For what it worth, the other side.

[Lemon law]

Again from yahoo news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...8alkDypFZyURWWsz2s0NUE

Just try to walk a 1/4" in his shoes.

 

[Duwelon]

What's with all the anti-israeli sentiment lately? or isn't it new?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
What's with all the anti-israeli sentiment lately? or isn't it new?

Ever tried to be open minded for a change, or is that against your religion. Or maybe you just think the ten commands applies to only Christians and Jews.

In terms of--Got nothing to refute my awesome post with? You can always throw a pumpkin on my head and fill my clothes with hay! I *do* believe in God after all...

I only ask if God can believe in you. All pumpkins are extra cost options.

 

[ProfJohn]

Wow... no bias in that article at all. Not like they mentioned that the 1948 war was started by the Arabs who planned to wipe out the new Israeli state, or that many of the arabs who left Israel at that time were told they could return once the war was over, or that there really is no such thing as a Palestinian, or that the country of Palestine NEVER existed in the entire history of the world. Nope... no bias at all, just a bunch of poor people we should feel sorry for because they have spent 60+ years waging war against the Israelis.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Duwelon
What's with all the anti-israeli sentiment lately? or isn't it new?

Ever tried to be open minded for a change, or is that against your religion. Or maybe you just think the ten commands applies to only Christians and Jews.

In terms of--Got nothing to refute my awesome post with? You can always throw a pumpkin on my head and fill my clothes with hay! I *do* believe in God after all...

I only ask if God can believe in you. All pumpkins are extra cost options.

Wait... what?

Edit: What's with all the anti-israeli sentiment lately? or isn't it new?

 

[Duwelon]

List of Qassam rocket attacks

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Wow... no bias in that article at all. Not like they mentioned that the 1948 war was started by the Arabs who planned to wipe out the new Israeli state, or that many of the arabs who left Israel at that time were told they could return once the war was over, or that there really is no such thing as a Palestinian, or that the country of Palestine NEVER existed in the entire history of the world. Nope... no bias at all, just a bunch of poor people we should feel sorry for because they have spent 60+ years waging war against the Israelis.

Not entirely accurate. People who had been living in their homes for years found a group of people from other countries move to where they live, establish a majority of the population, get the U.N. to declare its a state, and that state declares its a "religious" state.
And the arabs living there were not told they could come back (iirc). And the arabs were discriminated against greatly by the Israeli government.
While the area of Palestine was not a state, it was a, for want of better word, colony of various powers for many years, the Ottoman empire, the British empire, etc. Many of the arabs hoped to finally get self determination in what they, rightfully, felt was their occupied land.
I am not coming down on the arab side, but they certainly do have a legitimate grievance.

 

[Lemon law]

I might point out to Non Prof John and Duwelon, that God in his infinite wisdom, has somehow forgotten to supply the ultimate victory to the Israelis. Perhaps on the principle that two wrongs never make a right. Maybe I cannot pretend to know the mind of God, but I cannot conceive of a just God who would give any credibility to the thoughts of Non Prof John or Duwelon. You can go with God or go with the devil, the choice is yours. The doctrine is that the same God has compassion for us all.

 

[StageLeft]

In a world where simpletons demand everything in black and white, good and evil, how dare you pretend that there are real actual humans who hold opposing views and that they may actually have some reason to hold them.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I might point out to Non Prof John and Duwelon, that God in his infinite wisdom, has somehow forgotten to supply the ultimate victory to the Israelis. Perhaps on the principle that two wrongs never make a right. Maybe I cannot pretend to know the mind of God, but I cannot conceive of a just God who would give any credibility to the thoughts of Non Prof John or Duwelon. You can go with God or go with the devil, the choice is yours. The doctrine is that the same God has compassion for us all.

If you wanted a philosphical debate, why did you start out by posting a news article?

 

[Lemon law]

Duwelon asks ---If you wanted a philosphical debate, why did you start out by posting a news article?

To some extent to show that there are more than one side to the story. But sadly I ended up smoking Duwelon out. And in the God test, you quite clearly flunked. No one asked you to open mouth, insert foot, but you just could not resist making a fool out of yourself. Somehow we expect it from Non Prof John, but why drag yourself to his level?

