For those who think that Bush handled the economy badly...
- Thread starter XZeroII
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Besides not spending like crazy....
- Not move nearly unilaterally into Iraq (infinite amount of cash going there now for an undetermined amount of time).
- Tax cuts for people who spend money rather then people who have more money then they can possibly spend (larger middle class breaks, far smaller cuts for the richest 1%)
- Medicare bill that actually does something other then ridiculously tying the hands of our Government to get cheaper prescription drugs and banning the importation of the same safe drugs from Canada at a far cheaper price, which would result in keeping more money in the pockets of U.S. citizens.
- AND THE BIGGY; move to slow/stop the outsourcing of jobs to 3rd world countries. Our trade policy has to be altered.
- Not move nearly unilaterally into Iraq (infinite amount of cash going there now for an undetermined amount of time).
- Tax cuts for people who spend money rather then people who have more money then they can possibly spend (larger middle class breaks, far smaller cuts for the richest 1%)
- Medicare bill that actually does something other then ridiculously tying the hands of our Government to get cheaper prescription drugs and banning the importation of the same safe drugs from Canada at a far cheaper price, which would result in keeping more money in the pockets of U.S. citizens.
- AND THE BIGGY; move to slow/stop the outsourcing of jobs to 3rd world countries. Our trade policy has to be altered.
Agree with DanJ but, to be honest, I'd have kept taxes where they were before the cuts. Bush was trying to stimulate an economy that was greatly affected by the trickle down effect from the dot-com bust. He was pissing into the ocean.
Reducing wasteful spending and keeping taxes as they were (Clinton managed over $200billion in budget surplus his last year in office, something was working that Bush broke.)
Reducing wasteful spending and keeping taxes as they were (Clinton managed over $200billion in budget surplus his last year in office, something was working that Bush broke.)
i dont see the relation between the war in iraq and the economy, but anyways. the reason we dont import drugs from other countries is because the government cant gaurantee their safety. they are protecting americans by allowing them to buy what is known to be safe.
that something was the dot com boom so i guess your saying bush is responsible for the dot com bust??
so to help the economy you would raise taxes?
Yea, and last I checked the Government having a projected surplus is a prime example of the fact we were being over taxed.
I can't imagine those who think Bush handled the economy badly even thinking they have a leg to stand on now at all.
I can't imagine those who think Bush handled the economy badly even thinking they have a leg to stand on now at all.
Originally posted by: josphII
that something was the dot com boom so i guess your saying bush is responsible for the dot com bust??
so to help the economy you would raise taxes?
No, Clinton was not responsible for the dot-com boom anymore than Bush is responsible for the bust. Raising/lowering taxes will have some benefit depending on the shape of the economy but fiscal restraint will keep the nation's deficit from spiraling further out of control.
As for the economy, it's hard to say what will trigger a long-lasting boom like we had recently. Many white-collar professional jobs are gone and those that remain are at lower salaries. Our country is in the middle of a bit of a reality check, post dot-com boom.
"Long-lasting boom" only lasted 4-5 years. And it was a time where americans racked up record consumer debt, companies cooked books by hundreds of billions of dollars total, and 1000s of companies with no buisness plans fleeced americans out of trillions.
The "long lasting boom" the dot com era brought WILL NEVER happen again. It wasn't a boom time because it was artificially inflated, by stupid people. I dont want another boom like the dot com boom. Greenspan was right about it. And its hilarious that all those pople bashed him for the words "irrational exuberance". Greenspan had the dot com boom pegged and no one wanted to listen.
If you're going to make an attempt at spewing facts at least get the timing of said facts closer to the correct timeline. People have only gotten into record debt over the last 3 years and especially the last year.
I've posted those reports stating these facts in many threads all along.
Yes, the middle class did get a tax break (in theory, though my tuition to a state college has increased at a rate that far exceeds any tax incentive given to me since the Bush admin), but the fact is that the majority of the tax breaks went to the most wealthy in the country. If you give the majority of the tax break to the majority of the nation's populus the economy will obviously be in better shape. I don't buy trickle down economics.
Just to play devil's advocate, since you only touched on the Canada issue of the medicare policy, how would allowing our government to negotiate lower drug prices with drug companies do anything but help the economy? Every industry I can think of allows for price negotiation through buying power...
As for the altering trade. Canada is not a 3rd world country; they have standards, thats what I'm talking about (not just trade, trade's fine if done right). Outsourcing everything to 3rd world countries where their is zero in living conditions and essentially outsourced slave labor should not be a trade policy of the richest, most powerful country in the world. If U.S. companies weren't allowed to pay laborer's pennies an hour overseas maybe they wouldn't remove a good portion of their jobs here.
