For those who disagree with how the Bin Laden affair was handled...

[Hayabusa Rider]

Let's assume you were in charge. You know where Bin Laden is, or you are fairly certain, enough to engage in an op.


This isn't a situation in a vacuum, so here are your constraints. You cannot move him by diplomatic means. You cannot force others to take action. Commitment to getting OBL alive will most likely result in failure. Bin Laden is a proven menace still connected to Al Qaeda and there is no reason that he's not actively involved planning terrorist attacks.

What do you do? Do you pretend he isn't there or do you take action? The ISI doesn't care about international opinion. He continues on as he has or he is eliminated by us. If you insist on live removal the team will most likely die and our failure worsens the situation incalculably.

What isn't relevant to this question:

US history- Bringing up past events. Don't even bother. It doesn't answer the question.

9/11- Revenge or justice or whatever you think it is doesn't matter. I am purposefully considering the threat that Bin Laden currently poses. "He deserved it" is also completely irrelevant.

Principles of conscience- You do not have that luxury of doing anything other than what you rationally consider best for the US, not soothing your ego.

You are faced with acting or not. Given the constraints the world places upon you, what do you do and how do you justify your actions to the American public, who you are answerable to?

Go.

 

[UberNeuman]

Take him out.

I know I'm not one of those who have disagreed with the approach President Obama has taken...


\i now also realize the question wasn't pointed at myself....
\\sorry, Hay...

 

[MotF Bane]

Take him out.

This.

 

[Infohawk]

Begin an international public hearing on the matter in which the first two days are dedicated to delving into the past foreign policy mistakes of the United States. After five days of deliberation the hearing recommendation would be forwarded to the UN General Assembly for a vote. The Pakistanis would then be charged with enforcing the mandate of the UN.

But otherwise I would do the same thing as Obama except maybe try to take him alive if Obama didn't actually do that.

 

[jackstar7]

Take him

President Bartlett approves.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Begin an international public hearing on the matter in which the first two days are dedicated to delving into the past foreign policy mistakes of the United States. After five days of deliberation the hearing recommendation would be forwarded to the UN General Assembly for a vote. The Pakistanis would then be charged with enforcing the mandate of the UN.

But otherwise I would do the same thing as Obama except maybe try to take him alive if Obama didn't actually do that.

Sadly, now that we discover he was unarmed, the world will demand we should have done exactly this. Shame on America. Death to America.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sadly, now that we discover he was unarmed, the world will demand we should have done exactly this. Shame on America. Death to America.

So you would do nothing? Remember that your chances of getting him out alive are nil.

 

[Axon]

Sometimes, you've got to just make a move. Life is like dealing with women or semi-professional football in South America - anything can happen, and if you sit around waiting on some fat guys to make a decision, you might get shot in a bar over an auto-goal.

 

[Lemon law]

The defect in the Haybausa logic is simply in saying, "So you would do nothing? Remember that your chances of getting him out alive are nil."

Its not me but the rest of the world who will likely conclude, given the fact Osama was unarmed has to mean getting Osama out alive were slam dunk easy given the circumstances.

Then we have to ask to what choir Hayabusa is trying to preach to? As an American I would prefer to agree with you, but in the Muslim and European Community your message likely goes over like a lead balloon.

 

[Infohawk]

As an American I would prefer to agree with you, but in the Muslim and European Community your message likely goes over like a lead balloon.

Why do you think you have your hand on the pulse of the European country? They differed on Iraq but they basically have the same policies as US on all other Islamic issues. I don't think they're worried at all about the US shooting OBL in the head.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The defect in the Haybausa logic is simply in saying, "So you would do nothing? Remember that your chances of getting him out alive are nil."

Its not me but the rest of the world who will likely conclude, given the fact Osama was unarmed has to mean getting Osama out alive were slam dunk easy given the circumstances.

Then we have to ask to what choir Hayabusa is trying to preach to? As an American I would prefer to agree with you, but in the Muslim and European Community your message likely goes over like a lead balloon.

Anyone who thinks that flying into an ISI occupied section of a city to remove Bin Laden could ever be a slam dunk would be a fool and is therefore not to be taken seriously. I suggest they stick to video games where they just start again when killed by an enemy. Evidently hubris isn't restricted to those who dreamed up Iraq.

 

[Sunrise089]

Commitment to getting OBL alive will most likely result in failure.

Actual course of events:

1) Land assault team.
2) Kill people, fight way into inner sanctum.
3) Shoot unarmed OBL.
4) Leave via helicopter.

I contend the following would have been doable.

1) Land assault team.
2) Kill people, fight way into inner sanctum.
3) DO NOT shoot unarmed OBL.
3.5) Have trained commandos in top physical condition drag middle age and in poor health OBL with them, knock him unconscious if needed.
4) Leave via helicopter.

Contingency plan if things go wrong and we're worried about him getting away - shoot him then.

 

[Siddhartha]

I have read a couple of times on this forum that going after Osama was an effort to divert attention away from the economy. So would these people have preferred that Mr Obama had not gone after Osama?

 

[dali71]

I have read a couple of times on this forum that going after Osama was an effort to divert attention away from the economy. So would these people have preferred that Mr Obama had not gone after Osama?

I'm happy that Obama authorized this action, but anyone who thinks that he will be re-elected solely based on this is foolish. People have short memories for things like this when they're getting hammered on a daily basis by a shitty economy.

 

[WildHorse]

Let's assume you were in charge. You know where Bin Laden is, or you are fairly certain, enough to engage in an op.

