ad.

 

[OutHouse]

I'm too old to be stupid, any word to show her displeasure is ok but no is the safeword, it's the legal word and it's the word that makes me stop.

Sure, you can go ahead and play other sheit if you want and use other words, but NONE of that will have any legal bearing what so ever if she decides to take you to court, a no is a no, if it isn't, then get a fucking written contract to replace the word because otherwise she will get to pick you clean.

I don't do rape fantasies though, it's not my thing, i'd go limp if i tried.

isn't that the point of a rape fantasy this guy thought he was fulfilling? of course she is going to say no and fight and scram and plead. as far as he knew she wanted it as real as possible and resistance was to be expected. rape fantasies do not have safe words, the whole point for the woman is to feel like she was really raped. for what ever reason she needs to feel that her life is in real danger by some stranger.

 

[StageLeft]

Punish both for rape, the boyfriend for trying to get her raped and this other guy for either knowing he was doing it or being so fvcked in the head that with a woman probably crying and pleading he keeps going ahead with it. Lock them both up. Make them both wanting aggressive men in jail.

 

[OutHouse]

This.

Doesn't matter what someone told you. If the lady says no she means no.

When the rapist gets out of jail... maybe next time he will make sure an anonymous craigslist ad is legit.

i would agree with you if he picked the woman up at a club or party and went back to her or his house and thing got hot and heavy then she said no, but that is not the case in this issue.

 

[OutHouse]

Dude..

it's not that hard. Even you coulda found it.

and i'm providing the link where YOU posted it, so the mods, nor you, can't say i'm posting personal info.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=29104758

Captain Jake Agnew, Task Force Black, Special Air Service, RAF since 1988, service number 881019.

Altho i highly doubt that's you. I don't doubt that is probably info for someone currently in SAS...
maybe your dad.. or a brother in law..

but not you.

no member of any special elite force especially an officer would EVER post their name, rank, unit and service number on a fucking public forum. If you truly are SAS and did that I hope you did not put your men or family in danger. If you truly are SAS and showed such a complete lack of judgment i hope that your CO throws you out for being a complete retard.