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Ford slams Toyota on hybrids.. Boo Hoo..

Analog

Lifer
Proud to be the world's first automaker to roll out a hybrid sport utility vehicle, Ford Motor Co. nurses dreams of selling tens of thousands of fuel-efficient, gas-electric vehicles by offering hybrid sedans and more SUVs.

But Ford faces shortages of crucial parts from components manufacturers -- which are longtime suppliers, and in some cases affiliates, of Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co., the leaders in hybrids.

Ford suspects it may be getting squeezed out by its Japanese rivals. With the fall launch of the gas-electric Mercury Mariner, Ford is tripling its hybrid SUV lineup over three years. But its transmission supplier, Aisin Seiki Co. Ltd., can boost deliveries by only 20 percent, to 24,000 transmissions annually.

"Aisin, which is minority-controlled by Toyota, has interesting shareholders they have to answer to," said Mary Ann Wright, director of Ford's hybrid programs research and advanced engineering.

"They have recently been awarded a significant piece of business, and what that has done is limit the number of engineers who can work on my program," Wright said.

For its future hybrids, Ford is scouting for domestic suppliers to reduce its reliance on Japanese firms whose first loyalties may lie elsewhere.

"We must be able to ramp up production and migrate the technology to more models, but we can't do that if the know-how resides abroad," said Phil Martens, Ford's group vice president for product creation.

Right now, hybrid expertise is still concentrated in Japan. Toyota and Honda, the biggest manufacturers of hybrids, have invested billions of dollars along with their affiliated suppliers to develop and build vehicles powered by both electric and gasoline motors.

But demand has surged beyond expectations, with U.S. hybrid sales climbing from fewer than 20 in 1999 to nearly 90,000 last year. All but 5,100 were Japanese brands.

The first U.S. automaker to put a hybrid on the market, Ford launched the gas-electric Escape SUV in 2004. It also is developing hybrid versions of the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans, and its Japanese affiliate Mazda is building a Tribute SUV.

Toyota, the leader in the fast-growing segment, sold more than 50,000 hybrids in the United States last year and expects to sell 600,000 early in the next decade.

Officials with Toyota, which owns 23 percent of Aisin, say the company has no desire or motive to limit hybrid component supplies to Ford or any other automaker.

"It's good for us, and good for the industry, not just Toyota, if hybrid technology expands and is more widely accepted," said Dennis Cuneo, senior vice president of Toyota Motor North America.

"We wouldn't stop any automaker, or hurt any competitor's program," he said. "We don't involve ourselves in Aisin's relationship with other automakers."

Aisin Seiki officials could not be reached for comment, but Japanese newspapers report that Aisin is obtaining big transmission orders from Toyota. http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/08/A01-272872.htm
 
this is what happens when you don't invest in R&D Ford and rely on others. Aisin is part owned by Toyota, who do you think they will give priority to first, duh!
 
Originally posted by: m2kewl
this is what happens when you don't invest in R&D Ford and rely on others. Aisin is part owned by Toyota, who do you think they will give priority to first, duh!

 
Originally posted by: Aharami
c'mon...there are enough bright minds in America....develop some in house!


But they want money....to which Ford doesn't want to spend. They want to use that money to build more plants in Mexico. :laugh:
 
Originally posted by: Chadder007
Originally posted by: Aharami
c'mon...there are enough bright minds in America....develop some in house!


But they want money....to which Ford doesn't want to spend. They want to use that money to build more plants in Mexico. :laugh:

Again, QFT.

Not really laughing as I'm watching automotive suppliers (including mine) move into new Mexican plants before the plaster even dries. Quite sickening if you ask me! 🙁

 
Um? To bad?

As others have said, no sh|t a company that is minority owned by Toyota is going to give Toyota precedence and just throw the left overs at everyone else.

Not to mention the Japanese have a reputation of building longterm relationships with their parts manufactorers whereas the big three do not.

Boo-hoo, I didn't do any R&D and now I'm fvcked because of it.

Hybrids are still just a financially unworkable bandaid to the problem. They might be better off missing this ship anyway.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Um? To bad?

As others have said, no sh|t a company that is minority owned by Toyota is going to give Toyota precedence and just throw the left overs at everyone else.

Not to mention the Japanese have a reputation of building longterm relationships with their parts manufactorers whereas the big three do not.

Boo-hoo, I didn't do any R&D and now I'm fvcked because of it.

Hybrids are still just a financially unworkable bandaid to the problem. They might be better off missing this ship anyway.


LOL....seems Honda hasn't learned either as they license their hybrid technology from Toyota! 😛

As to the bolded part, that might be true as the rest of the world isn't going to be buying hybrids (China, etc) and are continuing to use energy/oil at huge increasing rates. It does help to get the overall average mileage up, but it's a short term bandaid, as you have said. We need alternative energy in the worse way.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
LOL....seems Honda hasn't learned either as they license their hybrid technology from Toyota! 😛
where did you hear this?? as far as i know honda built theirs ground up.
 
Originally posted by: m2kewl
Originally posted by: Engineer
LOL....seems Honda hasn't learned either as they license their hybrid technology from Toyota! 😛
where did you hear this?? as far as i know honda built theirs ground up.

That may be the case now, but Honda used Toyota technology in their first generation hybrids (read in Automotive Engieering magazine a few years back). Will try to dig it up.

Edit: After searching a little, it does indeed seem that Honda now completely uses their own technology.

Ford and GM however, are leaching off of Toyota! 😉
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: m2kewl
Originally posted by: Engineer
LOL....seems Honda hasn't learned either as they license their hybrid technology from Toyota! 😛
where did you hear this?? as far as i know honda built theirs ground up.

That may be the case now, but Honda used Toyota technology in their first generation hybrids (read in Automotive Engieering magazine a few years back). Will try to dig it up.

Edit: After searching a little, it does indeed seem that Honda now completely uses their own technology.

Ford and GM however, are leaching off of Toyota! 😉

No Ford isn't other then using the same trans supplier. The manufactures often use 3rd pary trannies which are sometimes shared with a competitors although its usually the manual trannies.
 
The need to make a car run off poop. 30 MPG of poop. Imagine filling a 10 gallon tank! You can make the claim your car runs off of bullsh~t!

Oh, and if you get stuck out in the middle of nowhere with an empty tank all you have to do is drop drawers and squeeze out a few extra miles for your car.
 
<--- worked for Aisin on Ford Escape Hybrid project

and what Mary Anne is saying is very true. she's a total byatch by the way.

also, the supplier is Aisin AW, not Aisin Seiki
 
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