Forget the x1900.. I want the x1700

[shooterm]

All this info about the x1900 is good, but I want info on the x1700.
I'm a casual gamer and do lots of video encoding. So I want Avivo, I want to play some of the newer RTS and I don't want to break the bank.

So give me details on the card I want! (I realize there are no details yet )

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: shooterm
All this info about the x1900 is good, but I want info on the x1700.
I'm a casual gamer and do lots of video encoding. So I want Avivo, I want to play some of the newer RTS and I don't want to break the bank.

So give me details on the card I want! (I realize there are no details yet )

I think they were going with an 8or12 pipe line card with 3x shaders each.

 

[chilled]

I'd be surprised if it's out anytime soon.

 

[Munky]

I'd also expect it to be a 8 TMU, 24 shader card, clocked about 500-600 mhz, using a 256-bit mem bus. It should perform on par or better than the x850xt in modern games, along with newer features. If it's priced ~$200, it would be a nice card for the money. I'm guessing it would be launched around the same time Nv releases the rest of the 7-series, like the 7900 or the 7600.

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: munky
I'd also expect it to be a 8 TMU, 24 shader card, clocked about 500-600 mhz, using a 256-bit mem bus. It should perform on par or better than the x850xt in modern games, along with newer features. If it's priced ~$200, it would be a nice card for the money. I'm guessing it would be launched around the same time Nv releases the rest of the 7-series, like the 7900 or the 7600.

the 256-bit mem bus is a must the 1600 were a joke at best.

 

[v8envy]

What's with the past tense? The 1600 only became available last month.

And the 1600 has two bottlenecks. One, the memory bandwidth, the other being 4 TUs and 4 ROPs, effectively making this a 4 pipe card. As another poster pointed out in a different thread, at ~30-40 frames/sec rendered at 12x10, you're not even hitting the 12Gb bandwidth limit.

I'd consider an 8 or 12 pipe equivalent of the 1600 very, very hard. If it's still 4 'pipes' midway through 2006, it's not worth looking at.

 

[ElFenix]

256 bit memory bus with slow cheap memory will still be faster than 128 bit bus with expensive memory.

256 bit 350 mhz ram would be faster than 128 bit 700 mhz ram simply due to ddr overhead

of course, then the manufacturers couldn't advertise the speed of the memory

 

[Justin343563611]

Well I hope that it's an at least 12 piped card with 2+ shaders per pipe, with similar clocks to 1600xt.

 

[Sunrise089]

Originally posted by: munky
I'd also expect it to be a 8 TMU, 24 shader card, clocked about 500-600 mhz, using a 256-bit mem bus. It should perform on par or better than the x850xt in modern games, along with newer features. If it's priced ~$200, it would be a nice card for the money. I'm guessing it would be launched around the same time Nv releases the rest of the 7-series, like the 7900 or the 7600.

I card with those specs and at that price would be a huge win for ATI. Basically they would be offering a card that outperforms the 6800GS and out-techs the X800 GTO^2 without having to worry about unlocking. If it were really as fast as an X850XT and was $200 it will sell VERY well indeed.

 

[TomKazansky]

Originally posted by: shooterm
All this info about the x1900 is good, but I want info on the x1700.
I'm a casual gamer and do lots of video encoding. So I want Avivo, I want to play some of the newer RTS and I don't want to break the bank.

So give me details on the card I want! (I realize there are no details yet )

there won't be any x1700s for 06 Q1. MAYBE 06 Q2

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Sunrise089

I card with those specs and at that price would be a huge win for ATI. Basically they would be offering a card that outperforms the 6800GS and out-techs the X800 GTO^2 without having to worry about unlocking. If it were really as fast as an X850XT and was $200 it will sell VERY well indeed.

Depends on when. It'd sell very well today, considering people are paying $200 for an X850XT, and feel good about it.

But the 6800 GS is moving to a $170 pricepoint, and who knows what'll be at the low $200 pricepoint early/late Q2 2006. Maybe the 7800GT or equivalent? Not unreasonable, considering it's $260 right now.

The x1700 will have to solidly and convincingly outperform the 7800GT, never mind 6800 if they're hoping for the $200 retail pricepoint in 3-6 months, IMO.

 

[Munky]

For the most part, the cheapest 7800gt I've seen without any limited-time rebate is ~$280. I doubt it will go down to $200 any time soon, because it's still a high end card, and just like the 6800gt, those cards tend to hold their price for a long time after it initially settles to what the market dictates. The 7900gt may push it down to about $250, but that's as low as I can see it going. At any rate, the 7800gt is not far ahead of the x850xt, so a $200 x1700xt with comparable performance would be a hard deal to beat unless Nv has something better with the midrange 7600gt.

 

[mamisano]

Yeah, I too would love 2x 1700XTs in Crossfire, WITHOUT the external dongle - I am sure that would make a nice setup.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cooler

Originally posted by: munky
I'd also expect it to be a 8 TMU, 24 shader card, clocked about 500-600 mhz, using a 256-bit mem bus. It should perform on par or better than the x850xt in modern games, along with newer features. If it's priced ~$200, it would be a nice card for the money. I'm guessing it would be launched around the same time Nv releases the rest of the 7-series, like the 7900 or the 7600.

the 256-bit mem bus is a must the 1600 were a joke at best.

wasn't there an "improved" x1600xt with 256bit memory?