And in the God test, someone like techs who said---I am not coming down on the arab side, but they certainly do have a legitimate grievance.

At least techs is showing an ability to pass the God test by having a constant standard of right and wrong. Maybe I appear too pro Palestinian, truth be told I think all sides are wrong now, but as much as you deny it Dewelon, we must still ask the philosophical question, how do we get this conflict settled in a fair manner?

 

[Mail5398]

If I were the Isreali's, I would have just bombed them out of existence long ago. This new world we live in, you are never allowed to win.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
In a world where simpletons demand everything in black and white, good and evil, how dare you pretend that there are real actual humans who hold opposing views and that they may actually have some reason to hold them.

I don't give a **** why the KKK holds its views, neither should I feel the need to empathize with those who wage war against the west.

Empathy should be given to those seeking coexistence.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Duwelon asks ---If you wanted a philosphical debate, why did you start out by posting a news article?

To some extent to show that there are more than one side to the story. But sadly I ended up smoking Duwelon out. And in the God test, you quite clearly flunked. No one asked you to open mouth, insert foot, but you just could not resist making a fool out of yourself. Somehow we expect it from Non Prof John, but why drag yourself to his level?

And in the God test, someone like techs who said---I am not coming down on the arab side, but they certainly do have a legitimate grievance.

At least techs is showing an ability to pass the God test by having a constant standard of right and wrong. Maybe I appear too pro Palestinian, truth be told I think all sides are wrong now, but as much as you deny it Dewelon, we must still ask the philosophical question, how do we get this conflict settled in a fair manner?

Since you actually posted something at the end of your post that actually makes sense, I'll respond to that.

Israel is a country with a seat at the UN. "Palestine" isn't. That enough for you? Israel has the right to defend itself and it should destroy those threats as it sees fit. You posting a news article which is a sob story about a palestinian who's life has been ruined by Israel isn't fooling anyone that doesn't want to be fooled. Hamas, Hezbollah are not innocent by any means and deserve all the judgements they get from Israel, and then some.

I'm not really well versed on the whole Israel / Palestinian conflict but i'm currently reading "The History of Israel, from the rise of Zionism to our time" for basically the history of how the state came to be.

.,

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Wow... no bias in that article at all. Not like they mentioned that the 1948 war was started by the Arabs who planned to wipe out the new Israeli state, or that many of the arabs who left Israel at that time were told they could return once the war was over, or that there really is no such thing as a Palestinian, or that the country of Palestine NEVER existed in the entire history of the world. Nope... no bias at all, just a bunch of poor people we should feel sorry for because they have spent 60+ years waging war against the Israelis.

Much of this was found to be untrue by ISRAELI researchers. THe rest of it can be explained by the words of prominent ISRAELIS. David Ben Gurion and others flatly stated they needed to start wars because israel needed to expand.

You speak of bias, but you really should try to be objective about this nonsense. Sometimes both sides want something and both get it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Duwelon asks ---If you wanted a philosphical debate, why did you start out by posting a news article?

To some extent to show that there are more than one side to the story. But sadly I ended up smoking Duwelon out. And in the God test, you quite clearly flunked. No one asked you to open mouth, insert foot, but you just could not resist making a fool out of yourself. Somehow we expect it from Non Prof John, but why drag yourself to his level?

And in the God test, someone like techs who said---I am not coming down on the arab side, but they certainly do have a legitimate grievance.

At least techs is showing an ability to pass the God test by having a constant standard of right and wrong. Maybe I appear too pro Palestinian, truth be told I think all sides are wrong now, but as much as you deny it Dewelon, we must still ask the philosophical question, how do we get this conflict settled in a fair manner?

Since you actually posted something at the end of your post that actually makes sense, I'll respond to that.

Israel is a country with a seat at the UN. "Palestine" isn't. That enough for you? Israel has the right to defend itself and it should destroy those threats as it sees fit. You posting a news article which is a sob story about a palestinian who's life has been ruined by Israel isn't fooling anyone that doesn't want to be fooled. Hamas, Hezbollah are not innocent by any means and deserve all the judgements they get from Israel, and then some.

And not all Palestinians are members of terrorist organizations. Many of them are just as innocent of any wrongdoing as the Israelis getting killed by the terrorists, so what's with the one sided support of Israelis?

