For US citizens: International law vs. Constitution.

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Moonbeam's notion of The Creator's gift of rights aside, Your number one deals with both sovereignty and treaty. International laws, it seems to me, are valid to the extent we obligate ourselves to them via a treaty. Treaties that are agreed to under Constitutional provisions are, therefore, flowing from the Constitution and consistent with it. Your number two would be left to the final arbiter of that question, The SCOTUS. In order for a protection to be void a treaty must exist to enable that provision (assumes an international 'surrender' of a person) ergo, the protection is mitigated or made voidable by a decision by SCOTUS that the action IS Constitutional. Your number three is not something one can give up for another nor would it be wise to give a protection up for the sake of being a proper 'world' citizen but one could... it wouldn't be me.
I find the notion of this Creator and his gifting of Rights to be quite interesting and applicable only if the Creator is 'within' us. Assuming this Creator is God as we come to think of him/her and further assuming this God was manifest in the fellow Jesus, who spoke to heavenly pursuits and not earthly ones, I find that 'Rights' position or notion to be the desires of Man and not the expectation of God. Although, I do find the 'Divine Rights of Kings' to be more in line with my desires.
The folks back in '76 had to come up with a good argument to encourage folks to join their treasonous actions. Who better than God to bolster the cause.
Power determines Rights and enforces their existence, protection and elimination. There is no Right that cannot be terminated by the will of the Power that provides it or them. The Creator made laws, I'll agree. We call it physics and the like... Social Laws are created also by a Creator.. but he is us... We are the Creator and we say what it means and all the rest... The entity what created the Universe ain't among us... lest he is as Moonbeam might argue... within us..

But don't confuse terminating rights with eliminating them. Even monkeys know what is unfair and nothing can get that out of them. God IS within us and nothing can get Him out either. The thing I love about truth is that it is true regardless of people's opinion.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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But don't confuse terminating rights with eliminating them. Even monkeys know what is unfair and nothing can get that out of them. God IS within us and nothing can get Him out either. The thing I love about truth is that it is true regardless of people's opinion.

There's one character in the Bible I find very interesting, Pontius Pilate.

After being brought before him, Jesus said "everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

Pilate then says one of the most profound things I've ever read- "What is truth?" That one question touches on the reality of a great many things.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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6,715
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There's one character in the Bible I find very interesting, Pontius Pilate.

After being brought before him, Jesus said "everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

Pilate then says one of the most profound things I've ever read- "What is truth?" That one question touches on the reality of a great many things.

Yes, so many questions it raises. Typically, when I say people do or don't listen to me I mean the things I say or write because I am used to thinking of people as particular folk with this or that name.

But in the case of Jesus is he not the truth incarnate? Is he not saying I am the truth and those who know the truth know me?

And we also usually think of truth as something we can say, like the truth is this or that, but such a truth as I just described is not found in words but in a state of being. Jesus is the truth, he manifests the truth in everything he does and says, by the form and nature of his being. He is the living truth, what truth looks like when it resides in a man, perhaps.

So what Pilate, by his question says, it seems to me, is that he does not know Jesus' state of being. He is looking for a truth that can be said in words and is blind. That is how it seems to me. You do not know the truth, you become it via understanding. Truth is a state of being possible to those whose egos have died. That is why Jesus sought out the meek, in my opinion. They could let go of their egos. Their pretense is destroyed by suffering.

Pilate was an important person and the side he was on was the side of his self, his ego. That's what I think.