256-bit Yule polishing

f you're wondering why we keep using the NEW in front of every X1600, there wouldn't be a bit of a difference if there wasn't a small quote hidden inside the press release:

"The new Radeon X1600 XT also features 256-bit ring-bus memory controller and support for up to 512 MB of RAM."

it's already new and improved . . . i expect the x1700xt to be faster still . . . but will it make it to AGP?

 

[coldpower27]

I seriously doubt we will see a 256Bit External connection to memory on the performance/mainstream core aka RV560. 256Bit PCB are just an expensive item reserved for the enthusiast core only.

 

[v8envy]

I think we're actually on the same page.

That's why I said 7800GT equivalent. Just like with the 6800GT, I expect NVidia to release an equivalent performance card with a different SKU, priced lower. The 7800GT may stay at $260 or so, just like the 6800GT is still hovering in the upper 200s. But an equivalent card, the 6800GS, is $100 less. I expect a cheaper to make 90nm part, clocked higher, with fewer (16?) pipes. For $200 or less. By Q2, 2006. And if ATI is still targeting the 6600GT rather than the 7800GT as competition for the X1700, they'll wind up with more unsold cores than their current stock of X800s.

Unlike you, I don't expect the 7800GT and x850xt to remain 'high end' cards that justify wallet diarrhea level pricing for more than a few weeks. X850XTs have already moved to the low $200 pricepoint, at multiple etailers. The 7800GT is still justifying a $60-ish premium due to SM3.0, but not for long.

The mainstream video card segment is just too large and too competitive to stay stagnent for as long as it has.

 

[shooterm]

Originally posted by: v8envy

The mainstream video card segment is just too large and too competitive to stay stagnent for as long as it has.

I agree, I bought a 9700 over a year ago brand new off ebay for $50. I don't want to pay $125 to $150 for a 20-30% gain. I would pay about $90 or less for that.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: v8envy
I think we're actually on the same page.

That's why I said 7800GT equivalent. Just like with the 6800GT, I expect NVidia to release an equivalent performance card with a different SKU, priced lower. The 7800GT may stay at $260 or so, just like the 6800GT is still hovering in the upper 200s. But an equivalent card, the 6800GS, is $100 less. I expect a cheaper to make 90nm part, clocked higher, with fewer (16?) pipes. For $200 or less. By Q2, 2006. And if ATI is still targeting the 6600GT rather than the 7800GT as competition for the X1700, they'll wind up with more unsold cores than their current stock of X800s.

Unlike you, I don't expect the 7800GT and x850xt to remain 'high end' cards that justify wallet diarrhea level pricing for more than a few weeks. X850XTs have already moved to the low $200 pricepoint, at multiple etailers. The 7800GT is still justifying a $60-ish premium due to SM3.0, but not for long.

The mainstream video card segment is just too large and too competitive to stay stagnent for as long as it has.

I expect the X1700 line to taget somewhere around the 6800 GS to 7800 GS level, lower then 7800 GT and X1800 XL for sure, but higher then 6800 GS or 6800 GT at least.

 

[Sunrise089]

Originally posted by: munky
For the most part, the cheapest 7800gt I've seen without any limited-time rebate is ~$280. I doubt it will go down to $200 any time soon, because it's still a high end card, and just like the 6800gt, those cards tend to hold their price for a long time after it initially settles to what the market dictates. The 7900gt may push it down to about $250, but that's as low as I can see it going. At any rate, the 7800gt is not far ahead of the x850xt, so a $200 x1700xt with comparable performance would be a hard deal to beat unless Nv has something better with the midrange 7600gt.

Right, I own a 7800GT, so obviousely I like the card, but we all know most "GTO^2 vs 7800GT" posts normally end up mentioning the nvidia card's feature set as a key point. If the ATi card was $75+ cheaper and offered all of the tech I think it would sell very well - remember, many users are very resolution limited by their smaller LCDs, for people who only game at 1280x1024 and upgrade pretty often a 7800gt might not be worth the $75.

 

[Munky]

Let's clear up some thing I've said earlier:

1. Despite the 7800gt being a high end card, it does not mean it will always perform as a high end card. But, just like the 6800gt, it started out as a high end card, and that's why I dont see it's price dropping to $200 anytime soon. True, the x850xt is going for $200 (after rebate) but it's a whole generation older than the 7800gt. Same thing for the gto(2).

2. The competition to the 6600gt is the x1600. If the x1700 turns out as fast as the x850xt, and goes for low $200 price range, its competition will be either the 7600gt or the 7800gs (or something similar). IMO, the technology and the hardware requirements of games have progressd enough to where a 256-bit bus would be necessary on a midrange card. The 6800gs and the gto both have a 256-bit bus, and while they are derivatives of high end products, I also expect the x1700 will be a derivative of the r580, so it's very possible it will have a 256-bit bus.