<cut>

What isn't relevant to this question:

US history- Bringing up past events. Don't even bother. It doesn't answer the question.

9/11- Revenge or justice or whatever you think it is doesn't matter. I am purposefully considering the threat that Bin Laden currently poses. "He deserved it" is also completely irrelevant.

<cut>

Go.

Well remember, despite your trusted media STRIDENTLY repeating over & over & over & over . . . (nonterminating process) that he was behind 911,

in reality there is NO credible evidence he nor his organization nor his money nor his influence had any SHRED of connection to 911.

The USA populace is eagerly swallowing the incessantly droned-into-your-skull spin the media reiterates in EVERY message about him, forgetting about ever showing that to be true in the first place. (it's been said a million times so it bust be true? Bull shit logic 101).

David Ray Griffin has satisfied a hypercritical me that the preponderance of evidence points at Dick Cheny & whatever PNAC secret cabal he was participant in, as THEEEEE true masterminds who Originated the concept, Planned the project, and Managed execution to project completion (irregsardless of whatever external agencies (Mossad? Saudi Arabians? who the hell will ever truly know) got their hands dirty, and anyway to HELL with >3000 innocent lives, the Ends justified the Means. IN THEIR INSANE TWISTY MINDS.

Those mentally ill monsters! HOME GROWN, IT WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!! They OPENLY PUBLISHED their idea for "American "hegemony" and "full-spectrum" dominance" of this entire planet. MONSTERS!!!!!

911 was ABSOLUTELY an inside job, Dick Chey at the helm, with the other looneys who signed onto the PNAC insanity he rabidly lived. Their names are in the 1st link in my other post below. God DAMNED monsterously evil Dick Cheny and the men in the shadows behind him hell bent years ahead of 911 who openly plotted taking the USA to war, shoving it down the USA citizens' throats with their INTENDED "new Pearl Harbor." God DAMNED Dick CHeny & his posse. (The insane ultra righties & still MORE insane grow-government-till-we-die lefties)

HERE IS THE TRUE STORY ON 911

 

[OutHouse]

Killing him was the only solution. Dumping his carcus at sea closed the book and ended it. Killing him up close and personable in his own bed sent a crystal clear message

 

[OutHouse]

Well remember, other than the media STRIDENTLY repeating over & over & over &over . . . (nonterminating process) that he was behins the 911,

in reality there is N credible evidence he nor his organization nor his money nor his influence had any SHRED of connection to 911.


The masses are buying that because, it seems to me, the media reiterate that in EVERY message about him, forgetting about ever showing that to be true in the first place.

911 was ABSOLUTELY an inside job, Dick Chey at the helm, all others under the PNAC insanity he rabidly lived. God DAMNED monsterously evil Dick Cheny and the men in the shadows behind him hell bent long ahead of 911 who openly plotted taking thre USA to war, shoving it down the USA citizens' throats with their INTENDED "new Pearl Harbor." God DAMNED Dick CHeny & his posse. (The insane ultra righties & still MORRE insane grow government till you die lefties)

HERE IS THE TRUE STORY ON 911

Holy shit you are crazy

 

[sportage]

I might agree about Obama and 2012...IF... there were one, just one plausible republican running. And there is not. So there u go...
As to Bin Laden, YES, people will remember. For a long long time. At least as long as we remember 9/11.
And BTW... give Obama the credit he deserves. He chose to take OBL out. Obama made the final decision. For all we know, there may have been many times during GW Bush admin when they knew of OBL's where a-bouts, and GW decided NOT to take OBL out, due to the overall risk. That info truly would have NOT been released to the media/public. And after all, GW was busy in Iraq going after Sadam. Remember?

This is Obama's win. And whatever anyone says, or try to twist, or gloss over, they know GD dam well this success at taking out OBL was Obama's doing. Every one of these big mouth self serving dam piss worms know Obama deserves the credit in finalizing this shared OBL nightmare.

 

[B00ne]

It is always easy to point out better ways of doing things - afterwards. And if the other way was actually better would still be speculation only.

There is just one thing that could have been done better, where the result of that better way was obvious before going that route: The little detail of Osama being unarmed, should not have been made public.

But yes, in a perfect world it would have been a nice display of superior (western) morals, if Osama had gotten a trial and was hanged after that. (like Nuremburg)

 

[WildHorse]

Let's assume you were in charge. <cut>

I AM in charge...didn't you get the memo?

 

[WildHorse]

Holy shit you are crazy

Or, maybe you're among the well-intentioned but, alas! gullible ones who bought it due to MASSIVE repetition, although it was NEVER factually supported.

Please read me sir

Me to

 

[Vette73]

Yep the military wanted to carpet bomb the area. Obama said no for 2 big reasons. 1 was killing a lot of innocent people and the 2nd was we need proof he was there and is dead.


Hell we got pictures, video, and DNA and people still think it was fake. Look how nuts people like WildHor are with 9/11 even though evidance says they are nuts.

 

[Monster_Munch]

Why do you think you have your hand on the pulse of the European country? They differed on Iraq but they basically have the same policies as US on all other Islamic issues. I don't think they're worried at all about the US shooting OBL in the head.

I'm pretty sure anyone who lived through the London or Madrid bombings would have been happy to pull the trigger for you.

 

[M0RPH]

If you insist on live removal the team will most likely die and our failure worsens the situation incalculably.

If you ask the question then don't make these silly arbitrary conditions trying to get us to give the answer you're looking for.

Truth is there's no reason he could not have been taken alive if they wanted to.

 

[Hacp]

Same thing except make sure there were no eye witnesses.