Like most things, this isn't a black and white issue and the quest for that kind of simplicity is doomed to fail. I will say that Hamas is an organization that the world would be better off without, but that doesn't mean that some of the people they claim to represent don't have legitimate complaints. Siding absolutely with the Israelis is just as dumb as take an absolute position against them...there are bad guys and good guys here, but real life isn't quite so clean cut as a video game.

I'm not really well versed on the whole Israel / Palestinian conflict but i'm currently reading "The History of Israel, from the rise of Zionism to our time" for basically the history of how the state came to be.

.,

Just for a change of pace, have you considered becoming informed and THEN opening your mouth? If you're going to take such an extreme position, following it with "but I don't really know what I'm talking about" makes you look pretty silly.

 

[Aimster]

Palestinians weren't the ones who invaded anyone... their neighbors came in and invaded them without a fight then the Jews

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Mail5398
If I were the Isreali's, I would have just bombed them out of existence long ago. This new world we live in, you are never allowed to win.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well Mail 5398, why don't you marry your idea to an action. There are after all American fee enterprising bucks to be made. Lets bring back the Nazi gas chambers so we can get the job done more humanely and without the need of indiscriminate and expensive bombs. Palestinians in, fertilizer and gold teeth out does have a certain industrial efficiency appeal. A final solution to the Palestinian question. Can I buy stock in your company? Or should I simply supply you with the Zyclon B?

What what, you are getting sqeemish here you wimp. Not quite ready to win on those terms when the road you set is so clear.

Maybe its time for you to rejoin the human race and realize that its not a matter of one side winning, its a matter of all sides winning in a fair settlement.

No added violence needed.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Duwelon asks ---If you wanted a philosphical debate, why did you start out by posting a news article?

To some extent to show that there are more than one side to the story. But sadly I ended up smoking Duwelon out. And in the God test, you quite clearly flunked. No one asked you to open mouth, insert foot, but you just could not resist making a fool out of yourself. Somehow we expect it from Non Prof John, but why drag yourself to his level?

And in the God test, someone like techs who said---I am not coming down on the arab side, but they certainly do have a legitimate grievance.

At least techs is showing an ability to pass the God test by having a constant standard of right and wrong. Maybe I appear too pro Palestinian, truth be told I think all sides are wrong now, but as much as you deny it Dewelon, we must still ask the philosophical question, how do we get this conflict settled in a fair manner?

Since you actually posted something at the end of your post that actually makes sense, I'll respond to that.

Israel is a country with a seat at the UN. "Palestine" isn't. That enough for you? Israel has the right to defend itself and it should destroy those threats as it sees fit. You posting a news article which is a sob story about a palestinian who's life has been ruined by Israel isn't fooling anyone that doesn't want to be fooled. Hamas, Hezbollah are not innocent by any means and deserve all the judgements they get from Israel, and then some.

And not all Palestinians are members of terrorist organizations. Many of them are just as innocent of any wrongdoing as the Israelis getting killed by the terrorists, so what's with the one sided support of Israelis?

Like most things, this isn't a black and white issue and the quest for that kind of simplicity is doomed to fail. I will say that Hamas is an organization that the world would be better off without, but that doesn't mean that some of the people they claim to represent don't have legitimate complaints. Siding absolutely with the Israelis is just as dumb as take an absolute position against them...there are bad guys and good guys here, but real life isn't quite so clean cut as a video game.

I'm not really well versed on the whole Israel / Palestinian conflict but i'm currently reading "The History of Israel, from the rise of Zionism to our time" for basically the history of how the state came to be.

.,

Just for a change of pace, have you considered becoming informed and THEN opening your mouth? If you're going to take such an extreme position, following it with "but I don't really know what I'm talking about" makes you look pretty silly.

Seriously, your "got to post!" attitude is getting old when you don't even stop for a second to actually respond to what I wrote short of hand picking one thing and ignoring the rest. You completely ignored what I wrote in another thread and went straight for the strawman routine which your doing again by essentially saying "he admits he doens't know jack!". Well I didn't admit that at all if you could simply comphrend english language in written form.

What did I say that wasn't true? What have you told me I don't already know?

Edit: What "extreme" position are referring to?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Duwelon asks ---If you wanted a philosphical debate, why did you start out by posting a news article?