.
In the late '90s americans did rack up record consumer debt. They set a new record in the last three years as well. Consumer debt DOUBLED during the '90s.
As far as I can tell, FDA approval has almost nothing to do with drug safety. I would not be surprised at all to find you are much safer importing the cheap Canadian drugs.
Well, I'd rather have my children not paying off something that happened during my lifetime rather then paying off something that happened over my lifetime. While balancing a budget is ideal, a surplus is a better thing than a deficit.
We are still in the bubble - it hasn't burst yet. Irrational exuberance is still in full effect.
Most people just refuse to see it. Watch out when they finally do.
Hmm....I was under the impression that we were under an economic boom for over 15 years, starting around 1982. Perhaps I was a bit ambiguous in my statement.
I knew the dot-com bubble would burst, too. I kept telling everyone I knew who was heavily invested in tech stocks to start dumping in '98 and by '99 I was screaming at them.
eBay had a P/E ratio of ~11,000 at one point! :Q
And it's not getting any better. Record home foreclosures in 2003 in Ohio, Indiana and South Caroline. Personal bankruptcies are soaring, as well.
We are NOT in a recovery.
Foreclosures are more than likely the result of people over extending their budgets especially those who did very well in the IT surge, if they had bought sensibly chances are even with a large pay cut they could maintain their house...same thing with bankruptcy...too many living off credit or check to check, maybe this will help to ground some people.
Hmm...well...from my personal experience and that of a few others I know, you are forgetting one major point, extended bouts of unemployment. 7 months without a job wreaks havoc on savings and credit, regardless of what job/pay rate is eventually found.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
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Yes, the credit problem is the result of people buying what they couldn't afford and being to short sighted to see the economy wasn't going to skyrocket forever. Also, its no longer looked down upon as much to have unpaid bills. Everyone is more concerned with 'Keeping up with the Joneses" even if drives them to chapter 11. Its not Clinton or Bush's fault, its stupid people with no money planning skills fault. (Although I think Bush has done a poor job of alleviating the problem, but I acknowledge he has some what limited power of the economy) They overextended themselves when things were good under the false assumption they were only going to get better, and now that things are worse they're totally funked.
That's quite a generalization to make re:the context of today's high bankruptcy and foreclosure rates. I know a few people who were far from wanting to keep up with the Joneses (including myself) who were forced into it due to unemployment.
BTW, Ch. 11 is for corporations. Chs. 7 and 13 are for personal bankruptcies.
More and more For Sale signs going up in my own subdivision. 3 More just went up this weekend.
I haven't gone out and counted yet but looks like out of the 89 homes in here and there were around 10 for sale it is now at least doubled that.
Yes, people were waiting for Spring but this adds to the Homes that were already up for Sale.
Two families I personally know where they have their kids with children and both parents work moving back into their home because they cannot make ends meet.
But CAD & Co will continue to swear that Job wages are increasing.
They will continue to swear that we are not even in a Recession.
They will continue to call it a "Jobless Recovery" that has now reached a record 44 months.
We were doing better coming up with pure job count back in the 1929 Depression and yet they still say that this is not a Depression and not even a Recession but have the Gall to call this "Booming and Soaring" Economy.
It's beyond disgusting and beyond an insult to the millions of Americans that have lost their jobs, their homes and their lives.
This will come back and bite the Have's on the A$$.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
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Obviously best laid plans don't always work out. I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. But I think the increased occurance of personal bankruptcy in general is a result of people overstretching themselves. Don't tell me every family I see driving a new 30,000 SUV needs that thing? Those things drink gas and have high insurance on top of their pricetag...they're a drain on a family. Why buy them if not for a status symbol? Thats just one example I can think of, because there seems to be a god aweful lot more of those than there were a few years ago when people bought minivans and wagons.
PS: I always forget that chapter 11 thing.
PS: I always forget that chapter 11 thing.
Did any of you watch 60 Minutes last night? American drugs and Canadian drugs are usually exactly the same. They come from the same factories and wholesalers. The only difference is price. Canada regulates drug prices. The U.S. does not. In the new Medicare bill, the U.S. prohibits the government from negotiating lower drug prices. The only reason is to increase drug company profits. We are being ripped off.
PingSpike
Lifer
- Feb 25, 2004
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That was how I understood it. I don't understand how jobs are going to go to Canada from here when the drugs are already being produced HERE anyway. Its re-importation of drugs really. Considering my father takes a medicine to help shrink a tumor growing by his optic nerve that costs $600 a bottle I would like to see the prices as low as possible. (Thank god my father has insurance, something a lot of Americas are forgoing lately.)
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