To some extent to show that there are more than one side to the story. But sadly I ended up smoking Duwelon out. And in the God test, you quite clearly flunked. No one asked you to open mouth, insert foot, but you just could not resist making a fool out of yourself. Somehow we expect it from Non Prof John, but why drag yourself to his level?

And in the God test, someone like techs who said---I am not coming down on the arab side, but they certainly do have a legitimate grievance.

At least techs is showing an ability to pass the God test by having a constant standard of right and wrong. Maybe I appear too pro Palestinian, truth be told I think all sides are wrong now, but as much as you deny it Dewelon, we must still ask the philosophical question, how do we get this conflict settled in a fair manner?

Since you actually posted something at the end of your post that actually makes sense, I'll respond to that.

Israel is a country with a seat at the UN. "Palestine" isn't. That enough for you? Israel has the right to defend itself and it should destroy those threats as it sees fit. You posting a news article which is a sob story about a palestinian who's life has been ruined by Israel isn't fooling anyone that doesn't want to be fooled. Hamas, Hezbollah are not innocent by any means and deserve all the judgements they get from Israel, and then some.

And not all Palestinians are members of terrorist organizations. Many of them are just as innocent of any wrongdoing as the Israelis getting killed by the terrorists, so what's with the one sided support of Israelis?

Like most things, this isn't a black and white issue and the quest for that kind of simplicity is doomed to fail. I will say that Hamas is an organization that the world would be better off without, but that doesn't mean that some of the people they claim to represent don't have legitimate complaints. Siding absolutely with the Israelis is just as dumb as take an absolute position against them...there are bad guys and good guys here, but real life isn't quite so clean cut as a video game.

I'm not really well versed on the whole Israel / Palestinian conflict but i'm currently reading "The History of Israel, from the rise of Zionism to our time" for basically the history of how the state came to be.

.,

Just for a change of pace, have you considered becoming informed and THEN opening your mouth? If you're going to take such an extreme position, following it with "but I don't really know what I'm talking about" makes you look pretty silly.

Seriously, your "got to post!" attitude is getting old when you don't even stop for a second to actually respond to what I wrote short of hand picking one thing and ignoring the rest. You completely ignored what I wrote in another thread and went straight for the strawman routine which your doing again by essentially saying "he admits he doens't know jack!". Well I didn't admit that at all if you could simply comphrend english language in written form.

What did I say that wasn't true? What have you told me I don't already know?

Edit: What "extreme" position are referring to?

You said you're "not really well versed on the whole Israel / Palestinian conflict", so you can't really blame me for questioning why that isn't stopping you from pontificating about it.

The extreme position I'm referring to is this idea that Israel is absolutely right and the Palestinians are absolutely wrong, that all Palestinians are represented by Hamas and that Israel is right to do basically anything they please to all Palestinians in the name of self defense.

Personally, I think the situation is a lot more gray than it is black and white...and I think it's worth starting from the idea that there ARE two sides to this conflict, and our goal should be peace between those two sides, not advocating one side dominating the other.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You said you're "not really well versed on the whole Israel / Palestinian conflict", so you can't really blame me for questioning why that isn't stopping you from pontificating about it.

I'm a techy guy. As far as building/maintaining computers go for example, i know more than at least 99% of the world's population, as do most people on this forum i'm sure. I read news and have read stories about Israel / Palestine for awhile but I wouldn't call myself "well versed", at least not compared to my main compentencies. This still shouldn't give you a right to turn me into a strawman because of it unless you want to point out how utterly wrong I am...

Originally posted by: Rainsford
The extreme position I'm referring to is this idea that Israel is absolutely right and the Palestinians are absolutely wrong, that all Palestinians are represented by Hamas and that Israel is right to do basically anything they please to all Palestinians in the name of self defense.

Listen, sir, I never said anything of the sort. It's your warped comprehension of the english language that even put the idea into your head. All I said was that ISrael has the right to defend itself, not that it's above the laws of morality and decency.

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Personally, I think the situation is a lot more gray than it is black and white...and I think it's worth starting from the fact that Israel was basically a country created from land that used to belong to other people.

ISrael and most middle eastern / european /asian countries, i'm sure.

 

[Vic]

And the right to defend oneself extends to other people besides just the Israelis. Where's the straw man?